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#100
by
Jim
on 30 Jun, 2009 18:36
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Question re: STS-91. According to the mission press kit, the SPACEHAB carried "Cosmonaut Return Packages" up to Mir. Does anyone know what these packages specifically contained? Thanks!
I would have packed them onboard the SPACEHAB module. I don't quite remember Return Packages.
We did fly "Cosmonaut Family Packages" and "Cosmonaut Psychological Support Packages.
All were sealed in semi opaque bags. The family packages is self describing and the other had "magazines" in it and liquid containers.
Edit: Now I remember, Return packages weren't launched on board, they came back on the flight and were like the shuttle official flight kit/crew personal preference kit (trinkets/memorabilia).
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#101
by
elmarko
on 30 Jun, 2009 23:27
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Standard ops is for CRT3 to be powered down on orbit. Some CDRs like to deassign CRT4 and bring up CRT3 for OMS burns.
Displaying what? Pages for monitoring the OMS/RCS/Whatever?
Edit: Should say thanks for your previous answer too, these past 2 pages have been great.
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#102
by
Jorge
on 30 Jun, 2009 23:56
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Standard ops is for CRT3 to be powered down on orbit. Some CDRs like to deassign CRT4 and bring up CRT3 for OMS burns.
Displaying what? Pages for monitoring the OMS/RCS/Whatever?
Right. With two CRTs they normally have MNVR EXEC on 1 and SYS SUMM 2 on 2. With three they can also view SYS SUMM 1. Makes for quicker recognition of malfunctions.
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#103
by
mkirk
on 01 Jul, 2009 03:31
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Here are a couple of the astronaut training workbooks for the space shuttle's data processing system (DPS) - I don't have the more recent versions in an electronic format, however, for all practical purposes these are still valid - at least for the purposes of this most recent discussion.
These were current when I was there and since they have been circulated on the internet in the past I have no problem posting them in this public thread.
Mark Kirkman
Thanks Mark,
Can you grab a scanned copy of the Entry Guidance Workbook? I know this crowd will like it. It is written in plain English with lots of humor.
Danny Deger
I don't have that in an electronic format but it is good workbook and I see no reason it can't be posted - so give me some time (about a week or so since I will be on the road) and I will scan it.
Hmmm, I wonder who wrote the version I have - it says some clown named Danny prepared it - doesn't ring a bell.
Mark Kirkman
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#104
by
elmarko
on 01 Jul, 2009 06:51
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I don't have that in an electronic format but it is good workbook and I see no reason it can't be posted - so give me some time (about a week or so since I will be on the road) and I will scan it.
Hmmm, I wonder who wrote the version I have - it says some clown named Danny prepared it - doesn't ring a bell.
Mark Kirkman
Ahaha, so THAT'S why he wants it :p
It would be really amazing if we could make a thread on L2 specifically for training workbooks. I know we've had some already posted, but us Shuttle nuts love to feel as close to the action as we can. If you'd like to consider this a polite request to obtain some more, I know a lot of people would be very grateful.
I really love the way the workbooks are written, they seem to explain things in a very easy-to-understand manner, which I guess is the point.
Especially seen as we got those training catalogs, they really whet my appetite.
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#105
by
NavySpaceFan
on 01 Jul, 2009 13:52
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Question re: STS-91. According to the mission press kit, the SPACEHAB carried "Cosmonaut Return Packages" up to Mir. Does anyone know what these packages specifically contained? Thanks!
I would have packed them onboard the SPACEHAB module. I don't quite remember Return Packages.
We did fly "Cosmonaut Family Packages" and "Cosmonaut Psychological Support Packages.
All were sealed in semi opaque bags. The family packages is self describing and the other had "magazines" in it and liquid containers.
Edit: Now I remember, Return packages weren't launched on board, they came back on the flight and were like the shuttle official flight kit/crew personal preference kit (trinkets/memorabilia).
Thanks Jim!!!!
