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#80
by
mmeijeri
on 26 Jun, 2009 19:13
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In PASS, GNC OPS 2 and SM OPS 2 are different memory configs (i.e. they can't run on the same GPC at the same time). Typically during orbit ops GPCs 1, 2, and 3 are loaded with PASS GNC OPS 2 and GPC 4 is loaded with PASS SM OPS 2. GPC 5 is loaded with BFS, but the BFS does not have OPS 2, of course...
Flares and sideburns are strictly optional.
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#81
by
elmarko
on 26 Jun, 2009 19:37
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As for OPS 201 <-> OPS 202 this is indeed two-way. 201 is for burns, 202 is for payload bay doors.
Not quite. You're describing two different major functions. Burns fall under the GNC major function (and it's 202, not 201), and PL bay doors fall under the SM major function.
GNC OPS 201 - orbit coast
GNC OPS 202 - orbit burns
SM OPS 201 - normal orbit ops
SM OPS 202 - PL bay doors
You can transition both ways (201<->202) *within* a major function, but not *across* major functions.
In PASS, GNC OPS 2 and SM OPS 2 are different memory configs (i.e. they can't run on the same GPC at the same time). Typically during orbit ops GPCs 1, 2, and 3 are loaded with PASS GNC OPS 2 and GPC 4 is loaded with PASS SM OPS 2. GPC 5 is loaded with BFS, but the BFS does not have OPS 2, of course...
That's a horrendously bad schoolboy error on my part, thanks for making me look stupid
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#82
by
Danny Dot
on 26 Jun, 2009 22:16
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snip
That's a horrendously bad schoolboy error on my part, thanks for making me look stupid
I have done a lot worse in front of a class full of astronauts. They don't let errors like this get past them. Something about dying if they are trained wrong motivates them to point out such errors
Danny Deger
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#83
by
elmarko
on 27 Jun, 2009 09:55
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The annoying thing is that I pride myself on getting stuff like that right, and I've played a lot of SSM2007 lately :p
Maybe that's a good idea for a thread. Most embarrassing moment in training. Or just a general "funny things that happened to me in the spaceflight business" thread.
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#84
by
Jim
on 27 Jun, 2009 12:57
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The annoying thing is that I pride myself on getting stuff like that right, and I've played a lot of SSM2007 lately :p
Maybe that's a good idea for a thread. Most embarrassing moment in training. Or just a general "funny things that happened to me in the spaceflight business" thread.
The Ole days thread has some posts like that
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#85
by
Nephi
on 29 Jun, 2009 10:44
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Thanks for all the replies, but we got carried away to OPS 201/202 which are pretty easy to deal with and were absolutely not my primary concern I must admit
So any idea how we could get out of OPS 304 if getting to it too quickly from OPS 303 for example (or if the CDR brutally gets nuts
) ?
@Danny : if you are in OPS 303 and get to 304 it means that on the contrary, the deorbit burn has indeed been done (OPS 302 normally). So I'm not sure if you could get back to OPS 2 anyhow ?!
The problem is that there seems to be only a one way arrow from 303 to 304 on the DPS dictionnary OPS synthesis.
The problem is that OPS 303 is used to dump a few things (among other activities) and that you cannot do it from OPS 304 (entry traj). So if you went to 304 before dumping the right stuff, how do you get back to doing it before entry interface ? Hence my question about going back from 304 to 303
I believe that there should be a procedure somewhere.
(edit : oh and : Hi elmarko
Pretty not surprised and pretty happy to see you here as it's the best place for all shuttle lovers
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#86
by
elmarko
on 29 Jun, 2009 13:11
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Essentially, the situation (to simplify your words) is this:
If there's a one way arrow between modes, you cant go backwards because the system won't let you (ILLEGAL ENTRY?), so by my reckoning the only way would be to manually load into memory the program you want. Which, I understand, is time consuming.
As for your point about not being able to go back to OPS 2 because the deorbit burn was already done, I'm sure it could be done manually, there'd just be little use for OPS 2 at that point.
