XCOR and the Lynx rocket

[jongoff]

Is it that much different? If a pilot will always be there, the pressurized cabin and life support for 1-3 people will surely mass several metric tons. While not technically part of the cargo mass, that mass still has to be put in LEO.

I think your "several metric tons" has a lot of assumptions built in. Dragon does mass several metric tonnes for 7 crew members. But Dragon isn't really an RLV. An RLV stage already has to have many of the things that make Dragon heavy (landing and recovery systems, TPS, RCS engines, etc). Those are already included in the RLV's dry mass and don't count towards the payload--that's why RLVs have worse payload to GLOW in the first place!

The question is really the marginal mass of the remaining subsystems needed for people. Personally I think that you could make a crew cabin for useful orbital missions, for three people, that massed less than 1000lb. Once again, that's not counting the rest of the dry mass that goes to things like RCS, reentry TPS, landing systems, etc. Just the amount that you could replace on an RLV with pure payload. You'd definitely have to put some real thought into how you operate, making docking systems that are really lightweight, how long of duration you really need for a real mission, etc.

Another data point is that the full Lynx spacecraft, which includes a pressurized crew cabin for two, weighs less than 4000lb dry. That's including engines, tanks, landing gear, other structures, pressurant gasses, etc. My guess is that the actual cockpit is well less than 1000lb of that (though it's hard to tell by just looking at it). Could it keep two people alive for days? No. But could it keep them long enough to be useful for orbital trips to and from a space facility? Probably.

Basically, I don't think it's at all the case that a fully-reusable vehicle with a 1-3 person capability has to be anywhere near as big as F9R.

~Jon

[Lars_J]

My concern (if you can call it that) is that you are a bit optimistic about what an orbital space plane would mass - It is after all basically the equivalent of a small capsule *and* upper stage put together. Sure, some of the systems are duplicated and can be removed, but you also have additional TPS to deal with. Gemini is probably a decent size comparison, it and massed ~3t dry, didn't it? Yes - the obvious retort is "modern construction & materials", but many projects that one would have expected to come in lighter due to modern construction and materials always seem to end up weighing more that assumed.

As for the mass of Lynx - you have clearly seen more of it that most people have. But I would be cautious about using it as an example until it actually flies.

But I certainly hope you are right, Jon!

I look forward to seeing some more detail on what they have planned.

[Robert Thompson]

Is it reasonable to expect a captive carry test?

[Robotbeat]

Is it reasonable to expect a captive carry test?

Captive carry by what? The Lynx is self-propelled the whole way. They may do taxis at first, but certainly not captive carry.

[QuantumG]

Agreed. One of the nice things about having a powered aircraft (vs a glider) is that you can do the usual envelope expansion flight testing.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Yeah, I think that Jeff's approach to reusability is a lot more likely to yield high-flight rate, gas-and-go reuse than Elon's. Though Elon seems to have found a great approach to get into basic reusability starting from an expendable vehicle.

I agree. What I'm less sure about is how far XCOR's approach will scale (at least without very high development costs). Large supersonic spaceplanes feel expensive to me. May be even long-term XCOR isn't interested in heavy-lift?

[Robotbeat]

Yeah, I think that Jeff's approach to reusability is a lot more likely to yield high-flight rate, gas-and-go reuse than Elon's. Though Elon seems to have found a great approach to get into basic reusability starting from an expendable vehicle.

I agree. What I'm less sure about is how far XCOR's approach will scale (at least without very high development costs). Large supersonic spaceplanes feel expensive to me. May be even long-term XCOR isn't interested in heavy-lift?

Im pretty confident XCOR doesn't care about heavy lift.

[Robert Thompson]

Is it reasonable to expect a captive carry test?

Captive carry by what? The Lynx is self-propelled the whole way. They may do taxis at first, but certainly not captive carry.

I was wondering what might be the first sight of Lynx in the air, and Dream Chaser's captive carry seemed a reasonable guess. I guess I kind of assumed Lynx used its prop to achieve max altitude, then did an unpowered glide back to the landing strip. I kind of figured it was a much lighter version of flying brick, and might need the same testing as DC got.

