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LIVE: STS-125 Flight Day 13 - EOM+1 - WAVE OFF ALL OPS
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 00:33
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#1
by
stockman
on 23 May, 2009 00:43
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First Landing opportunity ground tracks
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#2
by
stockman
on 23 May, 2009 00:43
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Second landing opportunities - ground tracks
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#3
by
stockman
on 23 May, 2009 00:44
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Third Landing opportunity - ground track
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#4
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 02:42
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Weather still suspect for Florida tomorrow. 60% chance of Cb's.
Edwards expected to be OK.
No decisions until after crew wakeup.
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#5
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 02:58
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Crew wake in just over 2 hours. Reentry team on at 2 AM when first order of business will be landing decisions.
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#6
by
Ford Mustang
on 23 May, 2009 04:58
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Crew wake is less than 4 minutes from now.
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#7
by
Ford Mustang
on 23 May, 2009 05:02
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Shannon Lucid waking up the crew for, what is hopefully, their landing day.
It's the Enterprise theme song, played for the entire crew, it sounds like.
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#8
by
Ford Mustang
on 23 May, 2009 05:08
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"Expecting about the same today as we saw yesterday at KSC.. but with a 60% chance of storms today."
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#9
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 05:16
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FOr first opportunity, deorbit preps will begin at 3:00 CT. PLBD close at 4:20.
At 5:20 STA circuits would begin and astronauts would be suited up and seated by 6:00. Go - no go for deorbit burn at 6:20.
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#10
by
Ford Mustang
on 23 May, 2009 06:03
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Guys on board feel fine and ready to enter, "waved off" the PMC for today.
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#11
by
Orbital Debris
on 23 May, 2009 07:44
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Edwards PAO recording says that the east Rogers Dry lake viewing area will not be open for Saturday (as of 2 pm friday recording). Does anyone know where the best place to view from Off base is? I've driven in from Las Vegas and spending the night in Barstow. We are going to get up at 0530, and call the MER for status.
TIA!
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#12
by
chksix
on 23 May, 2009 08:16
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Big picture: They will press on through door closure but hold off at suit up.
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#13
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 08:39
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#14
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 09:01
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Polling for PLBD closure.
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#15
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 09:02
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GO for PLBD Closure. Will be pre-empted by Radiator Bypass to FES.
Timeline tagup:
Step 1-11 Bypass on time.
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#16
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 09:03
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Holding off on suiting up. Monitoring on the weather. Better spin in the last hour or so.
Scooter (excited) "Ok, we like the way this is coming up!"
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#17
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 09:22
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Aft hoses are not visible from cameras (?) B & C. Discussing methods to capture images.
Door closing underway
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#18
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 09:23
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Steve Lindsay airbourne in T38 assessing weather.
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#19
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 09:25
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Hmm yeah, they need to confirm all four radiator retract hoses haven't bent.
Port door now closing.
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#20
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 09:33
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Port closed.
OPS2 to OPS3 is go via polling.
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#21
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 09:33
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Port door closed, starboard door in work.
FD polling for transfer to ops 3
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#22
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 09:34
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Steve Lindsey checking weather to the south in the T-38.
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#23
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 09:35
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Steve Lindsay flying to south and east checking approaching weather.
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#24
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 09:35
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Nominal PLBD closing. Go for ops 3 transition.
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#25
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 09:38
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#26
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 09:50
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MCC: "Unless you need em, take the forward payload bay floods to off"
Atlantis: " We're showing those as off"
Minor stuff but an interesting exchange, MCC had no direct data but was inferring lights were on from other indications.
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#27
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 09:52
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Look at that, a small transfer down the rbar and they are home. Pity about all that energy and orbital mechanics stuff.
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#28
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 09:56
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Atlantis is now moving to ops 3. (04:56 CDT approx)
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#29
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 10:01
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Atlantis: "Here comes ops 301 to expand the set."
MCC: "We are ready."
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#30
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 10:05
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Atlantis: Standing by for targets and state vector uplink.
MCC: State vector not required, targets ready to upload.
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#31
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 10:06
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Atlantis is go to suit up and press ahead to fluid loading. Next check is before start of fluid loading.
Weather is dynamic and is still on the border.
