Will Starchaser Industries launch their NOVA 4 rocketbooster this November?

[DiggyCoxwell]

   
I couldn't find any news update on the Starchaser Industries website,
but months ago I got hold of a monthly magazine issue of SPACEFLIGHT from BIS
which claims that Starchaser Industries intended to launch their full-size NOVA 4 rocket with capsule and escape tower from an isolated bay in England this November to basically test the escape-tower during full-power ascent of the
main booster.
Anyone know if it's going ahead this November?

[MKremer]

Unless they have some secret agreement with the UK gov't that surprisingly hasn't leaked yet, there would already be published reports about a space launch anywhere in the British Isles. That's mainly if they are doing secret flights the gov't won't allow them to publicize.

Otherwise, and more importantly, if this is a commercial concern, and they do have complete launch approval, they're total idiots if they haven't already publicized it as much as possible all over the place for the past several months.

I would bet that if you haven't heard or read anything already, nothing is happening.

[Ben the Space Brit]

Since 9/11 all actual Starchaser launches have been kept secret until the day of the launch.  I think that it is supposed to be some kind of security issue.  After all, the Starchaser-series boosters, especially the current Starchaser-4/NOVA could be modified to be a crude short-range ballistic missile; no one wants it known too much in advance where it will be when it is in a flyable condition.

Paranoid? Misdirected fear? Such is the national security midset of the UK.

[simonbp]

After all, the Starchaser-series boosters, especially the current Starchaser-4/NOVA could be modified to be a crude short-range ballistic missile

Ironically, it would be a better IRBM than the UK MoD ever developed (in that it's a responsive solid).

[DiggyCoxwell]

Since 9/11 all actual Starchaser launches have been kept secret until the day of the launch.  I think that it is supposed to be some kind of security issue.  After all, the Starchaser-series boosters, especially the current Starchaser-4/NOVA could be modified to be a crude short-range ballistic missile; no one wants it known too much in advance where it will be when it is in a flyable condition.

Paranoid? Misdirected fear? Such is the national security midset of the UK.

But they told British school-children last year that they would launch this November.
That's not being very forthright with potential investors if they
inform children but refuse to keep potential investors and volunteers
up-to-date.
I'm a potential investor and would be, if the company were a little more open about their planned launch manifest, and rocket and spacecraft 
development.
 Admittedly, Starchaser Industries is not fraudulent or deluded in its claims and plans as the X-Prize Da Vinci Project was, or the Encounter2001 project group as well...but a little more openness would help.

[Danderman]

I am unaware of Starchaser ever launching anything bigger than a model rocket.

[Ben the Space Brit]

I am unaware of Starchaser ever launching anything bigger than a model rocket.

You'd be almost right. 

However, their latest machine, the Starchaser-4 is about the size of the A4/V2.  It is, in fact, large enough that its payload, an instrument capsule called NOVA, can theoretically carry a single person if they had an extremely high tolerance for g-forces and a low regard for their own safety.  To my knowledge, there are two Starchaser-4s at this time; one has flown and the other has not.

A crewed version of the NOVA exists but I suspect is not yet legally flyable.  They are also working on a hybrid LAS engine and a liquid bipropellent engine, the Churchill.

Ultimately, Starchaser-4/NOVA is to be scaled up to the Starchaser-5/Thunderbird, which is a suborbital rocket originally designed for the X-Prize competition.

[Danderman]

You will note that I used the word "launch" in my post. I am aware of the many large mockups that Starchaser has exhibited over the years, but have seen no evidence of any launches of the larger vehicles.

[Ben the Space Brit]

You will note that I used the word "launch" in my post. I am aware of the many large mockups that Starchaser has exhibited over the years, but have seen no evidence of any launches of the larger vehicles.

The Starchaser-4 v1 flew about three or four years ago.

[Danderman]

You will note that I used the word "launch" in my post. I am aware of the many large mockups that Starchaser has exhibited over the years, but have seen no evidence of any launches of the larger vehicles.

