What's Happening at Bigelow?

[Rocket Science]

Has anyone ever considered spinning up the module to create artificial gravity for long term missions? Just a thought...

Even the largest module he has talked about would spin you brain. Now you might be able to use a BA-330 to test gravity effects on mice though.

Hmmm... spin my brain... I like that!

[Rocket Science]

Has anyone ever considered spinning up the module to create artificial gravity for long term missions? Just a thought...

Even the largest module he has talked about would spin you brain. Now you might be able to use a BA-330 to test gravity effects on mice though.

In the correct configuration, spinning 2 of them on either end of a long tether would work just fine.

I was thinking of spinning along the axis...

[ChefPat]

Has anyone ever considered spinning up the module to create artificial gravity for long term missions? Just a thought...

Even the largest module he has talked about would spin you brain. Now you might be able to use a BA-330 to test gravity effects on mice though.

In the correct configuration, spinning 2 of them on either end of a long tether would work just fine.

I was thinking of spinning along the axis...

In order to have that, you have to have this;

[Rocket Science]

Has anyone ever considered spinning up the module to create artificial gravity for long term missions? Just a thought...

Even the largest module he has talked about would spin you brain. Now you might be able to use a BA-330 to test gravity effects on mice though.

In the correct configuration, spinning 2 of them on either end of a long tether would work just fine.

I was thinking of spinning along the axis...

In order to have that, you have to have this;

Thanks for the video. Just think of that as a cross-sectional slice of the module and you have my idea. You will create centripetal acceleration which is just a function velocity and radius.
Regards
Robert

[Blackjax]

Here is the first draft. I will have more later.

FYI - for those of you who want to play with a 3D version, you can download Sketchup free:
http://sketchup.google.com/intl/en/download/index.html

...and use this model

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=90c396d37d75639cb4ac0fba0941b330

Great for playing with your own station/ship designs or comparing to a payload fairing...

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=a6b4562b567f33e215a2293956fb0e09&prevstart=0

[Danderman]

Has anyone ever considered spinning up the module to create artificial gravity for long term missions? Just a thought...

Even the largest module he has talked about would spin you brain. Now you might be able to use a BA-330 to test gravity effects on mice though.

In the correct configuration, spinning 2 of them on either end of a long tether would work just fine.

I hope you understand that the acceleration imparted via a tether break is just about the same as for retrofire. In other words, there is a non-zero chance that if the tether should break that at least one module might de-orbit.

The dangers of utilizing tethers in LEO is a prime reason why CSI was advocating tether experiments in cislunar space, using the Lunar Express architecture to make them affordable. If a tether breaks halfway out to the Moon, the spacecraft can easily recover its trajectory; if the same happens in LEO, it could be a very bad day.

[e of pi]

In order to have that, you have to have this;

Thanks for the video. Just think of that as a cross-sectional slice of the module and you have my idea. You will create centripetal acceleration which is just a function velocity and radius.
Regards
Robert

As the creator of that video and one Robert to another, that model is based on the size of the Nautilus-X ring, approximately 60 feet in diameter, and it's still a bit small for spin-grav. To make 1/3 gravity, it has to spin at around 6 RPM--close to the best guess at human maximums. Bigelow has nothing on their manifest or even planned that would have that kind of diameter, which means even higher spin rates to get any decent gravity. Even BA-2100 is only 40 feet, and that's basically maxing a SDHLV fairing. To go much bigger with Transhab tech, you need new launchers--not for mass, but for fairing. However, with a torus design like Nautilus, you aren't as limited by your fairing diameter, which is I believe what Pat was suggesting. It'd be a major break with how Bigelow's been working so far (incremental improvements on the Transhab work).

Here is the first draft. I will have more later.

Chris, I've been working on revising my Transhab Module calculator, and this stuff is highly of interest for me to compare with my own models. Would it be all right if I roll some of this into the groundwork for an upcoming revision?

[clongton]

Thank you Chris. Keep going!

[go4mars]

As the creator of that video and one Robert to another, that model is based on the size of the Nautilus-X ring, approximately 60 feet in diameter, and it's still a bit small for spin-grav. To make 1/3 gravity, it has to spin at around 6 RPM--close to the best guess at human maximums. Bigelow has nothing on their manifest or even planned that would have that kind of diameter, which means even higher spin rates to get any decent gravity. Even BA-2100 is only 40 feet, and that's basically maxing a SDHLV fairing. To go much bigger with Transhab tech, you need new launchers--not for mass, but for fairing.