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#32
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 10:08
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Deorbit burn for first opportunity is 1:55 from now.
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#33
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 10:15
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Blocks 13, 14 and 16 complete, block 15 in work.
I'm not following the detailed checklist but I trust that means something to those who are.
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#34
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 10:23
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Steve Lindsey taxiing out in the STA to check local conditions.
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#35
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 10:28
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Atlantis crew going through suiting up and switch verification tasks.
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#36
by
DaveS
on 23 May, 2009 10:30
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#37
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 10:32
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Atlantis has go through nominal deorbit prep through IMU align up to fluid loading. Seems an elaboration on previous clearances.
PAD is ready and waiting on Scooter to finish getting into his suit before it is copied up.
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#38
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 10:39
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Switch list verifications complete. Ready to copy PAD.
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#39
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 10:46
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PAD's copied up and verified. Burn would be 2:32 in duration.
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#40
by
EirikV
on 23 May, 2009 10:49
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Some highlights:
EI-5 r263p325y313
First rev at 21300
Runway 33 at KSC, short field speedbrake setting 53% at 3k, light winds all the way down to 120*8P14 on the surface
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#41
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 10:54
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Flight control team currently receiving detailed weather briefing. STA checking out actual conditions.
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#42
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 10:59
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Already waving off Opportunity 1 - no surprise.
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#43
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 11:00
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Wave off this rev.
No backout required.
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#44
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 11:02
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#45
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 11:03
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Just on sunrise at KSC. Not very encouraging
Next two TIG's Edwards 19:26:50
KSC 19:43:30
Will work towards Edwards TIG but will keep close eye on KSC to see what daytime heating does.
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#46
by
psloss
on 23 May, 2009 11:06
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Not expecting to call the crew for about an hour.
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#47
by
shuttlefanatic
on 23 May, 2009 11:13
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Already waving off Opportunity 1 - no surprise.
Any word on intent to land somewhere today (i.e. EDW) vs. waiting until tomorrow? I know how much they like "keeping options open", but I just don't see KSC happening today...
I'll have to keep my options open and hit the road for EDW in the next 30 mins or so...
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#48
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 11:16
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Already waving off Opportunity 1 - no surprise.
Any word on intent to land somewhere today (i.e. EDW) vs. waiting until tomorrow? I know how much they like "keeping options open", but I just don't see KSC happening today...
I'll have to keep my options open and hit the road for EDW in the next 30 mins or so...
No official word. The real question will be how KSC looks tomorrow.
If there's a reasonable chance of landing at KSC tomorrow, then that'll move this into tomorrow. If KSC tomorrow looks "dynamic" then the feeling is Edwards today.
You never know, KSC op 2 today might improve.
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#49
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 11:16
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Already waving off Opportunity 1 - no surprise.
Any word on intent to land somewhere today (i.e. EDW) vs. waiting until tomorrow? I know how much they like "keeping options open", but I just don't see KSC happening today...
I'll have to keep my options open and hit the road for EDW in the next 30 mins or so...
Only comment so far is two (make that four) posts up. Will work on Edwards but keep KSC open as long as possible.
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#50
by
MikeMi.
on 23 May, 2009 11:35
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And how is looking EDW like now? As I listen carefully PAO doesnt mention about weather conditions there..
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#51
by
Ronsmytheiii
on 23 May, 2009 11:37
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#52
by
psloss
on 23 May, 2009 11:41
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And how is looking EDW like now? As I listen carefully PAO doesnt mention about weather conditions there..
As Gary noted, Kyle Herring occasionally notes the weather at Edwards. There's less of a need to provide frequent Edwards weather status because in a couple of ways the current weather pattern there is the opposite of KSC -- it's static and it's favorable.
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#53
by
Ronsmytheiii
on 23 May, 2009 11:42
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Does not look like it is improving to me, but I am not a meteorologist,
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#54
by
MKremer
on 23 May, 2009 11:47
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Does not look like it is improving to me, but I am not a meteorologist,
Radar is looking worse. More and stronger rain clouds now around KSC.
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#55
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 11:56
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#56
by
mkirk
on 23 May, 2009 12:01
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#57
by
Gregster
on 23 May, 2009 12:04
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Excellent coverage!. This is my first time following a mission on this forum. Thanks to everyone who contributed.
