Author Topic: XCOR and the Lynx rocket (Read 620915 times)

Robotbeat · « **Reply #460 on:** 05/20/2013 07:35 pm »

Quote from: Lar on 05/20/2013 03:57 pm

Quote from: Hernalt on 05/20/2013 02:08 pm
(I assume out of hand that piston pumps are not going to get a winged vehicle to actual orbit.)

Why? It might be harder, sure, but why out of hand?

A pretty ridiculous statement to be sure! XCOR is building the pumps because they believe they are a superior way to accomplish their goal of inexpensive, rapid-turnaround, robust orbital travel.

Robert Thompson · « **Reply #461 on:** 05/21/2013 03:26 am »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_%28spacecraft%29

"The successor to the Mark II is planned to be a two stage fully reusable orbital vehicle that takes off and lands horizontally.[26]"

(I've known about the XCOR 2 stage since I talked to Rick Searfoss at a SpaceFest 3 in 2011.) My context was upscaleable Lynx, single-frame, single-stage, winged, horizontal takeoff and landing.

I assume out of hand that piston pumps are not going to get a single-frame, single-stage, winged, horizontal takeoff and landing vehicle to actual LEO, for unspecified duration, and then return, through aerodynamic loads analogous to what destroyed Columbia, with analogous thermal protection mass.

Else, why would XCOR be planning two stage.

dcporter · « **Reply #462 on:** 05/21/2013 03:38 am »

I'm having trouble picturing a multistage thing that takes off horizontally. How's that work?

docmordrid · « **Reply #463 on:** 05/21/2013 03:50 am »

Stage 1 is a horizontally launched flyback 'mothership' booster. Stage 2 incorporates the upper stage and spacecraft. Look up Blackstar.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstar_(spacecraft)

HMXHMX · « **Reply #464 on:** 05/21/2013 04:43 am »

Quote from: docmordrid on 05/21/2013 03:50 am

Stage 1 is a horizontally launched flyback 'mothership' booster. Stage 2 incorporates the upper stage and spacecraft. Look up Blackstar.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstar_(spacecraft)

At Space Access 2013, Jeff Greason said two rocket stages launched from a carrier subsonic aircraft with a $1M/passenger price target.

Lar · « **Reply #465 on:** 05/21/2013 04:47 am »

Quote from: sublimemarsupial on 05/20/2013 07:03 pm

I believe the statement was that piston pumps are only effective for a single engine of less than 100,000 lbf. No reason that you couldn't have several engines, each driven by their own piston pump, in a cluster.

A rocket with multiple engines in the first stage??? That's crazy talk.

"everybody knows" that turbine pumps are the way to go.

Robert Thompson · « **Reply #466 on:** 05/21/2013 05:28 am »

http://www.xcor.com/products/vehicles/frequent_flyer_and_teledyne_brown_spaceplane.html
Previous Vehicle Design by Dan DeLong

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/03files/Blackstar_Spaceplane.html
(Text Weather Warning: slight chance of tin hat)

FutureSpaceTourist · « **Reply #467 on:** 05/21/2013 05:41 am »

There's a separate thread for discussion of XCOR's orbital plans:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31741.0

It was split off when this thread became too cluttered.

simonbp · « **Reply #468 on:** 05/21/2013 05:43 am »

Yes, my impression from being in the audience at Space Access (and hurriedly taking notes), was that it was a standard carrier aircraft (don't think he explicitly said subsonic, but it was implied), and two liquid-fuel, winged stages. The second stage will be hydrogen/oxygen, though he did not mention the first stage's propellant.

The first stage of this orbital vehicle is likely the most similar to Lynx, and may be a direct evolution.

Robotbeat · « **Reply #469 on:** 05/21/2013 07:33 pm »

Quote from: HMXHMX on 05/21/2013 04:43 am

Quote from: docmordrid on 05/21/2013 03:50 am
Stage 1 is a horizontally launched flyback 'mothership' booster. Stage 2 incorporates the upper stage and spacecraft. Look up Blackstar.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstar_(spacecraft)

At Space Access 2013, Jeff Greason said two rocket stages launched from a carrier subsonic aircraft with a $1M/passenger price target.

When (if) Stratolaunch goes under after building the carrier craft, XCOR may be able to get it for cheap...

