Author Topic: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 1 Launch 5 (RazakSat) - July 13/14 (Read 361249 times)

Norm Hartnett · « **Reply #820 on:** 07/14/2009 07:32 pm »

Quote from: Avron on 07/14/2009 07:07 pm

Very nice , congrats, wonder if the 1st stage was tracked back to earth... I guess all the recovery stuff was taken off to reduce load for this launch

There were several comments during the launch that they were receiving good telemetry on both stages after separation.

nooneofconsequence · « **Reply #821 on:** 07/14/2009 07:33 pm »

Quote from: stockman on 07/14/2009 07:24 pm

Quote from: cheesybagel on 07/14/2009 07:07 pm
Contact has been made with the satellite:
http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v5/news_lite.php?id=425261

NOW can we call this a successful flight!!

Not yet - Jim has to go over the telemetry so as to show all the ways it wasn't as good as Celta or Taurus or Pegasus

Seriously, I'm just ecstatic that we don't have another Kistler!

We've got a new LV provider, and that's great for our industry!

ugordan · « **Reply #822 on:** 07/14/2009 07:35 pm »

Quote from: Norm Hartnett on 07/14/2009 07:32 pm

There were several comments during the launch that they were receiving good telemetry on both stages after separation.

That would be before the 1st stage was cooked on reentry. Remember that during staging it's going at 2.8 km/s uphill so it's got a couple of minutes before reentering. The same thing happened on previous flights.

Nick L. · « **Reply #823 on:** 07/14/2009 07:51 pm »

I (like Ed) have been looking through various onboard video from Delta II/IV and Atlas flights. Most don't show a clean view of the horizon at all but the ones that do are pretty stable with any disturbances settling out within a few oscillations.

I think the "wobbliness" of the stage is probably a combination of the small size, liquid fuel nature (which magnifies the effect of any slosh) and maybe a guidance system that needs a little more fine-tuning. Still it is a great accomplishment for SpaceX and they should be congratulated.

I can't wait for F9 - that will really be a sight!

iamlucky13 · « **Reply #824 on:** 07/14/2009 09:40 pm »

About the guidance system needing fine tuning:

I believe it was in a previous thread on this site that someone reported (although no corroboration provided) that SpaceX had changed the attitude control logic from a proportional algorithm to a proportional-integral one. That may have helped somewhat, but obviously the wobble is still there.

It may be that eliminating the wobble is of minor concern to them, or they've had trouble reducing it further. It's possible for the latter that, rather than further improvements to control, they need improvements to the mechanical hardware. Any actuator has limits on its accuracy, due to factors like hysteresis or temperature response. If that's the case, it's going to take longer and be more expensive to sort out the wobble.

jabe · « **Reply #825 on:** 07/14/2009 11:22 pm »

It was great to see they got the circularization burn video..cool to see. Love to see more F1 launches but they seem to be few on the manifest for now. I'm assuming the F1e maiden flight will just have some cubesats or some other "non crucial" (not sure what word to use there ) payload on board?
A little off topic...
anyone think it is strange the spacex/Elon haven't made their own press release over their success? I was half expecting one in my e-mail box this morning...
cheers
jb

blazotron · « **Reply #826 on:** 07/15/2009 03:36 am »

Quote from: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 07:51 pm

I (like Ed) have been looking through various onboard video from Delta II/IV and Atlas flights. Most don't show a clean view of the horizon at all but the ones that do are pretty stable with any disturbances settling out within a few oscillations.

I think the "wobbliness" of the stage is probably a combination of the small size, liquid fuel nature (which magnifies the effect of any slosh) and maybe a guidance system that needs a little more fine-tuning. Still it is a great accomplishment for SpaceX and they should be congratulated. I can't wait for F9 - that will really be a sight!

The Eutelsat W4 on Atlas 3 near the page bottom here:
http://www.eclipticenterprises.com/gallery_rocketcam.shtml
has some notable oscillation during flight.

NUAETIUS · « **Reply #827 on:** 07/15/2009 04:45 am »

I guess I just don't get this debate.

Falcon 1 is a bargain basement launcher, of course it has wobbly 1st and 2nd stages, uneven heating of the 2nd stage ablative, and any number of other quirks.

If the rocket reaches the proper orbit, without damaging the cargo, and can do it at a lower cost, who cares about reaction control that needs fine tuning.

The US now has a launcher, not just power point presentations, that is inline with the costs of Russian, Chinese, and Indian rockets.

IF SpaceX starts producing the Falcon 1 at any significant rate, which the manifest indicates they won't, I wonder what Orbital's response would be? Price war in the small launchers really could change things significantly.