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#58
by
Sherwood Nash
on 23 May, 2009 12:27
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Excellent coverage!. This is my first time following a mission on this forum. Thanks to everyone who contributed.
And me! very many thanks everyone
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#59
by
psloss
on 23 May, 2009 12:28
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Crew was go for IMU align a few minutes ago, still waiting for a call on Orbit 181.
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#60
by
mkirk
on 23 May, 2009 12:29
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Its all but official based on the MCC discussions, KSC is "no go" for today! Dohh!!
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#61
by
psloss
on 23 May, 2009 12:31
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Its all but official based on the MCC discussions, KSC is "no go" for today! Dohh!!
Guess we'll find out pretty soon if they've given up on Sunday.
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#62
by
psloss
on 23 May, 2009 12:34
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They haven't given up on KSC -- waving off for the day.
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#63
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 12:34
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Mr Knight tag up with the crew:
"The weather at KSC has not cooperated today. There's a chance we can land at KSC tomorrow. Waving off the day. Edwards good for Sunday and Monday if KSC does not favor us".
Didn't see that coming!
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#64
by
Riley1066
on 23 May, 2009 12:36
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Damn ... given how Time Warner Cable treats NASA TV coverage in this area ... I'm not too pleased about this
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#65
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 12:36
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First opportunity tomorrow at 7:58.
Edwards OK but White Sands not available
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#66
by
EirikV
on 23 May, 2009 12:37
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Sunday Landing Opportunities
10:01 a.m. Orbit 196 landing at Edwards (deorbit burn at 8:42 a.m.)
10:04 a.m. Orbit 196 landing at White Sands (deorbit burn at 8:46
a.m.)
10:10 a.m. Orbit 196 landing at Kennedy (deorbit burn at 8:57 a.m.)
11:39 a.m. Orbit 197 landing at Edwards (deorbit burn at 10:24 a.m.)
11:42 a.m. Orbit 197 landing at White Sands (deorbit burn at 10:29
a.m.)
11:48 a.m. Orbit 197 landing at Kennedy (deorbit burn at 10:42 a.m.)
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#67
by
Ronsmytheiii
on 23 May, 2009 12:38
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Mr Knight tag up with the crew:
"The weather at KSC has not cooperated today. There's a chance we can land at KSC tomorrow. Waving off the day. Edwards good for Sunday and Monday if KSC does not favor us".
Didn't see that coming!
Especially with the LiOH situation, Ii was convinced that they would try to get her home ASAP. Good for me though, now I can go to the strawberry festival!
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#68
by
ItsyAndy
on 23 May, 2009 12:38
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Sure NASA know better, but since already 2 days ago forecast for KSC was looking pretty bad, why not land yesterday to EDW and earn 2 days for ground ops? Guess anyway there are not added costs and not time lost for ground operation at EDW due to the weekend, so they thought wait and you never know...
Said that then now I would wait until tomorrow, unless even EDW forecast for tomorrow are bad.
Ciao!
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#69
by
woodvale1
on 23 May, 2009 12:38
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Looks like it may be a cost thing also
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#70
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 12:40
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After all the hand wringing about MMOD risk it seems rather strange that they are willing to leave everything swanning about up there for an extra couple of days just to avoid a cross country ferry.
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#71
by
ItsyAndy
on 23 May, 2009 12:41
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Mr Knight tag up with the crew:
"The weather at KSC has not cooperated today. There's a chance we can land at KSC tomorrow. Waving off the day. Edwards good for Sunday and Monday if KSC does not favor us".
Didn't see that coming!
OK. That is what I was just writing...
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#72
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 12:42
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Yeah, but it's not masses of cash to bring her back from California....and we do like a good Ferry flight coverage!
Her flow isn't too tight for STS-129 either, I believe.
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#73
by
psloss
on 23 May, 2009 12:42
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Especially with the LiOH situation, Ii was convinced that they would try to get her home ASAP. Good for me though, now I can go to the strawberry festival!
Probably says something about the priority to get back to KSC this mission.
