Author Topic: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed  (Read 21632 times)

Offline AnimatorRob

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Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed:

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/090211-india-manned-spaceship.html

I didn't see this posted anywhere. If it has please delete.

Given the apparent size of the thing, 3 tons seems awfully light.

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #1 on: 02/11/2009 05:14 PM »

The Soyuz reentry shape wins again, looks quite roomy if the cutaway is properly scaled. What is the GSLV payload diameter?
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Offline Patchouli

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #2 on: 02/11/2009 05:43 PM »
Looks more like a scaled down Dragon reentry shape vs a Soyuz.
GSLV MK-II is less then half as powerful as F9 so it's pretty remarkable they figured out how to launch a 3 place vehicle on it.
But then moving a lot off stuff Dragon has in the reentry vehicle to a service module would save a lot of mass since you don't need thermo protection,parachutes, and a LAS to lift it.
Plus this vehicle likely lacks a lot of features commonly found on later western vehicles and many Russian vehicles as well.
It might be very spartan like Gemini was.
« Last Edit: 02/11/2009 05:52 PM by Patchouli »

Offline johnxx9

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #3 on: 02/12/2009 04:16 PM »

Offline johnxx9

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #4 on: 02/12/2009 04:24 PM »
Actually, we can see the adaptor on top. This is add the orbital module to it. The orbital module will be quite larger (larger than Soyuz and comparable to Shenzhou)

Service module + Re-entry module ------> GSLV Mk-2 (5 ton LEO capability)

Service module + Orbital module + Re-entry module ------> GSLV Mk-3 (13 tons to in basic version)       

The 1st design will be launched by 2015 because it is simpler and doesn't require a new launch vehicle.

Offline Slava33

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #5 on: 02/12/2009 05:34 PM »
Are those fins  :o on the bottom of the service module and the SRBs?

Online Ronsmytheiii

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #6 on: 02/13/2009 12:13 AM »
So what is the power source, odiously it is not solar panels.  Would It have Fuel cells or batteries.  I suspect the latter, which would make it primitive compared to other spacecraft....
And this is a good reminder that just because one of your fellow space enthusiasts occasionally voices doubts about the SpaceX schedule announcements or is cautious about believing SpaceX has licked a problem before actually seeing proof that's true, it doesn't mean they hate SpaceX.

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #7 on: 02/13/2009 12:44 AM »
So what is the power source, odiously it is not solar panels.  Would It have Fuel cells or batteries.  I suspect the latter, which would make it primitive compared to other spacecraft....

I suspect fuel cells as batteries would not have much endurance plus the fuel cells also produce water for drinking and cooling.

Offline hesidu

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #8 on: 02/13/2009 02:14 AM »
Don't you think it's a bit risky to use soild rocket boosters to launch manned space vehicle ? And also GSLV-MKII don't have a good successful rate.

Offline Marsman

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #9 on: 02/13/2009 02:25 AM »
Solids on a manned vehicle-Space Shuttle? Ares 1?

Offline Bubbinski

Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #10 on: 02/13/2009 04:11 AM »
Is the orbital module adapter also going to be a docking port?  Are the Indians planning a space station or man-tended lab of their own, or would they be more interested in joining the ISS program (and docking their craft there)?
I'll even excitedly look forward to "flags and footprints" and suborbital missions. Just fly...somewhere.

Offline kch

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #11 on: 02/13/2009 04:47 AM »
Are those fins  :o on the bottom of the service module and the SRBs?

Not sure about the service module, but they very well could be on the boosters -- have you forgotten that both the Saturn IB and Saturn V had fins?  ;)

Offline kch

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #12 on: 02/13/2009 04:51 AM »
Solids on a manned vehicle-Space Shuttle? Ares 1?

Not exactly unknown, is it?  Also, in this case, it's the first-stage *core* that uses solid propellant (as with Ares I) -- the strap-ons use liquid propellant ("LRBs").

Offline johnxx9

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #13 on: 02/14/2009 09:46 AM »
So what is the power source, odiously it is not solar panels.  Would It have Fuel cells or batteries.  I suspect the latter, which would make it primitive compared to other spacecraft....

No. There are solar panels. See this. It's the mission procedure as given by ISRO..........

It clearly shows solar panels

« Last Edit: 02/14/2009 09:48 AM by johnxx9 »

Online William Graham

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #14 on: 02/14/2009 10:30 AM »
And also GSLV-MKII don't have a good successful rate.

It hasn't been launched yet.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #15 on: 02/17/2009 03:17 PM »
Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed:

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/090211-india-manned-spaceship.html

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/008200902161951.htm

Here is the result of all the "India to launch crew into space in 2013" and "India to land man on Moon by 2020" hype. I will extract the key information from the article:

"The space agency has received Rs 50 crore for its programme to send a human in space. "


I believe that this is $10 million US, for their entire human spaceflight program.