The Starchaser-4 v1 flew about three or four years ago.

My understanding is that the Starchaser-4 that was launched was essentially a large model rocket equipped with 20 solid motors that flew to 5000 feet. Similar sized model rockets have been launched from the US, as well.

[ukrocketman]

You will note that I used the word "launch" in my post. I am aware of the many large mockups that Starchaser has exhibited over the years, but have seen no evidence of any launches of the larger vehicles.

The Starchaser-4 v1 flew about three or four years ago.

My understanding is that the Starchaser-4 that was launched was essentially a large model rocket equipped with 20 solid motors that flew to 5000 feet. Similar sized model rockets have been launched from the US, as well.

My understanding is, you are correct :-)

Similar sized model rockets have been launched from the UK too. Namely the Rocketmen's Top Gear Shuttle, and their Iris rocket.

[ukrocketman]

After all, the Starchaser-series boosters, especially the current Starchaser-4/NOVA could be modified to be a crude short-range ballistic missile

Ironically, it would be a better IRBM than the UK MoD ever developed (in that it's a responsive solid).

Actually not. It was, to the best of my knowledge, based on motors which I would hazard a guess were considerably less total impulse than say the English Electric Blue Water IRBM developed in the UK, but cancelled in 1962. I think the Blue Water used the Saluki solid rocket motor, which was test fired from the Aberporth firing range in West Wales.

There were also numerous professional solid rocket motors developed in the UK with considerably more total impulse, which could have fulfilled that role very well. They were test fired from Aberporth in West Wales, and Benbecula on South Uist in the Outer Hebrides in Scotland, for decades.

[DiggyCoxwell]

   I'll personally contact Starchaser Industries
by long-distance telephone or fax.
I'll let you know the outcome and latest info.
       
   Mind you, one-third of November is already over and nothing
on the net.
   

[JJ..]

Here's a link to a quick video of a Nova launch,



I do remember when Steve Bennet said he would be sitting at the top of the next one ;-)


JJ..

[Downix]

From inside the capsule:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8Yd5RyAT3Dk&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8Yd5RyAT3Dk&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[DiggyCoxwell]

Here's a link to a quick video of a Nova launch,



I do remember when Steve Bennet said he would be sitting at the top of the next one ;-)


JJ..

Great video, thanks.
It offers some encouragement.

[savuporo]

Thats a huge Estes cluster ..

[Danderman]

Here's a link to a quick video of a Nova launch,

I do remember when Steve Bennet said he would be sitting at the top of the next one ;-)

Very similar to large model rocket launches. In particular, the body of the vehicle is effectively empty, except for the small engines at the bottom.
Very impressive for someone who doesn't know much about model rockets.

[Danderman]

Thats a huge Estes cluster ..

Not really Estes motors, as you may know, there are companies selling much larger motors, I have seen launches of large rockets using "M" class motors, and its a very impressive sight (this one flies a Q motor):

[edkyle99]

Thats a huge Estes cluster ..

That's no model rocket, and those aren't black powder hobby motors!

Starchaser's web site describes this as having 221 kNs total impulse, which well beyond the normal range of hobby motor classification.  It would be beyond "Q", into the "R" range.  Or, if we must think about it this way, it would be roughly the equivalent of 11,000 Estes "D" motors (though not all fired at once)!  This might be considered in the high power amateur rocket arena, but it appears that this team has more money to play with than most "amateurs".  The fact that this rocket was successfully launched *and* recovered shows a much better than average "amateur" effort.

The web page says the this rocket was a prototype to test systems that are planned to be used with a liquid engine powered rocket. 

 - Ed Kyle

[Marsman]

Thats a huge Estes cluster ..

That's no model rocket, and those aren't black powder hobby motors!

Starchaser's web site describes this as having 221 kNs total impulse, which well beyond the normal range of hobby motor classification.  It would be beyond "Q", into the "R" range.  Or, if we must think about it this way, it would be roughly the equivalent of 11,000 Estes "D" motors (though not all fired at once)!  This might be considered in the high power amateur rocket arena, but it appears that this team has more money to play with than most "amateurs".  The fact that this rocket was successfully launched *and* recovered shows a much better than average "amateur" effort.