(Also, haven't seen a clarification on if the LiOH situation is with orbiter LiOH or EMU LiOH...if it's the latter, it wouldn't matter when they land.)
After all the hand wringing about MMOD risk it seems rather strange that they are willing to leave everything swanning about up there for an extra couple of days just to avoid a cross country ferry.
Already executed a mitigation for that.
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#74
by
ItsyAndy
on 23 May, 2009 12:43
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After all the hand wringing about MMOD risk it seems rather strange that they are willing to leave everything swanning about up there for an extra couple of days just to avoid a cross country ferry.
I kinda agree and it is weird, but at this point I begin to understand what NASA is thinking... If right or wrong, dunno. Of course hope NASA knows better always.
Ciao!
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#75
by
psloss
on 23 May, 2009 12:44
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Yeah, but it's not masses of cash to bring her back from California....and we do like a good Ferry flight coverage!
Her flow isn't too tight for STS-129 either, I believe.
Don't doubt that they can make it happen if they land at Edwards, but if 127 flies on-time the OPF bays will be full at the end of June again.
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#76
by
dmac
on 23 May, 2009 12:46
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After all the hand wringing about MMOD risk it seems rather strange that they are willing to leave everything swanning about up there for an extra couple of days just to avoid a cross country ferry.
[/quote
Yes,in hindsight should it not of been Edwards from the start
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#77
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 12:47
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Booooooo!
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#78
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 12:49
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Already executed a mitigation for that.
Well perhaps, but the prime determinant of risk is exposure time, the rest is fiddling about the edges. If you are not up there you can't get hit.
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#79
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 12:51
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Might need another FES core dump, as they've noticed ice or slush in the system.
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#80
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 12:51
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Currently troubleshooting potential ice or slush in he radiators. HAs been seen before.
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#81
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 12:52
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Big picture words:
PLBDs closed until comfortable with the radiator situation. ALL OPTIONS REMAIN OPEN.
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#82
by
shuttlefan
on 23 May, 2009 12:52
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Already executed a mitigation for that.
Well perhaps, but the prime determinant of risk is exposure time, the rest is fiddling about the edges. If you are not up there you can't get hit.
I agree that, despite the mitigation of the space debris risk, they should've brought it down at Edward today. But what do I know.....
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#83
by
psloss
on 23 May, 2009 12:52
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Going to keep the payload bay doors closed until they are comfortable with the radiator situation and hold for now on de-orbit back out. (Crew is holding on getting out of their suits.)
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#84
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 12:52
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Ok, they may come home today after all if the radiator situation doesn't improve. However, they have seen it before, so I think that is just a contingency.
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#85
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 12:52
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Big picture. Going to keep PLBD closed until comfortable with radiator picture. Keeping all options open.
Crew to stay suited for the moment.
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#86
by
psloss
on 23 May, 2009 12:53
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Ok, they may come home today after all if the radiator situation doesn't improve. However, they have seen it before, so I think that is just a contingency.
Yes.
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#87
by
MikeMi.
on 23 May, 2009 12:56
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Whats up with White Sands that its not avaible on Sunday?
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#88
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 12:57
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Sunday will be landing day for Atlantis, either at Kennedy or Edwards.
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#89
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 12:57
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Whats up with White Sands that its not avaible on Sunday?
Its wet.
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#90
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 12:59
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Here we go:
"Confident the radiators are working, might just be a little bit cold. Good config, continue with deorbit back out".
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#91
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 13:00
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Confident that the radiators are working fine. Can proceed with deorbit prep backout.
Word on the suits momentarily.
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#92
by
robertross
on 23 May, 2009 13:09
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Thanks for the coverage guys. It was looking iffy there these last few posts with the radiator, but now I can get something accomplished today around the house now that it's a Sunday landing. Laters.
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#93
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 13:11
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Scooter: "Atlantis is performing nicely." - he's praised the orbiter a few times on this mission. Nice to hear.
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#94
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 13:14
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Are there any special drivers for landing back at KSC for this mission? I can't recall any other crew being subjected to this sort of landus interruptus treatment.
Not that they are likely to be complaining too much at getting additional on orbit time.
Crew has go to doff suits.
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#95
by
Jones36
on 23 May, 2009 13:15
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Man.... now how am I going to spend the morning.