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#106
by
Danny Dot
on 01 Jul, 2009 13:59
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snip
I don't have that in an electronic format but it is good workbook and I see no reason it can't be posted - so give me some time (about a week or so since I will be on the road) and I will scan it.
Hmmm, I wonder who wrote the version I have - it says some clown named Danny prepared it - doesn't ring a bell.
Mark Kirkman
Don't give me any flak on that book. The astronauts gave me a Silver Snoopy for it. I think they were trying to send a signal that they would like the other books to not be good cures for insomnia when read for more than 10 minutes
I had to get my branch chief to call the editors to let my "inappropriate" writing style into the book.
Danny Deger
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#107
by
mkirk
on 01 Jul, 2009 15:12
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snip
I don't have that in an electronic format but it is good workbook and I see no reason it can't be posted - so give me some time (about a week or so since I will be on the road) and I will scan it.
Hmmm, I wonder who wrote the version I have - it says some clown named Danny prepared it - doesn't ring a bell.
Mark Kirkman
Don't give me any flak on that book. The astronauts gave me a Silver Snoopy for it. I think they were trying to send a signal that they would like the other books to not be good cures for insomnia when read for more than 10 minutes
I had to get my branch chief to call the editors to let my "inappropriate" writing style into the book.
Danny Deger
Yeah I admit I liked reading it there very first time I picked it up and thought to myself that it was very different in tone than most all of the other training docs.
Since we were space shuttle & space station “Crew Training”, I liked the fact that it stayed focused on what I (and ultimately the students – astronauts) needed to know to get the job done from the perspective of the cockpit. Just look at the ASCENT GUIDANCE or ENTRY DAP workbooks to see how quickly you can go to sleep – it has great information but is NOT written for a pilot. Granted MS’s are not all pilots but for the shuttle training flow, and in flight, they need to be trained to have some of the pilot mentality – thankfully they get much of that from flying in the T-38’s and in the Shuttle Sim.
The only other training book that seemed to have a similar tone was the MPS MAL USERS GUIDE – it was great about pointing out how to identify the problem, what needs to happen, and the bottom line/consequences – direct and to the point (even some subtle humor thrown in like your book). I noticed that some of that approach made it into the latest versions of the MPS Workbook (section 4) which was originally written in the typical MOD format.
I would say that your version of the Entry Guidance Book is written for pilots by a pilot (or at least a flyer of some sort). Not to say that you have to be a pilot to do the job – but I did notice a very adversarial relationship in MOD between pilots and engineers, much like you see in books/movies of the Apollo era. It seems that both sides were overly sensitive to insinuations from the other side that they didn’t have the right background/experience to understand certain issues when obviously both perspectives are important and need to be merged.
Just my opinion/observation!
Mark Kirkman
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#108
by
elmarko
on 01 Jul, 2009 15:32
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You're really whetting my appetite now. Is there any chance at all we can get some more Workbooks, then? Even older versions would be cool.
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#109
by
rdale
on 01 Jul, 2009 15:36
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elmarko - it's being worked on...
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#110
by
Danny Dot
on 01 Jul, 2009 15:40
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My guess is Chris will give free L2 for life to anyone who shows up with a pdf of a training manual
A complete set of training manuals would make a great addition to L2.
Danny Deger
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#111
by
elmarko
on 01 Jul, 2009 16:11
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Well like I've said, we have had some workbooks already on specific subjects. The prospect of getting some more excites me
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#112
by
Davidgojr
on 02 Jul, 2009 09:15
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I've noticed after seeing a shuttle launch in person and from many launch videos that one does not hear sonic booms during liftoff. Launch vehicles clearly break the sound barrier while they are still in the lower atmosphere but why is no boom heard on the ground?
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#113
by
Davidgojr
on 02 Jul, 2009 09:19
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During NASA TV broadcasts of shuttle launches there is a periodic hissing sound that can be heard before liftoff. These sounds seem to pulse in a regular rhythmic pattern. Can someone explain what the cause of these sounds are?
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#114
by
Jim
on 02 Jul, 2009 10:09
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Gases venting from the shuttle and after T-5 minutes, it is the exhaust from the APU's.