The web page says the this rocket was a prototype to test systems that are planned to be used with a liquid engine powered rocket. 

 - Ed Kyle

This comes close- http://www.rocketsmagazine.com/saturn-v-project/Motors/ 183kNs, and I beleive that the CSXT team that made it to space in 2004 was an R motor. These types of projects are well within the high-power rocketry realm.

[Danderman]

The point is that flying high power rockets is not a path to developing a space program or commercial space project.

[Ben the Space Brit]

The point is that flying high power rockets is not a path to developing a space program or commercial space project.

Agreed and they are obviously of that opinion too. 

The final product intended by Starchaser will be a single-stage twin-kerolox booster to fire their capsule into a suborbital trajectory (in essence, reinventing the Mercury-Redstone with a far larger capsule).  The intent of making the booster and payload reusable is an interesting twist though.

I don't know if it is still in Steve Bennett's mind, but I have a wallpaper of an evolved Starchaser-5 with an upper stage and four Starchaser-4-derived outriggers (likely solids but possibly liquid-fuelled).  That sort of machine could possibly be an orbital launcher but that is very long term.

Onto the subject of the supposed launch this year, Starchaser have recently gone very quiet on their Churchill kerolox engine, preferring to focus instead in talking about their LAS motor program.  I wonder if, if a launch is indeed planned, whether it is going to be a flight test of the smaller Churchill-2.

[Danderman]

I guess I was not being very obvious on my point. As long as I can remember, Starchaser has been promising rockets with liquid rocket engines, and actually delivering the occasional high power rocket, which happens to be designed to look like a real rocket to the media.

[Ben the Space Brit]

Well, in fairness to Starchaser, they have very limited funds.  They have a small revenue stream from their subscribers and, IIRC, once sold a set of high-altitude rockets to some academic institution.  Given that, any progress would be extremely slow.  I don't think anyone can blame Starchaser for the occasional publicity stunt to keep up public inteerst.

[Danderman]

Well, in fairness to Starchaser, they have very limited funds.  They have a small revenue stream from their subscribers and, IIRC, once sold a set of high-altitude rockets to some academic institution.  Given that, any progress would be extremely slow.  I don't think anyone can blame Starchaser for the occasional publicity stunt to keep up public inteerst.

I don't mind the occasional publicity stunt, as long as:

a) Starchaser actually does useful stuff to show real progress; and

b) doesn't announce vapor projects all the time.

If you would like examples of small enterprises that show actual progress, the recent history of Masten Space and XCOR are good examples.

[savuporo]

I don't mind the occasional publicity stunt, as long as:
a) Starchaser actually does useful stuff to show real progress; and

b) doesn't announce vapor projects all the time.

I would add to that:
c) does not set lawn on fire

[kevin-rf]

I would add to that:
c) does not set lawn on fire

That only applies in California

[DiggyCoxwell]

   I'll personally contact Starchaser Industries
by long-distance telephone or fax.
I'll let you know the outcome and latest info.
       
   Mind you, one-third of November is already over and nothing
on the net.
   

Steve Bennett  has not replied to the fax and e-mails
I sent him.  The only good news I have is that his office
and links are still functioning and available for business.

[Danderman]

   I'll personally contact Starchaser Industries
by long-distance telephone or fax.
I'll let you know the outcome and latest info.
       
   Mind you, one-third of November is already over and nothing
on the net.
   

Steve Bennett  has not replied to the fax and e-mails
I sent him.  The only good news I have is that his office
and links are still functioning and available for business.

I am shocked, shocked!

[Danderman]

http://www.starchaser.co.uk/index.php?view=starchaser4_project&mgroup=projects

The Starchaser web site has been updated. The good news is that it looks like they are doing some work with hybrid engines, actual static tests. The bad news is that this means that they are 10 years behind InterOrbital Systems, who have been doing such tests with larger engines since the Clinton Administration.