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#96
by
Jester
on 23 May, 2009 13:16
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Man.... now how am I going to spend the morning.
sign up for L2 and go over the checklists and procedures for tomorrow ?
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#97
by
psloss
on 23 May, 2009 13:16
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Are there any special drivers for landing back at KSC for this mission? I can't recall any other crew being subjected to this sort of landus interruptus treatment.
Two wave-offs isn't unprecedented. The record is three:
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/smg/post113.htm
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#98
by
Jones36
on 23 May, 2009 13:19
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Man.... now how am I going to spend the morning.
sign up for L2 and go over the checklists and procedures for tomorrow ?
Ha ha (I knew someone would say it!)
Need to check the bank account and get back in.
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#99
by
Lawntonlookirs
on 23 May, 2009 13:23
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No go for today. I still think they should have landed at Edwards on Friday. However the low pressure that was in the Gulf is starting to move north, so maybe Sunday will be a good day. Lets hope. Get some sleep Chris, you deserve it.
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#100
by
shaula1247
on 23 May, 2009 13:27
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I don't know about Chris, it's only early afternoon for him, but I'm definitely for beddy byes. cya.
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#101
by
shuttlefanatic
on 23 May, 2009 13:38
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My turn to thank all involved in this site and especially the live forum contributors. The forums come through nicely on my weak cell phone web browser, and were very helpful when I was in FL for the STS-119 launch and again this morning.
This morning I was 1 hour into a 3 hour roadtrip to EDW when I got the word on the waveoff from this forum. Saved me a bunch of useless driving!
To echo Chris's earlier comment... I really didn't expect the waveoff today when the SMG forecast came out with landing rule violations for tomorrow at KSC.
Guess we'll do this all over again tomorrow :\
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#102
by
chksix
on 23 May, 2009 14:02
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I hope they get some extra IMAX footage during the extra days
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#103
by
stockman
on 23 May, 2009 14:03
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I posted this on the WEATHER thread but it may be more applicable here - re all the negative talk about staying up an extra day???
.....
I am shaking my head at this too today. Way too much worry about an extra day especially around the mmod risks... This has been way overblown... I would expect it from main stream media to overblow this but quite frankly it is almost a non issue... I was very surpised to read the comments by people on this forum being so concerned.. (note I am not saying it is NOT an issue... its just one that has been there forever anyway but only recently has been grabbed in the main stream as something that is supposed to be an extreme risk.... its the same risk it has always been)... I say enjoy the extra day in orbit... Wish I was so "inconvenienced" as the astronauts are.... lol..
......
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#104
by
Chandonn
on 23 May, 2009 14:03
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I hope they get some extra IMAX footage during the extra days
I believe they've already used up all the IMAX film earlier in the mission.
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#105
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 14:08
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Some internal joke going on, the laughter even made the loop and poor Scooter didn't seem to be in on it!
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#106
by
stockman
on 23 May, 2009 14:47
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I don't think I have ever noticed this before. This display for orientation always had just water and land as part of the basic map... This one seems to display some of the Weather around florida in the upper left display.. First time I recall seeing that..
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#107
by
Jason
on 23 May, 2009 14:51
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I don't think I have ever noticed this before. This display for orientation always had just water and land as part of the basic map... This one seems to display some of the Weather around florida in the upper left display.. First time I recall seeing that..
Thats the water color around the Bahamas
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#108
by
psloss
on 23 May, 2009 15:23
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The ground is passing on the news of the President's nominations to the crew. Scott Altman says "I guess it wasn't any of us on the crew after all."
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#109
by
C5C6
on 23 May, 2009 15:40
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I posted this on the WEATHER thread but it may be more applicable here - re all the negative talk about staying up an extra day???
.....
I am shaking my head at this too today. Way too much worry about an extra day especially around the mmod risks... This has been way overblown... I would expect it from main stream media to overblow this but quite frankly it is almost a non issue... I was very surpised to read the comments by people on this forum being so concerned.. (note I am not saying it is NOT an issue... its just one that has been there forever anyway but only recently has been grabbed in the main stream as something that is supposed to be an extreme risk.... its the same risk it has always been)... I say enjoy the extra day in orbit... Wish I was so "inconvenienced" as the astronauts are.... lol..