Nick L. · « **Reply #828 on:** 07/15/2009 05:17 am »

Quote from: blazotron on 07/15/2009 03:36 am

Quote from: Nick L. on 07/14/2009 07:51 pm
I (like Ed) have been looking through various onboard video from Delta II/IV and Atlas flights. Most don't show a clean view of the horizon at all but the ones that do are pretty stable with any disturbances settling out within a few oscillations.

I think the "wobbliness" of the stage is probably a combination of the small size, liquid fuel nature (which magnifies the effect of any slosh) and maybe a guidance system that needs a little more fine-tuning. Still it is a great accomplishment for SpaceX and they should be congratulated. I can't wait for F9 - that will really be a sight!

The Eutelsat W4 on Atlas 3 near the page bottom here:
http://www.eclipticenterprises.com/gallery_rocketcam.shtml
has some notable oscillation during flight.

I did see that, however that looked like the oscillations were in first stage flight. Falcon showed some similar rolling motion but I think it is more acceptable in first stage because you are still dealing with aero loads etc.

As for why we are debating this, for me at least it is just a curiosity and nothing more, not an indictment of the engineering or design of Falcon. But it is ignoring seemingly small things like this that could (of course, not will) manifest in a serious problem down the road. Like I said, they got their payload into the right orbit and intact, so they deserve everyone's congratulations. Perhaps they should look into this just a little, try to understand it, and they will have one less thing to worry about in the future.

Antares · « **Reply #829 on:** 07/15/2009 05:25 am »

Quote from: iamlucky13 on 07/14/2009 09:40 pm

I believe it was in a previous thread on this site that someone reported (although no corroboration provided) that SpaceX had changed the attitude control logic from a proportional algorithm to a proportional-integral one.

I thought that was Antonio suggesting they should.

It may be nothing, and they'll have to answer it when customers start asking. Similar to the hydrogen fireball on Delta IV. It ain't pretty but it works.

Art LeBrun · « **Reply #830 on:** 07/15/2009 05:30 am »

Very transient but some Atlases had a clockwise roll at liftoff that was quickly damped out. Not sure of the cause unless it was the single turbine exhaust duct on the A-D and SLV-3 versions............

ugordan · « **Reply #831 on:** 07/15/2009 06:22 am »

This site reports RazakSAT is in a 674.6 x 694.7 km, 9.0 deg inclination orbit.

That gives eccentricity of 0.0014 and semimajor axis of 684.7 km

Nick L. · « **Reply #832 on:** 07/15/2009 06:58 am »

Quote from: ugordan on 07/15/2009 06:22 am

This site reports RazakSAT is in a 674.6 x 694.7 km, 9.0 deg inclination orbit.

That gives eccentricity of 0.0014 and semimajor axis of 684.7 km

Doesn't seem to be too far off target then. SpaceX PAO gave the target orbit as 685km circular at 9 degrees.

kkattula · « **Reply #833 on:** 07/15/2009 08:02 am »

Quote from: jabe on 07/14/2009 11:22 pm

...
A little off topic...
anyone think it is strange the spacex/Elon haven't made their own press release over their success? I was half expecting one in my e-mail box this morning...
cheers
jb

Maybe the customer asked them not to without clearing with them first. There was a little tension when the vibration issue was discovered.

Chris Bergin · « **Reply #834 on:** 07/15/2009 05:14 pm »

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact:
Emily Shanklin | Director, Marketing and Communications
[email protected]
310.363.6733

SPACEX’S FALCON 1 SUCCESSFULLY DELIVERS RAZAKSAT SATELLITE TO ORBIT

Hawthorne, CA (July 15, 2009) - Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX<http://www.spacex.com/>) announces the successful launch of Falcon 1<http://spacex.com/falcon1.php#falcon1_overview> and delivery of Malaysia’s RazakSAT into the correct orbit.

“This marks another successful launch by the SpaceX team,” said Elon Musk, CEO and CTO of SpaceX. “We are pleased to announce that Malaysia’s RazakSAT, aboard Falcon 1, has achieved the intended orbit.”

Falcon 1, a two-stage, liquid oxygen/rocket-grade kerosene vehicle designed and manufactured by SpaceX, lifted off Monday, July 13, at 8:35 pm (PDT). Lift off occurred from the Reagan Test Site (RTS) on Omelek Island at the U.S. Army Kwajalein Atoll (USAKA) in the Pacific Ocean, approximately 2,500 miles southwest of Hawaii.

RazakSAT was designed and built by Astronautic Technology (M) Sdn Bhd (ATSB), a pioneer and leader in the design and manufacture of satellites in Malaysia.