Also, the web site reminds us that the last "large" launch conducted by Starchaser was in 2001, and used model rocket motors in place of a liquid engine system.

[DiggyCoxwell]

http://www.starchaser.co.uk/index.php?view=starchaser4_project&mgroup=projects

The Starchaser web site has been updated. The good news is that it looks like they are doing some work with hybrid engines, actual static tests. The bad news is that this means that they are 10 years behind InterOrbital Systems, who have been doing such tests with larger engines since the Clinton Administration.

Also, the web site reminds us that the last "large" launch conducted by Starchaser was in 2001, and used model rocket motors in place of a liquid engine system.

Starchaser Industries 'plans' to launch a modified Nova booster
later this year to an altitude of upto 30,000 feet?
Well...InterOrbital is planning to start test launching their individual
modular stages, starting this June, upto 50,000 feet.

Bully to them if they succeed; they certainly will have a leg up
on Armadillo Aerospace and others...But, with all the delays, and more expected, I'm not holding my breath.

[Robotbeat]

...

Bully to them if they succeed; they certainly will have a leg up
on Armadillo Aerospace and others...
...

Of course, only if you measure by altitude, and many of these VTVL folks (including Armadillo, I believe) plan to hit over 100,000 feet this year:
http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home/FAQ#higher (100,000')
http://masten-space.com/blog/?p=502 (100,000' with Xoie, 60+km with Foxie, and 100km with Xogdor, all planned for 2010, or so)
http://unreasonablerocket.blogspot.com/2010/04/space-access-10.html (plans two trips to 100,000' in one day within about two years)

We shall see. I'd bet that at least one of them reaches 50,000' sometime in 2011. But I wouldn't bet a ton of money. Regulators seem to be getting in the way of higher boosted hops, so if I bet too much money, someone may "arrange" for more regulatory difficulties.

[Danderman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starchaser_Industries

So, what happened to these guys - are they the British equivalent of Interorbital Systems?

[QuantumG]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starchaser_Industries

So, what happened to these guys - are they the British equivalent of Interorbital Systems?

Heh. Starchaser Industries actually managed to raise significant capital during the Ansari X-Prize. Interorbital Systems hasn't ever done that.

[Danderman]

The question is that Starchaser is doing now, as the X-Prize was 10 years ago.

[Kryten]

 The last news item on their website is that they're trying to get Nova 2 launched 'in september 2012', written in November 2011. Looking through the archives, they've consistently had updates of at least some kind every few months for years up to then, so it might indicate something drastic. Ran out of money?

EDIT: Their facebook page has an update from September 2012;

We will be displaying Nova 2 at the Southport Air Show on 8th & 9th Sept. Please join us, help us raise awareness and the remaining funding required to launch the rocket

So yeah, ran out of money.

[Ben the Space Brit]

Interestingly the current design version of their site is dated 2013. So the organisation must have been doing something in the past twelve months, even if it was just hiring a web designer to produce a new web-page for them.

[savuporo]

Well. It didnt fly because the accountant stole all their money.

“She was a parasite sucking the lifeblood out of the company.

“No matter how hard everyone worked, no matter how much money was coming in, we couldn’t sustain it anymore.

“As soon as I employed another accountant, the company bounced back.”

Hate when that happens.

But they are back now, https://twitter.com/starchaseruk/status/539759142882512897

4:33 AM - 2 Dec 2014

***LAUNCH NEWS*** Our next launch will be the launch of our 14ft Tempest research rocket on Wednesday 4th February from rural Cheshire.

yes!

[Kryten]

 The launch failed at about 9m altitude (with video).

Steve Bennett, CEO of Starchaser Industries, said: "It was just a problem with the rocket propellant. It didn't ignite properly... and the rocket fuel just shut down.
"The rocket's salvageable, we will be able to fix it and we'll be able to have another go at it."