......
I wonder the same... I read so much talking about the LOC posibilities going up after the sattelite collision months ago and the possibilities of cancelling STS-125 because of MMOD risks...and now they extend mission duration 2 days out of 12, 15%....hope some of the experts can clarify this it will be much thanked.....
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#110
by
psloss
on 23 May, 2009 15:46
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I wonder the same... I read so much talking about the LOC posibilities going up after the sattelite collision months ago and the possibilities of cancelling STS-125 because of MMOD risks...and now they extend mission duration 2 days out of 12, 15%....
The mission has been baselined as 11+0+2 for a while now -- in other words, the weather extension days are part of the plan. The risk assessments were very likely based on that.
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#111
by
rdale
on 23 May, 2009 15:50
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and the possibilities of cancelling STS-125 because of MMOD risks...and now they extend mission duration 2 days out of 12, 15%....hope some of the experts can clarify this it will be much thanked.....
You misinterpreted what you read. Just because the experts said "MMOD risk is up" is not the same as "We're going to cancel the mission." Again - if you are scared of ever losing a shuttle from MMOD (which if I recall has NEVER happened in nearly 30 years) then you shouldn't be launching in the first place.
This delay does not dramatically increase the risk to the crew. It potentially DRAMATICALLY decreases the cost and complexity of bring the shuttle back to KSC.
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#112
by
Gary
on 23 May, 2009 16:49
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I think many people have also missed the orbit adjust manoeuvre that was done after they undocked from hubble which reduces the MMOD risk and they are flying in a MMOD safe orientation.
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#113
by
the_other_Doug
on 23 May, 2009 16:50
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No go for today. I still think they should have landed at Edwards on Friday.
Problem is, it costs many millions of dollars extra to ferry a shuttle back to KSC from Edwards. (Back in the early '80s, when I last heard the price tag for this, it was something like $2 million per ferry assignment; I'd have to think that, with inflation, that would be up to $10 million or more today.)
With funding tight for *everything* at NASA these days, you really can't blame them for going the extra mile (so to speak) to try and get a KSC landing...
-the other Doug
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#114
by
Jorge
on 23 May, 2009 16:51
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I think many people have also missed the orbit adjust manoeuvre that was done after they undocked from hubble which reduces the MMOD risk and they are flying in a MMOD safe orientation.
That is correct. The main MMOD risks on this mission were while HST was in the payload bay, both because the orbiter was at a higher altitude and because HST constrained the orbiter from flying the lowest-risk attitudes for MMOD.
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#115
by
Jorge
on 23 May, 2009 16:52
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I posted this on the WEATHER thread but it may be more applicable here - re all the negative talk about staying up an extra day???
.....
I am shaking my head at this too today. Way too much worry about an extra day especially around the mmod risks... This has been way overblown... I would expect it from main stream media to overblow this but quite frankly it is almost a non issue... I was very surpised to read the comments by people on this forum being so concerned.. (note I am not saying it is NOT an issue... its just one that has been there forever anyway but only recently has been grabbed in the main stream as something that is supposed to be an extreme risk.... its the same risk it has always been)... I say enjoy the extra day in orbit... Wish I was so "inconvenienced" as the astronauts are.... lol..
......
I wonder the same... I read so much talking about the LOC posibilities going up after the sattelite collision months ago and the possibilities of cancelling STS-125 because of MMOD risks...
There was never any possibility of cancelling STS-125 because of this. Rumors to the contrary were just that.
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#116
by
lcs
on 23 May, 2009 17:13
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That is correct. The main MMOD risks on this mission were while HST was in the payload bay, both because the orbiter was at a higher altitude and because HST constrained the orbiter from flying the lowest-risk attitudes for MMOD.
The current orbital elements show 300 x 560 km. So they are still traversing the hazardous debris regions at higher altitude. I would guess collision avoidance calculations are more involved for elliptical orbits and your overall probability for a hit is increased, since you are trading off time spent at a fixed higher altitude, with traversing a larger number of potential debris orbits between 300 and 560 km.
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#117
by
Paul Adams
on 23 May, 2009 18:49
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Are Sunday's ground tracks up anywhere yet?