There is a Shuttle Q&A thread for question like this
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#115
by
haywoodfloyd
on 02 Jul, 2009 11:33
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Because the vehicle has to pass by you to hear the boom. When the shuttle was going to launch from VAFB, it would have passed over the Channel Islands and a boom would have heard. Since the islands were the home of many pinnipeds (seals), there was concern that during the breeding season, a boom would have made the mothers rush for the water causing the pups to be crushed.
Did they have the same concerns about thunderstorms?
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#116
by
Jim
on 02 Jul, 2009 11:38
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Because the vehicle has to pass by you to hear the boom. When the shuttle was going to launch from VAFB, it would have passed over the Channel Islands and a boom would have heard. Since the islands were the home of many pinnipeds (seals), there was concern that during the breeding season, a boom would have made the mothers rush for the water causing the pups to be crushed.
Did they have the same concerns about thunderstorms?
I believe they are rare out there, also most thunderstorm build up and not have an "out of the blue" boom
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#117
by
Jim
on 02 Jul, 2009 11:38
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During NASA TV broadcasts of shuttle launches there is a periodic hissing sound that can be heard before liftoff. These sounds seem to pulse in a regular rhythmic pattern. Can someone explain what the cause of these sounds are?
Because the vehicle has to pass by you to hear the boom. When the shuttle was going to launch from VAFB, it would have passed over the Channel Islands and a boom would have heard. Since the islands were the home of many pinnipeds (seals), there was concern that during the breeding season, a boom would have made the mothers rush for the water causing the pups to be crushed.
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#118
by
haywoodfloyd
on 02 Jul, 2009 11:46
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Because the vehicle has to pass by you to hear the boom. When the shuttle was going to launch from VAFB, it would have passed over the Channel Islands and a boom would have heard. Since the islands were the home of many pinnipeds (seals), there was concern that during the breeding season, a boom would have made the mothers rush for the water causing the pups to be crushed.
Did they have the same concerns about thunderstorms?
I believe they are rare out there, also most thunderstorm build up and not have an "out of the blue" boom
A "near-by" lightning strike can, in the right atmospheric conditions, produce a clap of thunder in the 120 dB range.
I doubt that the Orbiter at 60,000 feet can hit that level.
I could be wrong.
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#119
by
Jorge
on 02 Jul, 2009 15:28
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Essentially, the situation (to simplify your words) is this:
If there's a one way arrow between modes, you cant go backwards because the system won't let you (ILLEGAL ENTRY?), so by my reckoning the only way would be to manually load into memory the program you want. Which, I understand, is time consuming.
As for your point about not being able to go back to OPS 2 because the deorbit burn was already done, I'm sure it could be done manually, there'd just be little use for OPS 2 at that point.
Can someone help me out here, I'm wondering how badly I'm understanding this. DPS is a little sketchy for me so this is a learning curve.
You can get just about anywhere from OPS 0, but OPS 000 PRO is not a legal transition from 304.
However, you can force a GPC to OPS 0 by taking the GPC MODE switch to STBY and back to RUN.
So... you take GPCs 1-4 to STBY, then back to RUN, one at a time. Once you have done this, you will have a GPC common set in OPS 0. The vehicle will not be controllable at this point! Check memory config 3 (ITEM 1+3), should be fine since you used it earlier to transition to OPS 3 the first time around, then invoke the NBAT with OPS 301 PRO. Now the vehicle is under control again.
May need to clean up the BFS afterward. I never certified DPS so not my specialty.
Tried this in the NGSMS this morning... worked. In the middle, I did get paranoid about losing PASS CRT interface and worked around it by taking the CRT1 major function switch to PL, then using one of the remaining PASS GPCs to hard-assign GPC1 to CRT1. (Then of course I had to remember to take CRT1 back to GNC before doing the OPS 301 PRO). As expected, the BFS went standalone when the PASS set went away. Probably broke every one of the "good DPS habits" in the process, but I did get back to 301.