Can someone help me out here, I'm wondering how badly I'm understanding this. DPS is a little sketchy for me so this is a learning curve.
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#87
by
Danny Dot
on 29 Jun, 2009 13:21
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snip
@Danny : if you are in OPS 303 and get to 304 it means that on the contrary, the deorbit burn has indeed been done (OPS 302 normally). So I'm not sure if you could get back to OPS 2 anyhow ?!
The problem is that there seems to be only a one way arrow from 303 to 304 on the DPS dictionnary OPS synthesis.
The problem is that OPS 303 is used to dump a few things (among other activities) and that you cannot do it from OPS 304 (entry traj). So if you went to 304 before dumping the right stuff, how do you get back to doing it before entry interface ? Hence my question about going back from 304 to 303 I believe that there should be a procedure somewhere.
snip
If I was in the shuttle post deorbit burn and someone wanted to get back to 303 to do a dump, I would put them in the airlock for the rest of the entry so they wouldn't come up with any other "good" ideas
And I can't see of anyway to do it quick enough to get back to 304 before entry interface. I know there must be some way to reload OPS 2 then OPS 3 but in the post burn situation there is not enough time.
It sounds like you are playing with a shuttle simulator of some type. Is this correct?
And you are correct the DPS dictionary is not an easy way to learn DPS. It is a reference, not a training manual. Call JSC information 281-483-0123 and ask for the DPS training department and see if you can get someone to mail you a copy of the DPS training manual. They might do this for you. When I was there, they were a very nice bunch of guys and gals.
Danny Deger
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#88
by
elmarko
on 29 Jun, 2009 13:32
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Danny, I definately see your point about time. That was my point, really. You COULD do it by manually loading it in, but there wouldn't be enough time to do it.
And I'm pretty sure Nephi's not trying to use the Dictionary as a training manual. It already is a headbender as it is!
Also, re your last paragraph. Shame I'm in the UK... maybe some other nice soul wants to ring up and find us a new document for L2...
PS, we're playing Space Shuttle Mission 2007 but it's by no means a complete copy of the STS system. The DPS is very cut down in places.
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#89
by
Danny Dot
on 29 Jun, 2009 13:37
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Danny, I definately see your point about time. That was my point, really. You COULD do it by manually loading it in, but there wouldn't be enough time to do it.
And I'm pretty sure Nephi's not trying to use the Dictionary as a training manual. It already is a headbender as it is!
Also, re your last paragraph. Shame I'm in the UK... maybe some other nice soul wants to ring up and find us a new document for L2...
PS, we're playing Space Shuttle Mission 2007 but it's by no means a complete copy of the STS system. The DPS is very cut down in places.
Being in the UK would be a problem. We wouldn't want you Imperialist Swines to use the data to build ICBMs that could take us down.
Getting a set of training manuals for L2 is a great idea. I think I will look into this.
Danny Deger
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#90
by
elmarko
on 29 Jun, 2009 14:29
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That would be amazing, thanks Danny.
It's cool, we have such a lot of documents on there, but there seems to be a few areas missing, and training books are one of them. We have lots of reference materials, but some people like to really get into how things work
Not that we're not thankful for what we get already, of course. We all are.
I'd definitely be interested in what you can find, as would everyone else!
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#91
by
Jorge
on 29 Jun, 2009 20:18
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Essentially, the situation (to simplify your words) is this:
If there's a one way arrow between modes, you cant go backwards because the system won't let you (ILLEGAL ENTRY?), so by my reckoning the only way would be to manually load into memory the program you want. Which, I understand, is time consuming.
As for your point about not being able to go back to OPS 2 because the deorbit burn was already done, I'm sure it could be done manually, there'd just be little use for OPS 2 at that point.
Can someone help me out here, I'm wondering how badly I'm understanding this. DPS is a little sketchy for me so this is a learning curve.
You can get just about anywhere from OPS 0, but OPS 000 PRO is not a legal transition from 304.
However, you can force a GPC to OPS 0 by taking the GPC MODE switch to STBY and back to RUN.