Thanks,
Paul
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#118
by
psloss
on 23 May, 2009 18:53
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#119
by
shuttlefanatic
on 23 May, 2009 19:07
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No go for today. I still think they should have landed at Edwards on Friday.
Problem is, it costs many millions of dollars extra to ferry a shuttle back to KSC from Edwards. (Back in the early '80s, when I last heard the price tag for this, it was something like $2 million per ferry assignment; I'd have to think that, with inflation, that would be up to $10 million or more today.)
I've been wondering how much each extra day of flight ops costs (with respect to MCC controller and facility, ground crew callups, etc.).
I didn't realize the $2M price tag on a ferry assignment was 20 years old, but using that number, and a WAG of $1M/day flight cost, it quickly becomes a wash between waiting for KSC and landing at EDW.
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#120
by
JSCJohn5
on 23 May, 2009 20:51
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Latest article, including some of the ASA MMT content:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/05/atlantis-targets-expansive-asa-contingency-plan/
That's our 114th article on STS-125, new mission record for the site.
Congratulations. The quality of this news site's articles are superb, and you are doing us a service by not shying from the complicated subject matter, making it understandable for interested members of the public and without the dramatics some journalists use.
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#121
by
shuttlefanatic
on 23 May, 2009 21:35
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Sunday Landing Opportunities
10:01 a.m. Orbit 196 landing at Edwards (deorbit burn at 8:42 a.m.)
10:04 a.m. Orbit 196 landing at White Sands (deorbit burn at 8:46
a.m.)
10:10 a.m. Orbit 196 landing at Kennedy (deorbit burn at 8:57 a.m.)
11:39 a.m. Orbit 197 landing at Edwards (deorbit burn at 10:24 a.m.)
11:42 a.m. Orbit 197 landing at White Sands (deorbit burn at 10:29
a.m.)
11:48 a.m. Orbit 197 landing at Kennedy (deorbit burn at 10:42 a.m.)
It doesn't look like there's an EDW opportunity on orbit 196, or at least it's not being considered. Landing tracks are up for:
KSC orbit 196, landing 10:10A (EDT)
EDW orbit 197, landing 11:39A
KSC orbit 197, landing 11:48A
EDW orbit 198, landing 1:18P
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#122
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 21:35
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Latest article, including some of the ASA MMT content:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/05/atlantis-targets-expansive-asa-contingency-plan/
That's our 114th article on STS-125, new mission record for the site.
Congratulations. The quality of this news site's articles are superb, and you are doing us a service by not shying from the complicated subject matter, making it understandable for interested members of the public and without the dramatics some journalists use.
Thank you sir!
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#123
by
hygoex
on 23 May, 2009 23:19
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What are they doing up there right now? NASA TV is showing one of the spacewalks from earlier.
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#124
by
MikeMi.
on 23 May, 2009 23:21
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What are they doing up there right now?
I think they are sleeping right now..
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#125
by
Chris Bergin
on 23 May, 2009 23:22
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Yep, sleep time.
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#126
by
robertross
on 23 May, 2009 23:37
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No go for today. I still think they should have landed at Edwards on Friday.
Problem is, it costs many millions of dollars extra to ferry a shuttle back to KSC from Edwards. (Back in the early '80s, when I last heard the price tag for this, it was something like $2 million per ferry assignment; I'd have to think that, with inflation, that would be up to $10 million or more today.)
I've been wondering how much each extra day of flight ops costs (with respect to MCC controller and facility, ground crew callups, etc.).
I didn't realize the $2M price tag on a ferry assignment was 20 years old, but using that number, and a WAG of $1M/day flight cost, it quickly becomes a wash between waiting for KSC and landing at EDW.
Well I'm going to take a LOT of flak for this one, but "frankly my dear, I couldn't give a damn"..
Let's just 'suppose', something were to happen (mmod, major system failure), and all this time they had the chance to come home, but in the interests of saving a few million, compared to several billion dollars of flight hardware, they decide to wait it out in orbit.
We also have the ASA issues, and despite all the analyses done, it is far SAFER to land her at Edwards than KSC.
