Author Topic: Launches slip in new manifest  (Read 4205 times)


Offline Chris Bergin

RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #1 on: 03/23/2006 01:23 PM »
Screenshot of the new manifest, available on L2.

Offline Paul Adams

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RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #2 on: 03/23/2006 02:49 PM »
Question, under what circumstances would it be justified to launch a rescue shuttle if Discovery is stranded at the ISS? As far as I'm ware the main concern lies with the TPS being damaged by foam, but if this happens the foam issues obviously will not have been solved and launching a rescue shuttle could well result in two crews and two orbiters being stranded at the station.

Am I missing something?

Paul
It's all in the data.

Offline Chris Bergin

RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #3 on: 03/23/2006 03:24 PM »
Quote
Paul Adams - 23/3/2006  3:49 PM

Question, under what circumstances would it be justified to launch a rescue shuttle if Discovery is stranded at the ISS? As far as I'm ware the main concern lies with the TPS being damaged by foam, but if this happens the foam issues obviously will not have been solved and launching a rescue shuttle could well result in two crews and two orbiters being stranded at the station.

Am I missing something?

Paul

A valid question, Paul - even though the double ascent damage would be a horrible coincidence that doesn't bare thinking about....but it has been.

While on STS-300 stand-by for STS-114, Mark Kelly and Steve Lindsey addressed it in an interview we ran in the very early days of this site. I think they answer this in the best way (given the absolute answer is the risk would be there). Here are the quotes:

"If seven friends were up in space and needed to get home," Kelly said. "I'm willing to take a lot of risk to do that, and I understand that, and it's not a decision I will have to make later. I've already made that decision."
 
"It's a place where we don't want to go. We're training for a mission we never want to fly," said Lindsey. "I'll tell you what, if we aren't absolutely as confident as we possibly can be that we have fixed the tank, which is our primary rationale to go forward, then we have no business in launching."

Lindsey has promised his wife and three children if he senses anything unsafe for this mission or any other, "I'll walk, I won't fly."

"Hopefully, the probability is so low that we are just covering ourselves," said Wayne Hale.

"We are still going to fly with some risk," Hale added. "To characterize it otherwise would be inappropriate." If we had a catastrophic failure with Discovery, we'd need to figure out how to prevent that same problem from occurring on Atlantis."
 
"We have looked at that and it is a do-able thing but the margins are small. It's better to have a plan, than to not have one."
 
Kelly added: "I'm ready to do it and I figure probably in that one-month period, I wouldn't go home anymore, probably sleep in my office."

Short answer, Astronauts are brave, brave people.

Offline Paul Adams

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RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #4 on: 03/23/2006 04:15 PM »
Amazing comments: the right stuff indeed. Sad that it goes largely unnoticed today.

Paul
It's all in the data.

Offline STS-Chris

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RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #5 on: 03/23/2006 04:38 PM »
So if the new NET launch date of STS-118 is June 14, then is August 23 the new date for STS-120, isn't? And STS-122 on October 11 and so on...

Offline Justin Space

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RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #6 on: 03/23/2006 05:40 PM »
I know we're all aware astronauts are brave, but those quotes really say a lot. That was so cool to read.

Offline Flightstar

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RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #7 on: 03/23/2006 06:21 PM »
Quote
Paul Adams - 23/3/2006  9:49 AM

Question, under what circumstances would it be justified to launch a rescue shuttle if Discovery is stranded at the ISS? As far as I'm ware the main concern lies with the TPS being damaged by foam, but if this happens the foam issues obviously will not have been solved and launching a rescue shuttle could well result in two crews and two orbiters being stranded at the station.

Am I missing something?

Paul

Well the whole idea of a supporting rescue mission is from the results of the CAIB, although I keep being informed it wasn't a requirement of the CAIB report itself (Stafford/Covey).

Offline David AF

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RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #8 on: 03/23/2006 08:37 PM »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 23/3/2006  10:24 AM

A valid question, Paul - even though the double ascent damage would be a horrible coincidence that doesn't bare thinking about....but it has been.

While on STS-300 stand-by for STS-114, Mark Kelly and Steve Lindsey addressed it in an interview we ran in the very early days of this site. I think they answer this in the best way (given the absolute answer is the risk would be there). Here are the quotes:

"If seven friends were up in space and needed to get home," Kelly said. "I'm willing to take a lot of risk to do that, and I understand that, and it's not a decision I will have to make later. I've already made that decision."
 
"It's a place where we don't want to go. We're training for a mission we never want to fly," said Lindsey. "I'll tell you what, if we aren't absolutely as confident as we possibly can be that we have fixed the tank, which is our primary rationale to go forward, then we have no business in launching."

Lindsey has promised his wife and three children if he senses anything unsafe for this mission or any other, "I'll walk, I won't fly."

"Hopefully, the probability is so low that we are just covering ourselves," said Wayne Hale.

"We are still going to fly with some risk," Hale added. "To characterize it otherwise would be inappropriate." If we had a catastrophic failure with Discovery, we'd need to figure out how to prevent that same problem from occurring on Atlantis."
 
"We have looked at that and it is a do-able thing but the margins are small. It's better to have a plan, than to not have one."
 
Kelly added: "I'm ready to do it and I figure probably in that one-month period, I wouldn't go home anymore, probably sleep in my office."

Short answer, Astronauts are brave, brave people.

Best of the best.
F-22 Raptor instructor

Offline Orbiter Obvious

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RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #9 on: 03/23/2006 09:36 PM »
Will there be enough tanks to support the busy 2007?

Offline TheMadCap

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RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #10 on: 03/27/2006 03:08 PM »
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Orbiter Obvious - 23/3/2006  4:36 PM

Will there be enough tanks to support the busy 2007?

Someone had posted in a previous thread that they have 17 tanks in some degree of production. Anyone remember?
I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.

Newton

Offline James (Lockheed)

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RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #11 on: 03/27/2006 04:52 PM »
Yes, but that can be decieving by it not being 17 tanks on the factory floor, waiting for the finishing touches. It varies from full tanks being finished to the frabrication of intertanks etc.

Offline British NASA

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RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #12 on: 03/27/2006 05:35 PM »
Had to imagine what that would look like, on the factory floor. Any images anywhere?

Offline Chris Bergin

RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #13 on: 03/27/2006 07:21 PM »
I've got some images of MAF's factory floor, but it only shows one tank at a time. I'll see if I can get hold of some more.

Offline Flightstar

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RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #14 on: 03/28/2006 11:12 PM »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 27/3/2006  1:21 PM

I've got some images of MAF's factory floor, but it only shows one tank at a time. I'll see if I can get hold of some more.

I can't see to find any good long shots.

Online DaveS

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RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #15 on: 03/28/2006 11:21 PM »
Here's an page(although it is in french) with some good photos of ETs at MAF: http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/shuttle/sts/external_tank_chrono.htm
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Offline James (Lockheed)

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RE: Launches slip in new manifest
« Reply #16 on: 03/29/2006 02:53 AM »
Very good site with some excellent images.

http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/shuttle/sts/ET%20fabrication.jpg

You can see the mats which are used for TPS techs to walk on the foamed tank on the right hand side tank. That's been changed since ET-121.

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