So... you take GPCs 1-4 to STBY, then back to RUN, one at a time. Once you have done this, you will have a GPC common set in OPS 0. The vehicle will not be controllable at this point! Check memory config 3 (ITEM 1+3), should be fine since you used it earlier to transition to OPS 3 the first time around, then invoke the NBAT with OPS 301 PRO. Now the vehicle is under control again.
May need to clean up the BFS afterward. I never certified DPS so not my specialty.
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#92
by
butters
on 30 Jun, 2009 02:11
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I get the sense that neglecting a necessary dump before deorbit burn would be considered a contingency situation, and the solution may be manual intervention rather than jumping backwards in software routines.
I don't know specifically what kinds of dumps are in question. I know that the potable water system can be dumped through the flash evaporator system down to 100,000 ft altitude during reentry by switching the freon loop radiator out temp to hi.
Other fluids might also be dumped in a contingency situation by manually operating valves via switch and breaker panels. This might be more practical in a time-critical emergency than changing OPS modes.
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#93
by
Jorge
on 30 Jun, 2009 02:18
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I get the sense that neglecting a necessary dump before deorbit burn would be considered a contingency situation, and the solution may be manual intervention rather than jumping backwards in software routines.
I don't know specifically what kinds of dumps are in question. I know that the potable water system can be dumped through the flash evaporator system down to 100,000 ft altitude during reentry by switching the freon loop radiator out temp to hi.
I don't know if there's any software functionality for that, but if there is, it would be in the SM major function, not GNC; therefore, for OPS 3 it would be in the BFS, not PASS.
Other fluids might also be dumped in a contingency situation by manually operating valves via switch and breaker panels. This might be more practical in a time-critical emergency than changing OPS modes.
The FRCS dump cannot be controlled by switches/breakers, and can only be performed in MM 301-303 (the only other way of dumping the FRCS would be a long manual -X translation using the THC, but that would perturb the entry trajectory quite badly... and I don't think the THC is polled in MM 304/305 anyway).
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#94
by
mkirk
on 30 Jun, 2009 14:00
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Here are a couple of the astronaut training workbooks for the space shuttle's data processing system (DPS) - I don't have the more recent versions in an electronic format, however, for all practical purposes these are still valid - at least for the purposes of this most recent discussion.
These were current when I was there and since they have been circulated on the internet in the past I have no problem posting them in this public thread.
Mark Kirkman
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#95
by
elmarko
on 30 Jun, 2009 15:44
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Thanks a lot Mark. Going to direct some people to that post so they can read the files.
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#96
by
Danny Dot
on 30 Jun, 2009 15:59
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Here are a couple of the astronaut training workbooks for the space shuttle's data processing system (DPS) - I don't have the more recent versions in an electronic format, however, for all practical purposes these are still valid - at least for the purposes of this most recent discussion.
These were current when I was there and since they have been circulated on the internet in the past I have no problem posting them in this public thread.
Mark Kirkman
Thanks Mark,
Can you grab a scanned copy of the Entry Guidance Workbook? I know this crowd will like it. It is written in plain English with lots of humor.
Danny Deger
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#97
by
elmarko
on 30 Jun, 2009 16:57
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According to the crew interface workbook, the PASS can only drive three CRTs. If the BFS is taken offline during on-orbit operations then what does the fourth CRT display? Just a cross as it has been deassigned? Or powered off?
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#98
by
Jorge
on 30 Jun, 2009 18:10
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According to the crew interface workbook, the PASS can only drive three CRTs. If the BFS is taken offline during on-orbit operations then what does the fourth CRT display? Just a cross as it has been deassigned? Or powered off?
Yes. If the fourth CRT is left powered on it will display the big "X"/"POLL FAIL". But normally it is powered off.
Standard ops is for CRT3 to be powered down on orbit. Some CDRs like to deassign CRT4 and bring up CRT3 for OMS burns.
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#99
by
NavySpaceFan
on 30 Jun, 2009 18:12
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Question re: STS-91. According to the mission press kit, the SPACEHAB carried "Cosmonaut Return Packages" up to Mir. Does anyone know what these packages specifically contained? Thanks!
) ?