Offline johnxx9

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #16 on: 02/17/2009 03:28 PM »
Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed:

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/090211-india-manned-spaceship.html

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/008200902161951.htm

Here is the result of all the "India to launch crew into space in 2013" and "India to land man on Moon by 2020" hype. I will extract the key information from the article:

"The space agency has received Rs 50 crore for its programme to send a human in space. "


I believe that this is $10 million US, for their entire human spaceflight program.


That is the allocation for the program from the main budget of ISRO. That 10 million will go for the SRE-2 and other technology demonstrators.

The manned mission budget ie 2.5 million USD has to be passed as a seperate bill by the Parliament. The Department of Space which is is incharge on the space program has already accepted the bill. The last stage is passing the bill by the Parliament. That will only take place once the new government comes to power in May this year.

The amount is so large, therefore it can't be passed as a part of ISRO's yearly budget. It has be passed as a seperate bill.   

Offline Swatch

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #17 on: 02/17/2009 03:42 PM »
Are those fins  :o on the bottom of the service module and the SRBs?

Not sure about the service module, but they very well could be on the boosters -- have you forgotten that both the Saturn IB and Saturn V had fins?  ;)


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Offline hesidu

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #18 on: 02/18/2009 03:04 AM »
And also GSLV-MKII don't have a good successful rate.

It hasn't been launched yet.

Sorry, I mean GSLV-MK1.

Offline johnxx9

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #19 on: 02/18/2009 08:32 AM »
And also GSLV-MKII don't have a good successful rate.

It hasn't been launched yet.

Sorry, I mean GSLV-MK1.

There has only been 5 fights of GSLV Mk-1 and 1 was unsuccessful. During that flight, the vehicle veered away from the trajectory due to a faulty thrust vectoring nozzle in a LSB. Therefore, the mission computer commanded the whole vehicle to self-destruct.

If anything of that sort happened during a manned flight, the mission computer would command mission abort and emergency escape. That's as simple as that. There was no complete failure of the GSLV Mk-1.

Online William Graham

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #20 on: 02/18/2009 08:39 AM »
And also GSLV-MKII don't have a good successful rate.

It hasn't been launched yet.

Sorry, I mean GSLV-MK1.

There has only been 5 fights of GSLV Mk-1 and 1 was unsuccessful. During that flight, the vehicle veered away from the trajectory due to a faulty thrust vectoring nozzle in a LSB. Therefore, the mission computer commanded the whole vehicle to self-destruct.

If anything of that sort happened during a manned flight, the mission computer would command mission abort and emergency escape. That's as simple as that. There was no complete failure of the GSLV Mk-1.

It would still have resulted in LOM, if not LOC.

Offline vkthakur

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #21 on: 02/19/2009 12:20 PM »
And also GSLV-MKII don't have a good successful rate.

It hasn't been launched yet.
My understanding is that ISRO does not officially have a GSLV Mk 2 launcher program, unless the man rated GSLV has been designated as Mk 2. Can someone confirm that?
The Indian press often refers to the GSLV D-3 launcher that will test the Cryogenic Upper Stage (CUS) as GSLV Mk 2 but the designation is not official.

Offline iamlucky13

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #22 on: 02/20/2009 03:39 AM »
And also GSLV-MKII don't have a good successful rate.

It hasn't been launched yet.

Sorry, I mean GSLV-MK1.

There has only been 5 fights of GSLV Mk-1 and 1 was unsuccessful. During that flight, the vehicle veered away from the trajectory due to a faulty thrust vectoring nozzle in a LSB. Therefore, the mission computer commanded the whole vehicle to self-destruct.

If anything of that sort happened during a manned flight, the mission computer would command mission abort and emergency escape. That's as simple as that. There was no complete failure of the GSLV Mk-1.

It would still have resulted in LOM, if not LOC.

The important question moving forward is whether or not they were successfully able to identify and address the root cause. According to wikipedia, it was a faulty propellant regulator. That doesn't sound like a showstopper.

Obviously, one of the benefits of deriving a manned launcher from an existing unmanned one is extra opportunity to find problems like this when there's no lives immediately at stake. Hopefully they'll have all the weaknesses ironed out by the time they attempt a manned mission. That failure was on the 4th flight of the GSLV. If they develop a new vehicle from the ground up and have three successful unmanned test flights, well...

Offline hesidu

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #23 on: 02/21/2009 06:02 AM »
If India manages to launch a man into space around 2015(7 years), it will be very impressive. China spent 11 years to put a man into space and cost more than 2$ billion from 1992-2003.