[kch]

Is it reasonable to expect a captive carry test?

Captive carry by what? The Lynx is self-propelled the whole way. They may do taxis at first, but certainly not captive carry.

I was wondering what might be the first sight of Lynx in the air, and Dream Chaser's captive carry seemed a reasonable guess. I guess I kind of assumed Lynx used its prop to achieve max altitude, then did an unpowered glide back to the landing strip. I kind of figured it was a much lighter version of flying brick, and might need the same testing as DC got.

Here's their flight animation video:

[Robert Thompson]

This is where I drop the question on an Lynx thread because I see I do not fully understand the significance of the captive carry test on a Dream Chaser. But I acknowledge that the Lynx video does evidence a Lynx returning with no exotic banking maneuvers. That's enough for me. 

[mheney]

Dream Chaser isn't self-powered in atmospheric flight.  So it can't do taxi tests, short hops, or other tests to expand the envelope without something towing it down the runway (pickup truck), or hauling it through the air and dropping it (a helicopter).  Lynx, on the other hand, can roll itself down the runway, do once-arounds, and continuously gather more and more light envelope experience under its own power.

[Robert Thompson]

Thank you.
My tedious lapse/gap in knowledge on the Lynx was: Does it retain propellant after having reached target altitude. Answer is, yes.
My tedious gap in knowledge on Dream Chaser and captive carry is: Is this to verify performance for moments of inertia and control surfaces during banking maneuvers that are analogous to the Shuttle which came in at orbital re-entry speed. Answer is.... ?
My tedious conjecture was that Lynx may expend all its propellant reaching maximum possible target altitude and have to resort to control surfaces, gliding, and cross-range on return. And that a captive carry would simulate that regime of non-powered flight.
My Lynx question is moot. There is propellant remaining, analogous to the X-Racers, and Lynx does not 'burn out' all its ascent capability, leaving nothing but return glide. It was a missing piece of puzzle.
So one confirmation would be: Is Lynx's target altitude lower than its maximum achievable altitude? I don't know SS2 well, and I expect that with a hybrid, its target altitude and its maximum altitude are one and the same. (But then I hear it's throttle-able? Idk.)

[mheney]

There's an assumption or two being made here.  I didn't say that Lynx retained fuel after an operational flight.  Lynx performs an unpowered gliding landing after a flight.  What I said was that, being self-powered, it doesn't need a carrier aircraft to do test flights. 

[Robert Thompson]

Ok, thank you for that.

[Danderman]

Spaceship Pilot Joins Rival Firm

http://www.spacenews.com/article/features/40089spaceship-pilot-joins-rival-firm

 Brian Binnie, who flew the prototype SpaceShipOne on its final X Prize-winning flight in 2004, has left manufacturer Scaled Composites for competitor XCOR Aerospace.

Both firms are building suborbital spaceships for commercial space travel. Scaled, which was hired by Richard Branson’s Virgin Galactic, is building SpaceShipTwo, a six-passenger, two-pilot ship currently undergoing testing in Mojave, Calif.

Privately owned XCOR Aerospace, also based in Mojave, is working on a two-seater called Lynx.

Binnie, who served as Scaled’s program business manager as well as a test pilot, joins XCOR as chief engineer. He announced the new position on LinkedIn.com.

[rusty]

Spaceship Pilot Joins Rival Firm

http://www.spacenews.com/article/features/40089spaceship-pilot-joins-rival-firm
 Brian Binnie, who flew the prototype SpaceShipOne on its final X Prize-winning flight in 2004, has left manufacturer Scaled Composites for competitor XCOR Aerospace. ...
Binnie, who served as Scaled’s program business manager as well as a test pilot, joins XCOR as chief engineer. He announced the new position on LinkedIn.com.

