Author Topic: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread  (Read 854671 times)

Offline zaitcev

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1960 on: 06/25/2013 09:46 PM »
The RD-120 is an excellent engine; but Ukraine and Russia both make claims on it. Production is in the Ukraine as I understand it.

There's that, I agree, but this should be easier to resolve than getting export licenses for RD-181, or at least I'm betting. Not many Ukrainians are as paranoid and obsessed about the imperial struggle with The Great Satan as old Russians (who, coincidentially, clog the government apparatus). BTW, there are proposals on the table right now in Russia to freeze the RD-180 contract. Energomash people are already peeing their pants.

Offline Lars_J

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1961 on: 06/25/2013 10:26 PM »
The RD-120 is an excellent engine; but Ukraine and Russia both make claims on it. Production is in the Ukraine as I understand it.

There's that, I agree, but this should be easier to resolve than getting export licenses for RD-181, or at least I'm betting. Not many Ukrainians are as paranoid and obsessed about the imperial struggle with The Great Satan as old Russians (who, coincidentially, clog the government apparatus). BTW, there are proposals on the table right now in Russia to freeze the RD-180 contract. Energomash people are already peeing their pants.

Proposals to freeze *what* RD-180 contract? There is no current or near term Russian launch vehicle using the RD-180.

Offline zaitcev

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1962 on: 06/25/2013 10:37 PM »
Proposals to freeze *what* RD-180 contract? There is no current or near term Russian launch vehicle using the RD-180.

I'm talking about this:
 http://www.aex.ru/news/2013/6/25/107293/

All of the tug-o-war is happening "under carpet", so we do not know even the principal instigators of the motion. I specified this information as "rumour".

P.S. AEX refers to VPK Courier, but VPK-C site does not have this info in the ticker (yet?).
« Last Edit: 06/25/2013 10:39 PM by zaitcev »

Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1963 on: 06/25/2013 10:55 PM »

CRS v2 is not a rocket development contract but a cargo delivery contract.  Orbital's price was already above SpaceX using cheap engines, how are they going to compete while trying to absorb all these other costs?  And why shouldn't NASA throw CRS v2 open to ULA, since they have paid for SpaceX and Orbital to get up to speed already?  It should be a level playing field by 2016, when the current CRS ends and this next CRS v2 would start.


Well, if it's only about CRS-2, I think Orbital needs to find an engine that's not a RD-180. Really, want does the Antares with a RD-180 prove, that they can built a slightly cheaper Atlas V clone ? Except that Antares will still have that solid upper stage, so performance is still less.

If the choice is RD-180 or nothing, I say launch Cygnus on Pegasus-2 or get a bulk purchase agreement from LM / ULA for flying Cygnus on Atlas. Maybe they can stretch Cygnus 1 more time for a Cygnus XXL, to increase the volume of upmass each flight.


Offline Prober

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1964 on: 06/26/2013 08:53 PM »
The RD-120 is an excellent engine; but Ukraine and Russia both make claims on it. Production is in the Ukraine as I understand it.

There's that, I agree, but this should be easier to resolve than getting export licenses for RD-181, or at least I'm betting. Not many Ukrainians are as paranoid and obsessed about the imperial struggle with The Great Satan as old Russians (who, coincidentially, clog the government apparatus). BTW, there are proposals on the table right now in Russia to freeze the RD-180 contract. Energomash people are already peeing their pants.

a freeze of that contract would be very, very bad.  Russia should not bite the hand of one feeding him !
 
We take contracts very seriously in the USA. The contract was for 101 RD-180's and partners should finish what they started.
 
 
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Offline Patchouli

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1965 on: 06/26/2013 10:09 PM »
No European, US, Chinese nor Japanese rocket fits the requirements.

What about RD-120K? The Isp is as good as NK-33's, claimed at least. It's about half of NK-33 thrust, so 4 of those should be just right. Yes, it's a redesign, but not much worse than a switch to RD-180. The t/w is about the same, noticeably worse than NK-33 of course, but Orbital seems not to mind.

If OF ratio is different 2.6 vs 2.8 for the NK-33 and it lacks gimbal capability though it probably can be added.


« Last Edit: 06/26/2013 10:13 PM by Patchouli »

Offline nlec

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1966 on: 06/27/2013 01:49 PM »
Maybe Orbital should look to leverage their existing relationship with ATK and go with solid first stage.

