LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14

[Ben the Space Brit]

The cynic in me wonders if the slow response is due to SpaceX's focus moving to the Falcon-9, so flights of the Falcon-1 is reduced to 'other stuff we do'.  If so (especially when you consider the fact that Falcon-9 has never flown, indeed is not even flight-ready), I have to say it is a bit silly.

Re: Smallsats.  Either here or on the Q&A thread, someone mentioned that Elon Musk has said that a few small cubesats will be launched with a Falcon-9 some time.  With all due respect, why risk them on the Falcon-9? Put them on a F-1, get them up sooner and let the F-9 team focus on getting their own product operational - it is SpaceX's 'flagship' after all! I would have thought that Mr. Musk would have learnt from the test payloads he lost on early F-1 flights not to risk paying customers (or goodwill customers) payloads on untested or lightly-tested vehicles.

[ugordan]

a few small cubesats will be launched with a Falcon-9 some time.  With all due respect, why risk them on the Falcon-9? Put them on a F-1, get them up sooner and let the F-9 team focus on getting their own product operational

So you would rather they dedicated an entire F1 launch with the price tag it comes with just so they would carry a couple of kilograms to orbit? Wouldn't it be easier to simply shove the cubesats on one of the Dragon flights in the unpressurized trunk and have them have a simple deploy mechanism? Presto - virtually a free ride.

[NUAETIUS]

Re: Smallsats.  Either here or on the Q&A thread, someone mentioned that Elon Musk has said that a few small cubesats will be launched with a Falcon-9 some time.  With all due respect, why risk them on the Falcon-9? Put them on a F-1, get them up sooner and let the F-9 team focus on getting their own product operational - it is SpaceX's 'flagship' after all! I would have thought that Mr. Musk would have learnt from the test payloads he lost on early F-1 flights not to risk paying customers (or goodwill customers) payloads on untested or lightly-tested vehicles.

In the next 18 months SpaceX has to construct and certify 27+56 Merlin IC (They only have 6), 6 Merlin Vac (only 1 currently), 2 Kestrel, 2 Falcon 1 2nd stages, and 2 new Falcon 1E 1st stages, 9 F9 1st Stages (have only 1), 9 F9 Second Stages(only have 1), and 4 Dragon Spacecraft (only have 1).  All this while finishing up SLC 40, COTS reviews, and expanding their workforce.

Being a cubesat launcher is the last of SpaceX's worries this year.  The real worry I have for SpaceX is that Falcon1 Flight 1 style failure of the Falcon 9 will not be tolerated.  If the Falcon 9 get's aborted at the Cape it will be on every News channel in the country, but if they succeed, it will be barely noticed.

[stockman]

In the next 18 months SpaceX has to construct and certify 27+56 Merlin IC (They only have 6), 6 Merlin Vac (only 1 currently), 2 Kestrel, 2 Falcon 1 2nd stages, and 2 new Falcon 1E 1st stages, 9 F9 1st Stages (have only 1), 9 F9 Second Stages(only have 1), and 4 Dragon Spacecraft (only have 1).  All this while finishing up SLC 40, COTS reviews, and expanding their workforce.

I am not questioning your logic but I am just curious - where did you get these figures of exactly what they have made to date? Did you get a manifest of current product in their warehouse or are you basing it on some other information... Again, just curious if these are estimated numbers based on what have seen to date or if I have missed some document that outlines what they have actually manufactured to date...

thanks in advance.

[Antares]

If the Falcon 9 get's aborted at the Cape it will be on every News channel in the country, but if they succeed, it will be barely noticed.

That risk/no reward trade is something I hadn't thought of.

[ugordan]

If the Falcon 9 get's aborted at the Cape it will be on every News channel in the country, but if they succeed, it will be barely noticed.

That risk/no reward trade is something I hadn't thought of.

Coincidentally, the same would apply for Ares I-X.

Both teams I think are secretly praying their vehicle at least gets far enough downrange so as to be out of plain sight and many of the cameras.

[edkyle99]

The people who have to sign off on PR content are all really really really busy?

Press releases usually appear to come out of a "can", so to speak.  Pre-prepared and pre-approved, to some extent, with maybe a sentence or two customized with launch day specifics.  I wouldn't be surprised to see releases pre-prepared for both the possibility of success and failure.  ULA, Arianespace, ILS, etc., and their subcontractors, let the press releases fly seemingly within minutes of a launch mission's completion.

A company with now 800-ish employees doesn't have one person available with authority to communicate that company's greatest success to date to the news media?  I don't buy it. 

The result of this lack of communication?  See if you can find a SpaceX story at Aviation Week.  Do a search for "spacex" stories in the New York Times, or the Chicago Tribune, written during the past week.  Etc.

 - Ed Kyle

[Nate_Trost]

In the next 18 months SpaceX has to construct and certify 27+56 Merlin IC (They only have 6), 6 Merlin Vac (only 1 currently), 2 Kestrel, 2 Falcon 1 2nd stages, and 2 new Falcon 1E 1st stages, 9 F9 1st Stages (have only 1), 9 F9 Second Stages(only have 1), and 4 Dragon Spacecraft (only have 1).  All this while finishing up SLC 40, COTS reviews, and expanding their workforce.

Worse than that, they have to finish qualifying and start building the Merlins with the turbopump upgrade (for F1e and F9 Block II). So probably only 27 Merlin 1C and 56 Merlin '1D'.

