Author Topic: Virgin Galactic and SpaceShipTwo Master Thread (1) (Read 255431 times)

aquarius · « **Reply #260 on:** 10/28/2010 06:26 pm »

Quote from: mrmandias on 10/26/2010 08:56 pm

Virgin Galactic has decided that orbital is in their future and is looking into a partnership with a current orbital provider:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=space&id=news/asd/2010/10/26/02.xml&headline=Virgin%20Galactic%20Eyes%20NASA%20Commercial%20Crew%20Program

"There's about four companies that are seriously looking at [CCDev Phase 2]," Branson said in an interview with AVIATION WEEK.

I guess he means Boeing, Sierra Nevada and SpaceX, but which company is the fourth one?

Thanks.

Lars_J · « **Reply #261 on:** 10/28/2010 06:28 pm »

Quote from: aquarius on 10/28/2010 06:26 pm

I guess he means Boeing, Sierra Nevada and SpaceX, but which company is the fourth one?

Orbital, I would presume.

pathfinder_01 · « **Reply #262 on:** 10/28/2010 07:46 pm »

Quote from: Lars_J on 10/28/2010 06:28 pm

Quote from: aquarius on 10/28/2010 06:26 pm
I guess he means Boeing, Sierra Nevada and SpaceX, but which company is the fourth one?

Orbital, I would presume.

Orbital wants to launch crew but got no cash in the last commercial crew round. Blue Origin also wants to launch crew and got funded last round.

Malderi · « **Reply #263 on:** 10/28/2010 08:25 pm »

Don't forget Lockheed.

beancounter · « **Reply #264 on:** 10/29/2010 05:08 am »

and SpaceDev.

beancounter · « **Reply #265 on:** 10/29/2010 05:12 am »

Sorry my bad. Forgot SpaceDev was SN.

beancounter · « **Reply #266 on:** 10/29/2010 05:16 am »

Test summary is up for the 2 glide of SS2:

Combined Flight Test Legend: CC = Captive Carry
L = Launch
G = Glide
P = Powered

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flight: WK2 Flight 44 / GF02
Date: 28 Oct 10 Flight Time: 10 min, 51 sec
WK2 Pilot: Siebold WK2 CoPilot: Nichols WK2 FTE: Tighe
SS2 Pilot: Stucky SS2 CoPilot: Alsbury
GS Crew: Binnie, Kalogiannis, Persall, Knupp, Inks, Bassett, Cassebeer, Story

Objectives:
Clean release
Evaluate stability and control
Expand flutter envelope
Roll evaluation
Land

Results:
All objectives achieved. Flew to more aggressive stall indication. Evaluated handling and stability through several maneuvers. Expanded envelope to 230 KTAS and 3g's. Roll evaluation. Full stop landing.

mr. mark · « **Reply #267 on:** 10/29/2010 08:31 pm »

If Dreamchaser can land at Spaceport America, it would make more sense to go with them. Of course then you have the problem of shipping Dreamchaser back to the cape. Guess the only practical way that Dreamchaser can be used is to land back in Florida. Of course, then why build out Spaceport America? You can see the problem. Not sure if that would work or be practical. If that's the case maybe Spacex would be a good choice. Dragon could land near Spaceport America in a land based landing and then be shipped by truck to Hawthorne, California.

yg1968 · « **Reply #268 on:** 10/29/2010 09:48 pm »

Couldn't Dream Chaser land on the Shuttle runway in Florida? If it lifts-off from Florida, it probably makes more sense for it to land back in Florida.

Virgin Galactic rents Space Port America but it doesn't actually own it. The money for the 21st century complex is meant to be used for Florida. So a lot of the improvements necessary for commercial crew will be paid by NASA. So there are incentives for companies to locate their commercial crew installations in Florida.

mr. mark · « **Reply #269 on:** 10/29/2010 10:33 pm »

Yes, but, then what the point of Spaceport America. You see the problem. There is no point to grow Spaceport America into orbital capacity if Dreamchaser lands in Florida. It truly presents a problem. You can't launch it on a rocket such as a Delta from New Mexico because of staging issues over land. So this is a big problem with Dreamchaser and Spaceport America. It's not really well thought out. The only thing that makes sense for Virgin Galactic is to have a two spaceport approach one for orbital and one for suborbital. This is one heck of a mess. So that's why I said it makes more sense to go with Spacex's Dragon. You can land near Spaceport America and then ship the capsule by truck to California.

Lars_J · « **Reply #270 on:** 10/29/2010 10:40 pm »

No, spaceport america only makes sense for suborbital spaceflight, I think.

What would be the benefit of landing a Dragon (to use the example) or there, when it doesn't depart from there? No benefit at all.

The only chance that it will see orbital traffic is if Scaled/Virgin produces an air launched orbital space-plane.

mmeijeri · « **Reply #271 on:** 10/29/2010 10:43 pm »

Why is this a mess? Isn't CCAFS an impractical location for a (hopefully) high-traffic commercial suborbital spaceport (airfield if you will)?