“Our ground systems were able to pick up communication from RazakSAT on its first pass,” said Norhizam Hamzah, Senior Vice President / Chief Technical Officer, Space Systems Division, ATSB. “The satellite is communicating as expected and our team will continue to monitor the data closely.”

Preliminary data indicates that the RazakSAT, equipped with a high resolution Medium-Sized Aperture Camera (MAC), achieved the intended Near-Equatorial Low Earth Orbit (NEqO) at 685 km altitude and a 9 degree inclination. The payload is expected to provide high resolution images of Malaysia that can be applied to land management, resource development and conservation, forestry and fish migration.

For more information about the Falcon family of vehicles, and to watch the Falcon 1 Flight 5 video, visit the SpaceX website at www.spacex.com<http://www.spacex.com/>

About SpaceX

SpaceX is developing a family of launch vehicles and spacecraft intended to increase the reliability and reduce the cost of both manned and unmanned space transportation, ultimately by a factor of ten. With the Falcon 1 and Falcon 9 vehicles, SpaceX offers highly reliable/cost-efficient launch capabilities for spacecraft insertion into any orbital altitude and inclination. Starting in 2010, SpaceX's Dragon spacecraft will provide Earth-to-LEO transport of pressurized and unpressurized cargo, including resupply to the International Space Station (ISS).

Founded in 2002, SpaceX is a private company owned by management and employees, with minority investments from Founders Fund and DFJ. The SpaceX team now numbers nearly 800, with corporate headquarters in Hawthorne, California. For more information, please visit the company’s web site at www.spacex.com<http://www.spacex.com/>.
# # #

Photo Links:
http://www.spacex.com/assets/img/Liftoff_south_FULL_QQ9L7636.jpg
http://www.spacex.com/assets/img/Liftoff_south_FULL_WIDE_RO8A1280.jpg
http://www.spacex.com/assets/img/Liftoff_west_FULL_WIDE_NN6P2062.jpg

Photo Caption: Liftoff of the Falcon 1 RazakSAT mission, from the SpaceX launch site on Omelek Island, US Army Kwajalein Atoll, in the Central Pacific, on 14 July 2009 at 03:35 UTC. Credit: SpaceX

edkyle99 · « **Reply #835 on:** 07/15/2009 06:59 pm »

Quote from: Chris Bergin on 07/15/2009 05:14 pm

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact:
Emily Shanklin | Director, Marketing and Communications
[email protected]
310.363.6733

SPACEX’S FALCON 1 SUCCESSFULLY DELIVERS RAZAKSAT SATELLITE TO ORBIT
...

About a day and a half late on that press release. The stories have already been written on this one.

- Ed Kyle

jabe · « **Reply #836 on:** 07/15/2009 07:31 pm »

Quote from: edkyle99 on 07/15/2009 06:59 pm

About a day and a half late on that press release. The stories have already been written on this one.

- Ed Kyle

pretty anti climatic.. but this makes it truly official. I wonder why the delay? I was expecting a little more flair to it for some reason.

jb

Nate_Trost · « **Reply #837 on:** 07/15/2009 07:58 pm »

The people who have to sign off on PR content are all really really really busy?

marsavian · « **Reply #838 on:** 07/15/2009 08:01 pm »

Quote from: jabe on 07/15/2009 07:31 pm

Quote from: edkyle99 on 07/15/2009 06:59 pm
About a day and a half late on that press release. The stories have already been written on this one.

- Ed Kyle
pretty anti climatic.. but this makes it truly official. I wonder why the delay? I was expecting a little more flair to it for some reason.
jb

Probably making 100% sure this time before claiming complete success.

zaitcev · « **Reply #839 on:** 07/15/2009 08:08 pm »

Quote from: NUAETIUS on 07/15/2009 04:45 am

The US now has a launcher, not just power point presentations, that is inline with the costs of Russian, Chinese, and Indian rockets.

I also think that it's quite surprising, although it's possible that the price is only sustainable as long as Falcon-1 taps on Elon's pocket. If it costs the same as today after 20 launches (in inflation-adjusted dollars), then perhaps we truly found a way to make a significant cost reduction.

Quote

IF SpaceX starts producing the Falcon 1 at any significant rate, which the manifest indicates they won't, I wonder what Orbital's response would be? Price war in the small launchers really could change things significantly.

The thin manifest of Falcon-1 is my major concern. Where are all those smallsat people? If $7 million for half a ton is not good enough for them, what is? Will they show up if "Falcon-1z" costs $3 millon? If they don't show up, does it make the Elon's vision of price reduction bogus?

In this context I don't know if I have to worry about the way Falcon-1e chases payload capacity.

-- Pete