What's Happening at Bigelow?

[manboy]

http://www.bigelowaerospace.com/

Sundancer is now missing on the Bigelow website, statement released indicates that Sundancer has been cancelled

This was discussed a few pages back.

[Jason1701]

Thanks for that information, Jon. Good to hear.

[marsavian]

Dragon's ECLSS was ground tested before the first F9 ever flew.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11699810/

Musk said he thinks Dragon can be ready to enter service in 2009 — a full year before the shuttle is expected to conduct its last flight.

"I feel very confident about being able to offer NASA an ISS-servicing capability by 2009 and am prepared to back that up with my own funding," Musk said.

[Diagoras]

Dragon's ECLSS was ground tested before the first F9 ever flew.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11699810/

Musk said he thinks Dragon can be ready to enter service in 2009 — a full year before the shuttle is expected to conduct its last flight.

"I feel very confident about being able to offer NASA an ISS-servicing capability by 2009 and am prepared to back that up with my own funding," Musk said.

I assume that would be conditional on COTS-D being funded.

[marsavian]

I think it referred to basic CRS.

Musk indicated that he sees no problems meeting the aggressive timelines NASA has established under the COTS program.

"Development-schedule risk with Dragon is as much a function of NASA as it is SpaceX given all the ISS-visiting vehicle requirements, but I think we can get it done in another three and a half years," he said.

Something to bear in mind when similar 'guarantees' are given about the proposed Falcon XX HLV.

[Chris Bergin]

Need this to be on Bigelow guys.

[ChefPat]

I am still convinced that Bigelow intends to get to EML-1 within his first few deployed station modules. Maybe even one of the first two that will be completed in the 2014/15 time frame.
It would be an outpost unlike any other.

[douglas100]

I think Bigelow will be doing well to get his modules into LEO by this time. It's unlikely there will be means of transporting people to his station before then (except possibly by Soyuz.)

As for sending modules and crew to EML-1, this takes roughly twice the energy to reach LEO. I don't think the CST 100's heatshield could handle entry from EML-1, although Dragon's probably could.

I don't think either the modules or the transport spacecraft could be sent to EML-1 with current launch vehicles. It would require refueling in LEO as you were discussing earlier or the Falcon Heavy.  However I doubt that either capability will be operational by the time you propose.

[mmeijeri]

I don't think either the modules or the transport spacecraft could be sent to EML-1 with current launch vehicles. It would require refueling in LEO as you were discussing earlier or the Falcon Heavy.

Or EOR which doesn't require new technology.

However I doubt that either capability will be operational by the time you propose.

Storable propellant transfer has existed for decades and Bigelow has said he will use it. There has even been speculation he would use hydrazine monopropellant for the TLI, but that would be very expensive. Then again, the cost of the launch can potentially be amortised over many years and many clients - if he can find any clients.

[ChefPat]

I think Bigelow will be doing well to get his modules into LEO by this time. It's unlikely there will be means of transporting people to his station before then (except possibly by Soyuz.)

As for sending modules and crew to EML-1, this takes roughly twice the energy to reach LEO. I don't think the CST 100's heatshield could handle entry from EML-1, although Dragon's probably could.

I don't think either the modules or the transport spacecraft could be sent to EML-1 with current launch vehicles. It would require refueling in LEO as you were discussing earlier or the Falcon Heavy.  However I doubt that either capability will be operational by the time you propose.

Bigelow's intention is to make LEO, the Lunar Surface & Mars accessible. In order to do the he's going to push everybody else's capabilities right to the edge of what is possible.
With that in mind, the pix we've seen show BA-330's with propulsion capabilites that can get them from LEO to EML-1 on their own. If they can do that, what prevents them from getting back?

[mmeijeri]

If they can do that, what prevents them from getting back?

Why would you want to bring the BA-330 itself back? Only a capsule has to come back.

[ChefPat]

An LEO - EML-1 Cycler that only has to be refueled would be a much better way to go than a capsule that has to have it's heatsheild replaced after every flight.

[mmeijeri]

Not necessarily, because it also requires much more propellant, even if the capsule's heat shield had to be replaced everytime, which is not a given. It would be more comfortable and safer to travel back and forth in a BA-330, but not more cost efficient I think.

[Danderman]

I am still convinced that Bigelow intends to get to EML-1 within his first few deployed station modules. Maybe even one of the first two that will be completed in the 2014/15 time frame.
It would be an outpost unlike any other.

We are going to have ponies at EML-1, too!  Seriously, if Bigelow won't build a LEO platform because he doesn't have a customer, why would he build an EML-1 platform?

My hypothesis is remains that, without a customer contract, Bigelow will simply make buildings, make subscale models, and full-scale mockups. BTW, a "customer contract" could mean a NASA contract.

And I do not include MOUs as customer contracts.

[douglas100]

Yes, everything we've discussed is technically possible. (I take Martijn's point about refueling with storable propellant. But currently the only operational system is currently on the Russian side of the ISS. Bigelow's would have to be developed.) But what is realistically possible by 2015 is my point.

It's all down to market. I think Danderman's point is valid.

[mmeijeri]

Yes, everything we've discussed is technically possible. (I take Martijn's point about refueling with storable propellant. But currently the only operational system is currently on the Russian side of the ISS. Bigelow's would have to be developed.) But what is realistically possible by 2015 is my point.

Bigelow has already said that the hydrazine propulsion system will be reusable, it's on the BA web site. And EOR with a Centaur should be possible soon - if funded.

It's all down to market. I think Danderman's point is valid.

Agreed, funding is the main issue.

[Danderman]

The Bigelow funding/customer critical issue is so important that speculation about what color or what size his platform will be is pretty much irrelevant. I would focus on actual customer signings, rather than speculation about which launch vehicle he will use. Its pretty clear that actual launch vehicle selection would be a function of which customer will be paying for the launch.

No, MOUs don't count.

Don't worry about transportation of crew to the station, if money is available, Soyuz is available.

[paycom]

BTW, a "customer contract" could mean a NASA contract.

One can imagine other potential (LEO) customers, too. E.g. there is a nice little russian company with great visions (Orbitaltechnologies).
If they really  want to do space tourism and science, a single small module won't be enough.
If they manage to get the money...

[A_M_Swallow]

Have any European Governments received requests for funding of a space station from their science organisations?  These things tend to be planned years in advance.

Scientists, civil servants and politicians should be talking about possible missions.

[docmordrid]

Right now the EU is trying to keep itself from disintegrating, much less plan ahead more than a few years.