We could lose the shuttle permanently, therefore ISS completion would NOT happen. The 6-person crew for ISS WOULD NOT happen. It may even go so far as them putting off manned spaceflight to the moon indefinitely if they so choosed.
I say it's EOM, get them home. IMO, that call should have been Friday or EDW.
I'm not ducking on this one, so fire away. If we want to start a new thread, so be it. IMO, this delay is wrong.
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#127
by
shuttlefanatic
on 24 May, 2009 00:06
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There's been some discussions on other threads regarding bagging the mission at EDW Friday or today vs waiting for KSC on Sunday. I'm curious to explore the cost benefit analysis of this decision...
Arguments for staying up:
- They're already up there, and staying on orbit is free
- EDW landing delays processing flow, so worth waiting for KSC
- KSC landing reduces cost and risks associated with ferry
- MMOD and other risks are very small
Arguments for coming down:
- Staying up incurs extra risks, however minor. Safety is first, isn't it?
- Staying on orbit also delays processing flow, though less than an EDW landing
- Staying on orbit also adds costs (ground support, MCC ops, etc.)
- Weather forecasts appeared poor enough that landing might eventually be at EDW anyway, at which point you're paying both costs.
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#128
by
shuttlefanatic
on 24 May, 2009 00:08
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I'm not ducking on this one, so fire away. If we want to start a new thread, so be it. IMO, this delay is wrong.
Ok, I'm curious to discuss this too, and have felt bad editorializing on the live / weather threads... Here's a thread I set up for further discussions:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=17173.0
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#129
by
RafaelCE
on 24 May, 2009 00:17
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I concur. Increased risk of MMOD strike and implications is not worth any savings in cost. Of course it depends on what the risk figure vs the regular ISS flights is.
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#130
by
robertross
on 24 May, 2009 00:18
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Copying this posting I made over from landing day EOM +1...
Well I'm going to take a LOT of flak for this one, but "frankly my dear, I couldn't give a damn"..
Let's just 'suppose', something were to happen (mmod, major system failure), and all this time they had the chance to come home, but in the interests of saving a few million, compared to several billion dollars of flight hardware, they decide to wait it out in orbit.
We also have the ASA issues, and despite all the analyses done, it is far SAFER to land her at Edwards than KSC.
We could lose the shuttle permanently, therefore ISS completion would NOT happen. The 6-person crew for ISS WOULD NOT happen. It may even go so far as them putting off manned spaceflight to the moon indefinitely if they so choosed.
I say it's EOM, get them home. IMO, that call should have been Friday or EDW.
I'm not ducking on this one, so fire away. If we want to start a new thread, so be it. IMO, this delay is wrong.
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#131
by
RafaelCE
on 24 May, 2009 00:24
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Great article as always Chris.
The pic choice was a little tricky thoug. Just read it, back from the office, and first instant thought was: hey, wasn't today waved off? (lol)
Where can we get the image for may 19th article?
Thanks!
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#132
by
robertross
on 24 May, 2009 00:24
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I'll also add...
1) that once STS-400 stood down because they couldn't get a rescue shuttle up in time before consumables ran out should have been a driving factor
2) The late day inspection via OBSS might have been fine for when it was performed, but an mmod strike on the belly may not get recorded accurately enough, if at all to the level required for a safe landing. And there may not be enough time to do a repair EVA to be in a good config to land safely either.
Too many unknowns and too many things that could go wrong. Back tomorrow, have to run out.
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#133
by
Carl G
on 24 May, 2009 00:55
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Merged a duplicate discussion thread and a post from FD13 into here.
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#134
by
rdale
on 24 May, 2009 01:48
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We also have the ASA issues, and despite all the analyses done, it is far SAFER to land her at Edwards than KSC.
I'd suggest you follow space news sites like
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com - somehow your source of info is ALL messed up if you think there is an increased risk of disaster from ASA.
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#135
by
Chris Bergin
on 24 May, 2009 10:00
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Great article as always Chris.
The pic choice was a little tricky thoug. Just read it, back from the office, and first instant thought was: hey, wasn't today waved off? (lol)
Where can we get the image for may 19th article?
Thanks!
The headline kinda explained it
Image from the May 19th article is one of the hi res set on L2.