A_M_Swallow · « **Reply #272 on:** 10/29/2010 10:56 pm »

Quote from: mr. mark on 10/29/2010 08:31 pm

If Dreamchaser can land at Spaceport America, it would make more sense to go with them. Of course then you have the problem of shipping Dreamchaser back to the cape. Guess the only practical way that Dreamchaser can be used is to land back in Florida. Of course, then why build out Spaceport America? You can see the problem. Not sure if that would work or be practical. If that's the case maybe Spacex would be a good choice. Dragon could land near Spaceport America in a land based landing and then be shipped by truck to Hawthorne, California.

The managers at Spaceport America need to ensure that at least one of the manned spaceships can land on a runway (or in the desert) after using its LAS to perform an abort. Otherwise their complex is a white elephant.

pathfinder_01 · « **Reply #273 on:** 10/29/2010 11:25 pm »

Quote from: A_M_Swallow on 10/29/2010 10:56 pm

The managers at Spaceport America need to ensure that at least one of the manned spaceships can land on a runway (or in the desert) after using its LAS to perform an abort. Otherwise their complex is a white elephant.

I am confused. If you launch from Florida and use an LAS you will likely wind up in the Atlantic. Unless they are doing horizontal takeoff no orbital craft will ever depart from spaceport America due to stage disposal issues (I.e. Dropping stages on the continental US). Space Port America is near (or in) White Sands New Mexico.

IMHO it is a little too early to debate who they will pair with. Yes Dream chaser could land there but it could also land at many places (It is designed to be able to land on a normal runway not a long one like the shuttle). Boeing so far plans to land the CST100 at White sands with Edwards as a backup.

As for Dream Chaser it depends on where they plan to process it. It looks small enough that you could ship it via rail or over sized truck. The CST100 and Dragon look like they could easily fit into a cargo plane. Spaceport America could be a good location for all these spacecraft to land. The capsules could be flown out easily and the space plane has a runway.

Cinder · « **Reply #274 on:** 10/29/2010 11:46 pm »

Quote from: mr. mark on 10/29/2010 10:33 pm

Yes, but, then what the point of Spaceport America.

Skylon is out of the question, right?

SpacexULA · « **Reply #275 on:** 10/30/2010 12:33 am »

Quote from: mr. mark on 10/29/2010 10:33 pm

Yes, but, then what the point of Spaceport America. You see the problem. There is no point to grow Spaceport America into orbital capacity if Dreamchaser lands in Florida. It truly presents a problem. You can't launch it on a rocket such as a Delta from New Mexico because of staging issues over land. So this is a big problem with Dreamchaser and Spaceport America. It's not really well thought out. The only thing that makes sense for Virgin Galactic is to have a two spaceport approach one for orbital and one for suborbital. This is one heck of a mess. So that's why I said it makes more sense to go with Spacex's Dragon. You can land near Spaceport America and then ship the capsule by truck to California.

Why even make it that complected? If you pay the multiple Million that an Orbital trip would take, why not provide your "astronaut training" at Space Port America, as graduation from training you go to space on Space Ship 2.

Then they fly you to Cape Canaveral on one of the Mother Ships (after you get to watch another class go of to space), where you get to land on the Shuttle Runway, and board an Atlas 5/Falcon 9 for a trip to a Leased Bigelow Aerospace Module, where you stay for 1 week, and return. They then pick you up from wherever you land in the mother ship again, and fly you back to the spaceport.

Robotbeat · « **Reply #276 on:** 10/30/2010 10:46 pm »

I should point out that even before horizontal flights are being done at Spaceport America, UP Aerospace has been doing vertical launches from Spaceport America of spaceplane prototypes for Lockheed Martin's flyback/rocketback reusable boosters. If Virgin is thinking about a similar system (or even just using Lockheed's systems), then there wouldn't be expended stages falling in the desert, the stages would go back and land on the runway.

By the way, I doubt SpaceShip3 will use hybrids. If suborbital tourism ends up being really popular where they might actually do multiple trips on a single day from a single spaceport, they will probably want all-liquids because of "gas-and-go" concept of operations, lower per-flight costs, and higher performance. IMHO.

Sparky · « **Reply #277 on:** 11/01/2010 06:46 am »

Quote from: Cinder on 10/29/2010 11:46 pm

Quote from: mr. mark on 10/29/2010 10:33 pm
Yes, but, then what the point of Spaceport America.
Skylon is out of the question, right?

Or resurrecting t/Space's CXV concept.

I wonder if Dream Chaser couldn't be launched in a similar fashion.

Cinder · « **Reply #278 on:** 11/01/2010 06:57 am »

Either would be really cool. Gary Hudson's talk at this SSI Space Mfg conference sounds most encouraging, from the notes available at the usual blogs.

Ronsmytheiii · « **Reply #279 on:** 11/01/2010 03:27 pm »

Quote from: Robotbeat on 10/30/2010 10:46 pm

UP Aerospace has been doing vertical launches from Spaceport America of spaceplane prototypes for Lockheed Martin's flyback/rocketback reusable boosters.

The prototype is nowhere near the size or energy of a real booster. The Army flew Bumper rockets out of White sands, but later had to move out to the Cape for higher performing rockets. The issue of overflight of population is even more relevant today.