Lar · « **Reply #470 on:** 05/21/2013 07:56 pm »

Quote from: Robotbeat on 05/21/2013 07:33 pm

Quote from: HMXHMX on 05/21/2013 04:43 am
At Space Access 2013, Jeff Greason said two rocket stages launched from a carrier subsonic aircraft with a $1M/passenger price target.
When (if) Stratolaunch goes under after building the carrier craft, XCOR may be able to get it for cheap...

Would they want a one-off vehicle from a firm no longer in business?

Robotbeat · « **Reply #471 on:** 05/21/2013 09:08 pm »

Quote from: Lar on 05/21/2013 07:56 pm

Quote from: Robotbeat on 05/21/2013 07:33 pm
Quote from: HMXHMX on 05/21/2013 04:43 am
At Space Access 2013, Jeff Greason said two rocket stages launched from a carrier subsonic aircraft with a $1M/passenger price target.
When (if) Stratolaunch goes under after building the carrier craft, XCOR may be able to get it for cheap...

Would they want a one-off vehicle from a firm no longer in business?

Valid point. But they could possibly buy all the assets for very cheap, including what they used to build that one vehicle.

Anyway, I sort of doubt it will happen that way. XCOR I think is leaning in the direction of using a more standard aircraft.

Robert Thompson · « **Reply #472 on:** 05/22/2013 03:31 am »

http://newspacewatch.com/articles/space-tech-expo-day-1.html
~~Greason~~ Tweets from Space Tech Expo relevant to XCOR

Edit: Per correction by QG.

QuantumG · « **Reply #473 on:** 05/22/2013 03:37 am »

Quote from: Hernalt on 05/22/2013 03:31 am

http://newspacewatch.com/articles/space-tech-expo-day-1.html
Greason tweets from Space Tech Expo

Where? Do you mean the Andrew Nelson quotes by Jeff Foust?

FutureSpaceTourist · « **Reply #474 on:** 05/22/2013 05:16 am »

275 seats sold is quite a bit higher than the last number I'd heard. I'm glad that they're making steady progress on sales as well as Lynx.

jongoff · « **Reply #475 on:** 05/22/2013 03:43 pm »

Quote from: FutureSpaceTourist on 05/22/2013 05:16 am

275 seats sold is quite a bit higher than the last number I'd heard. I'm glad that they're making steady progress on sales as well as Lynx.

Yeah, while I'm doubtful that that number represents tickets that have been 100% paid for, that represents potential for almost $27M, which is, I think, more than the actual direct investment they've raised to develop Lynx (at least MkI and possibly MkII). I was already cautiously optimistic that my friends at XCOR would be profitable, this increases my hopes.

Now they just need to get flying so they can start filling those orders (same can be said for VG, Masten, and SpaceX of course)... :-)

~Jon

Robert Thompson · « **Reply #476 on:** 05/31/2013 01:09 am »

http://news.investors.com/technology/052913-657949-virgin-galactic-xcor-in-new-space-race.htm
"XCOR Aerospace's Chief Operating Officer Andrew Nelson ... According to Nelson, XCOR and Virgin have about 100 customers that plan to fly on both vehicles, because each ride offers slightly different experiences. XCOR's Lynx craft seats two — the pilot and passenger — giving customers a cockpit view of space. Virgin's aircraft seats eight, two pilots and six passengers."

Elmar Moelzer · « **Reply #477 on:** 05/31/2013 05:35 pm »

I think VG is a bit ahead of the game, but I love the Lynx and XCOR. Some competition between the two certainly makes things more exciting.

jongoff · « **Reply #478 on:** 05/31/2013 05:42 pm »

Quote from: Elmar Moelzer on 05/31/2013 05:35 pm

I think VG is a bit ahead of the game, but I love the Lynx and XCOR. Some competition between the two certainly makes things more exciting.

While VG's delays definitely gave XCOR (and others) an opportunity to catch up and beat them to a suborbital capability, it looks like XCOR wasn't able to get it's funding situation in order fast enough. It would be exciting though if both XCOR and VG were flying by the end of next year.

~Jon

Elmar Moelzer · « **Reply #479 on:** 05/31/2013 06:08 pm »

I thought VG was meant to fly by the end of THIS year...
XCOR, is indeed a bit behind, mainly due to the pescy funding problems...
I like the idea of the Lynx taking off from a runway on its own instead of requiring a carrier plane. I still think that the Xerus was cooler looking though.