Not that I'm against bigger launchers, but couldn't a bunch of BA-2100's be attached end to end, forming a big doughnut made of BA-2100 chunks?  They are each 60 feet long.  A dozen of those would give you a doughnut with a circumference of about 700 feet.  Spin that up.  I wonder how that would look from Earth.

[Chris-A]

I looked over the presentation with the CGI images and figured enough is present to make a decent crack at it. I’m confident the dimensions are well within a yard or better. I used Blender to create a rough outline close enough using the drawing. Close, but the camera perspective doesn’t match too well with the PR imagery.

My first impression is the small size of the module itself. Not much headroom from the trust to the inflatable wall!

[Chris-A]

Here is a draft of the BA-2100. Easy from the pdf image.
Edit: Added metric dimensions.

[Lampyridae]

Errr... is there any way you could whip one up in metric? Us southern hemisphere types don't really grok imperial units that well and doing all the math for the measurements hurts my head!

[ChefPat]

Not that I'm against bigger launchers, but couldn't a bunch of BA-2100's be attached end to end, forming a big doughnut made of BA-2100 chunks?  They are each 60 feet long.  A dozen of those would give you a doughnut with a circumference of about 700 feet.  Spin that up.  I wonder how that would look from Earth.

If the interior Water Blankets are used all the water will migrate to the "floor." I strongly suspect there would be other problems too.
Even if two modules are attached to each end of a mile long tether there would be problems using a module that was designed to operate in Zero-G as a gravity platform.
If Bigelow makes a station capable of Artificial Gravity it'll be designed with that in mind right from the start.

[Rocket Science]

Spin up the module just like a “pizza rolling pin” at a faster RPM. Using the inside outer wall as the floor. What do you think?
Regards
Robert

[e of pi]

Spin up the module just like a “pizza rolling pin” at a faster RPM. Using the inside outer wall as the floor. What do you think?
Regards
Robert

It's possible, but impractical with a Transhab style module. The required RPM to generate any useful gravity is too high, even with a BA-2100. At the human maximum of around 6 RPM found in ground studies, you'd only generate about 1/4 G in a BA-2100's 40 ft diameter. To get a larger diameter, and thus be able to generate more gravity with the same rotation rate, you need to get much bigger. A 52 ft diameter is needed for 1/3 G at 6 RPM, 80 ft for 1/2 G at 6 RPM, and both of those are far larger than a Transhab-style inflatable could get on current launchers.

[Garrett]

Spin up the module just like a “pizza rolling pin” at a faster RPM. Using the inside outer wall as the floor. What do you think?

Remember, only the floor of the module will be at the desired level of g-force, i.e. your feet will feel that force, your head, which is closer to the center, will not. It literally messes with your head, and is what e of pi is talking about when he refers to the "human maximum".

A rolling pin situation might have some uses. Science experiments for example. Another one might be as a sleeping module, since in that case if your entire body is against the "floor" then the gravity gradient effects are reduced, but still probably not by enough for a Bigelow style module

[go4mars]

If the interior Water Blankets are used all the water will migrate to the "floor."

Would probably be a system of rib-like bladders along the inside of the wall.  Could be drained and re-filled one at a time as needed. 

[Rocket Science]

The reason I'm on this track is for a mission to Mars.  Even 1/4-1/3g should offset long duration flight and to be in shape for a landing.
Regards
Robert
http://atomicrockets.posterous.com/bimodal-ntr-mars-mission-2001

[e of pi]

Robert,

That mission called for a Transhab module essentially equivalent to the BA-330. At the maximum of 6 RPM, the module's diameter of 6.7 m would allow just 1/8 G at floor level, and at the level of the head 1.85 m or so above that, the gravity would be just 6% Earth gravity. Not really worth bothering.

Now that sort of lo0gic is what ispried the toroidal ring design of the Nautilus-X centrifuge module, which also provides a couple hundred cubic meters but by creating a ring out of a mix of rigid and inflatable/deployable structures, gets a diameter of 60 feet: enough to generate some reasonable G without spinning beyond the rates humans can handle.

[Jason1701]

The reason I'm on this track is for a mission to Mars.  Even 1/4-1/3g should offset long duration flight and to be in shape for a landing.
Regards
Robert
http://atomicrockets.posterous.com/bimodal-ntr-mars-mission-2001

Your attachment shows what I believe we should be developing now, not just the tiny capsule on the end of it.