Due to staffing up for COTS and CRS, in a way SpaceX is already too 'big' for Falcon 1. They don't even have current pricing for F1e, the initial number was $8.5 million. I'm guessing when numbers show up on the web site again it's at least $10 million. They have a $1,600 million contract to try and execute at the moment and a headcount of almost 800. In that context chasing a handful of Falcon 1e launches makes no sense.

[Antares]

Good grief y'all.  The people who needed to know about the launch knew.  Go back up the thread and notice where Chris's confirmation of spacecraft sep came from: NASA HQ.

And the people who need to know about the pricing of Falcons know.

[yinzer]

Good grief y'all.  The people who needed to know about the launch knew.  Go back up the thread and notice where Chris's confirmation of spacecraft sep came from: NASA HQ.

And the people who need to know about the pricing of Falcons know.

It's still a noticeable shift from their previous behavior.

[Jim]

They have a $1,600 million contract to try and execute at the moment and a headcount of almost 800. In that context chasing a handful of Falcon 1e launches makes no sense.

Not exactly.  They have a contract that could be up to 1.6 Billion.  They will be paid for each milestone they achieve for each mission.  Right now they have seen very little of this money.    They still need to complete COTS milestones too.

[ugordan]

It's still a noticeable shift from their previous behavior.

It's a little hypocritical to comment (not directed at you, but a general comment) on their lack of hyping-up the launch results everywhere, because not too long ago people were complaining about their overactive PR department.

You really cannot please everyone. I would rather have this outcome than a failed launch with a PR department swift to downplay it.

[Pittsburgh]

I never thought I'd see the day that SpaceX was drawing criticism for not hyping themselves enough.

[jimvela]

Being a cubesat launcher is the last of SpaceX's worries this year.  The real worry I have for SpaceX is that Falcon1 Flight 1 style failure of the Falcon 9 will not be tolerated.  If the Falcon 9 get's aborted at the Cape it will be on every News channel in the country, but if they succeed, it will be barely noticed.

Frankly, welcome to the launch vehicle provider business, SpaceX. 

It's what they wanted.  Now they have it. 

From here on out, they'll live or die based on how they perform (or don't). 

A really PR-conscious new provider might call the 1st F9 launch a test launch and lay the groundwork in everyone's mind that it's a test launch.  Might even get them some media exposure that way- Jane Sixpack loves drama, and Joe and the kids love to see things blow up.

I don't expect to see that first F9 end up a fireball on the pad or a hulk in the Banana river, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it ends up downrange in the Atlantic somewhere.

[edit- which coast is that pad on, again  ]

[Ben the Space Brit]

I never thought I'd see the day that SpaceX was drawing criticism for not hyping themselves enough.

It isn't really criticism.  It is more a sort of bemused wonderment as to what gives. 

One thing that SpaceX could never be accused of was being shy about their achievements.  It seems strangely out-of-character for them not to make more of a noise about their first successful full mission.  The only conclusion that makes sense to me is that something else (read: Falcon-9) is now their focus and Falcon-1 just isn't important enough to get the full court press treatment anymore.

[Jeff Bingham]

I never thought I'd see the day that SpaceX was drawing criticism for not hyping themselves enough.

It isn't really criticism.  It is more a sort of bemused wonderment as to what gives. 

One thing that SpaceX could never be accused of was being shy about their achievements.  It seems strangely out-of-character for them not to make more of a noise about their first successful full mission.  The only conclusion that makes sense to me is that something else (read: Falcon-9) is now their focus and Falcon-1 just isn't important enough to get the full court press treatment anymore.

SpaceX's notification to the Congress indicated that information about the spacecraft would come from the Malaysians, not SpaceX, so I would tend to chalk up any delay or less than "timely" reports as being a function of the Malaysian processes of information disclosure, and nothing to do with SpaceX.

[Antares]

Pesky customers

[Chris-A]

hi-res images from a press release here.
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090715006131&newsLang=en

[jhoblik]

I never thought I'd see the day that SpaceX was drawing criticism for not hyping themselves enough.

It isn't really criticism.  It is more a sort of bemused wonderment as to what gives. 

One thing that SpaceX could never be accused of was being shy about their achievements.  It seems strangely out-of-character for them not to make more of a noise about their first successful full mission.  The only conclusion that makes sense to me is that something else (read: Falcon-9) is now their focus and Falcon-1 just isn't important enough to get the full court press treatment anymore.

I am surprise how many people are underestimated their success. By the way it their second successfully launch not first one, as you mention.
I am amazed they will have two operational rocket done in 7 years period and without 1 bilion debt. I will call it success. At the end it is about price and reliability.

[jhoblik]

Being a cubesat launcher is the last of SpaceX's worries this year.  The real worry I have for SpaceX is that Falcon1 Flight 1 style failure of the Falcon 9 will not be tolerated.  If the Falcon 9 get's aborted at the Cape it will be on every News channel in the country, but if they succeed, it will be barely noticed.

Frankly, welcome to the launch vehicle provider business, SpaceX. 

It's what they wanted.  Now they have it. 

From here on out, they'll live or die based on how they perform (or don't). 

A really PR-conscious new provider might call the 1st F9 launch a test launch and lay the groundwork in everyone's mind that it's a test launch.  Might even get them some media exposure that way- Jane Sixpack loves drama, and Joe and the kids love to see things blow up.

I don't expect to see that first F9 end up a fireball on the pad or a hulk in the Banana river, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it ends up downrange in the Atlantic somewhere.

[edit- which coast is that pad on, again  ]

Did you predicted same fate for flight 4 and 5. If you check flight compare with rocket it was perfect. The only more stable is Space shuttle, if you check pictures. But it cost 1 billion one flight ouch.