A bit different job title over at Yahoo Finance
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/xcor-aerospace-announces-brian-binnie-174100055.html
MOJAVE, Calif., April 3, 2014 /PRNewswire/ -- XCOR Aerospace announced today that celebrated aviator, test pilot, engineer and commercial astronaut Brian Binnie has joined the company as Senior Test Pilot. As Senior Test Pilot, Binnie will be working with another celebrated pilot and astronaut, XCOR Chief Test Pilot and former Space Shuttle Pilot and Commander, US Air Force Colonel (Ret.) Richard (Rick) Searfoss. ...
Brian Binnie is a decorated aviator having piloted the Ansari X-Prize award winning flight that broke the winged aircraft altitude record previously held by the X-15. He also was the pilot of a unique prototype of a single stage to orbit system, the Roton Rocket Atmospheric Test Vehicle, from Rotary Rocket.

[Llian Rhydderch]

Spaceship Pilot Joins Rival Firm

http://www.spacenews.com/article/features/40089spaceship-pilot-joins-rival-firm
 Brian Binnie, who flew the prototype SpaceShipOne on its final X Prize-winning flight in 2004, has left manufacturer Scaled Composites for competitor XCOR Aerospace. ...
Binnie, who served as Scaled’s program business manager as well as a test pilot, joins XCOR as chief engineer. He announced the new position on LinkedIn.com.

A bit different job title over at Yahoo Finance
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/xcor-aerospace-announces-brian-binnie-174100055.html
MOJAVE, Calif., April 3, 2014 /PRNewswire/ -- XCOR Aerospace announced today that celebrated aviator, test pilot, engineer and commercial astronaut Brian Binnie has joined the company as Senior Test Pilot. As Senior Test Pilot, Binnie will be working with another celebrated pilot and astronaut, XCOR Chief Test Pilot and former Space Shuttle Pilot and Commander, US Air Force Colonel (Ret.) Richard (Rick) Searfoss. ...
Brian Binnie is a decorated aviator having piloted the Ansari X-Prize award winning flight that broke the winged aircraft altitude record previously held by the X-15. He also was the pilot of a unique prototype of a single stage to orbit system, the Roton Rocket Atmospheric Test Vehicle, from Rotary Rocket.

Not so different any longer.  Space News has updated their article:  no longer calling him a chief engineer.  Now, merely a "senior engineer and test pilot".  So a bit closer to the Yahoo story.

[bad_astra]

Glad to see he will be going back up to space.

[jongoff]

XCOR Press Release:

XCOR Aerospace Receives Lynx Mark I Cockpit

Vehicle Integration Commences

09 April 2014, Mojave, CA – XCOR Aerospace announced today that the XCOR® Lynx® Mark I cockpit has been delivered. AdamWorks engineers, along with XCOR engineers, performed several successful pressure tests before it was packed and shipped to XCOR .

The cockpit is the principal major subassembly XCOR needs to begin assembly of the Lynx suborbital spaceplane.

“The successful pressure testing of the Lynx cockpit and its delivery is a major milestone for us,” said XCOR Founder and CEO Jeff Greason. “This will enable us to accelerate toward integration, ground testing and first flight over the rest of this year.”

Andrew Nelson, Chief Operating Officer of XCOR added, “Our clients and partners are very happy to see this significant sign of progress.  I could not be more happy with our designers, engineers and team who have worked so hard on this major accomplishment. We are that much closer to suborbital operations.”



**************
My comments:

This is pretty neat because this was the missing piece they needed before they could start assembling the primary structure of the vehicle, and start running wiring and plumbing. Still a stretch to be ready to fly by end of the year (a friend from Scaled's rule of thumb was it take about a year from when you have something airplane looking till first flight), but now that it's in, they can really start moving. Looking forward to more and more progress photos and blog posts in the coming months.

~Jon

[BrightLight]

Earlier I posted a question - Can Lynx get to 100km before Virgin Galactic SS2. I have no clue but this is one more step closer. FWIW - XCOR seems to be taking small manageable steps towards a reusable sub-orbital rocket plane.  From what I've seen in posts, this approach might have truly great merit.