Any way, 2 man and 7 days in orbit ? India's first manned spaceship don't have orbit module. So where the toilet be ?
« Last Edit: 02/21/2009 08:41 AM by hesidu »

Online hop

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #24 on: 02/21/2009 08:29 AM »
If India manages to launch a man into space around 2015(7 years), it will be very impressive. China spent 11 years to put a man into space and cost more than 20$ billion from 1992-2003.
Historically, space projects take longer than initially projected. I may be mistaken, but ISTR the first Chinese flight was a few years later than initial estimates. It wouldn't be a surprise to see the same happen to India.
Quote
Any way, 2 man and 7 days in orbit ? India's first manned spaceship don't have orbit module. So where the toilet be ?
It looks a lot roomier than Gemini.

Offline johnxx9

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #25 on: 02/23/2009 06:26 AM »
News.......................

The 2.5 billion USD for Indian manned mission has been sanctioned and the program has now officially started. The first unmanned launch will be in 2013. Some more info.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/plan-panel-okays-isro-manned-space-flight/426945/2
http://www.indiaedunews.net/Science/ISRO_gets_green_signal_for_manned_space_mission_7530/

Offline johnxx9

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #26 on: 02/23/2009 03:23 PM »
Some more information.....................Some headlines

London Times

India approves 1.7bn plan to launch astronauts as Asian space race hots up
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5789385.ece

Indian Express

Plan panel okays ISRO manned space flight
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/plan-panel-okays-isro-manned-space-flight/426945/

Domain-b

Planning Commission clears funds for ISRO manned space mission news
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/space/spacemissions/20090223_planning_commission.html

India edunews

ISRO gets green signal for manned space mission
http://www.indiaedunews.net/Science/ISRO_gets_green_signal_for_manned_space_mission_7530/




Offline publiusr

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #27 on: 03/20/2009 05:33 PM »
I wonder if they have any plans for an HLLV coming down the pike.

Offline Jim

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #28 on: 03/20/2009 05:35 PM »
Not needed

Offline HMXHMX

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #29 on: 03/20/2009 05:52 PM »
If India manages to launch a man into space around 2015(7 years), it will be very impressive. China spent 11 years to put a man into space and cost more than 2$ billion from 1992-2003.

Any way, 2 man and 7 days in orbit ? India's first manned spaceship don't have orbit module. So where the toilet be ?

The same place it was on the 14 day long Gemini mission...

Offline johnxx9

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Offline Spacenick

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #31 on: 05/02/2009 12:58 PM »
Does anyone know how much translationcapability the RCS is planned to have? The images aviable at the moment look like it only has forward translation and a bit of attitude control like Mercury. Gemini on the other hand had a RCS sufficient for docking.
I think this will be one of the most important points in the Indian manned space program, if they only have a limited RCS like Mercury the capsule would be quite useless for anything else then free flight. If it had the RCS capabilities of Gemini it could rendezvous with whatever space station might be available even if docking wasn't immediately possible this would open up much hgreater possibilities.
I'd figure they really need a functional RCS to at least partially compete with China, the Shenzhou spacecraft should (as a kind of Soyuz derivate) have a very capable RCS that should easily allow dockingm a manual docking might already be possible now even though they haven't got automated rendezvous equipmen, yet.

Offline johnxx9

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #32 on: 05/02/2009 07:15 PM »
Does anyone know how much translationcapability the RCS is planned to have? The images aviable at the moment look like it only has forward translation and a bit of attitude control like Mercury. Gemini on the other hand had a RCS sufficient for docking.
I think this will be one of the most important points in the Indian manned space program, if they only have a limited RCS like Mercury the capsule would be quite useless for anything else then free flight. If it had the RCS capabilities of Gemini it could rendezvous with whatever space station might be available even if docking wasn't immediately possible this would open up much hgreater possibilities.
I'd figure they really need a functional RCS to at least partially compete with China, the Shenzhou spacecraft should (as a kind of Soyuz derivate) have a very capable RCS that should easily allow dockingm a manual docking might already be possible now even though they haven't got automated rendezvous equipmen, yet.

Actually, this is only half the spacecraft. As the first few flights will take place on GSLV-Mk 2 the RCS is limited. Th first 4 to 5 manned missions will take place in this form with a 2 member crew. After this all future flights will take place aboard Mk 3. This is when an orbital module will be added. At present see it as a Soyuz without Orbital module. Actually when the orbital module will be added it will have more volume than Soyuz-TMA and somewhere close if not better to that of Shenzhou.

Offline Spacenick

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Re: Designs for India's First Manned Spaceship Revealed
« Reply #33 on: 05/02/2009 08:41 PM »
Do you know how the thruster will be positioned? In the case of soyuz the translation thrusters a quite near the junction of the decend module and the service module. It also looks like the service module has some kind of venier engines, any idea how those will be used for precision maneuvers?

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