Offline Dmitry_V_home

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1967 on: 06/27/2013 03:10 PM »

There's that, I agree, but this should be easier to resolve than getting export licenses for RD-181, or at least I'm betting. Not many Ukrainians are as paranoid and obsessed about the imperial struggle with The Great Satan as old Russians (who, coincidentially, clog the government apparatus). BTW, there are proposals on the table right now in Russia to freeze the RD-180 contract. Energomash people are already peeing their pants.

I hope that it won't occur. Otherwise there will be that in Russian is called "to step to itself on balls"

Offline Prober

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1968 on: 06/29/2013 11:40 AM »

There's that, I agree, but this should be easier to resolve than getting export licenses for RD-181, or at least I'm betting. Not many Ukrainians are as paranoid and obsessed about the imperial struggle with The Great Satan as old Russians (who, coincidentially, clog the government apparatus). BTW, there are proposals on the table right now in Russia to freeze the RD-180 contract. Energomash people are already peeing their pants.

I hope that it won't occur. Otherwise there will be that in Russian is called "to step to itself on balls"

Dmitry any "real" signs that NK-33 production will start again?
 
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Online Salo

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1969 on: 06/29/2013 03:40 PM »
If OF ratio is different 2.6 vs 2.8 for the NK-33 and it lacks gimbal capability though it probably can be added.
OF ratio is 2.62 for the NK-33.

Offline owais.usmani

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1970 on: 06/29/2013 10:29 PM »

There's that, I agree, but this should be easier to resolve than getting export licenses for RD-181, or at least I'm betting. Not many Ukrainians are as paranoid and obsessed about the imperial struggle with The Great Satan as old Russians (who, coincidentially, clog the government apparatus). BTW, there are proposals on the table right now in Russia to freeze the RD-180 contract. Energomash people are already peeing their pants.

I hope that it won't occur. Otherwise there will be that in Russian is called "to step to itself on balls"

Dmitry any "real" signs that NK-33 production will start again?
 

Well there are some signs, don't know how much "real" they are  ::)

http://www.vninform.ru/article/261232.html

http://www.vkonline.ru/article/259355.html

Offline Prober

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1971 on: 06/29/2013 10:39 PM »

There's that, I agree, but this should be easier to resolve than getting export licenses for RD-181, or at least I'm betting. Not many Ukrainians are as paranoid and obsessed about the imperial struggle with The Great Satan as old Russians (who, coincidentially, clog the government apparatus). BTW, there are proposals on the table right now in Russia to freeze the RD-180 contract. Energomash people are already peeing their pants.

I hope that it won't occur. Otherwise there will be that in Russian is called "to step to itself on balls"

Dmitry any "real" signs that NK-33 production will start again?
 

Well there are some signs, don't know how much "real" they are  ::)

http://www.vninform.ru/article/261232.html

http://www.vkonline.ru/article/259355.html

oh very good I think  :-X
 
« Last Edit: 06/29/2013 10:41 PM by Prober »
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Offline zaitcev

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1972 on: 06/30/2013 12:23 AM »
oh very good I think  :-X
 

Nothing of this goes ahead unless and until Orbital signs it off and promises to bankroll. And that's not happening. Otherwise they would not try to get their hands on RD-180. I entertained hopes about it before the whitepaper and the lawsuit, but the train has left the station.

Offline Dmitry_V_home

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1973 on: 06/30/2013 10:39 AM »

Dmitry any "real" signs that NK-33 production will start again?
 

Real signs of restoration of production NK-33, in my opinion, have to will appear next year.

Offline Prober

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1974 on: 06/30/2013 11:49 PM »
oh very good I think  :-X
 

Nothing of this goes ahead unless and until Orbital signs it off and promises to bankroll. And that's not happening. Otherwise they would not try to get their hands on RD-180. I entertained hopes about it before the whitepaper and the lawsuit, but the train has left the station.

Will look more into what Orbital is doing.   However believe that first Orbital must get Antares to ISS.
 
Orbital would not spend more on engines unless they can use them.
 
Looks like Sept 2013 is the key date with Aerojet.
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Online Salo

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1975 on: 07/17/2013 04:57 PM »
The management of the Orbital Sciences Corporation and Aerojet visited JSC "Kuznetsov":
http://www.kuznetsov-motors.ru/press-center/news/predstaviteli-korporatsii-%C2%ABorbital-sciences-corporation%C2%BB-i-%C2%ABaerojet%C2%BB-posetili-oao-

The management of the United Engine Corporation and U.S. space-rocket company met with the Governor Nikolay Merkushin:
http://www.kuznetsov-motors.ru/press-center/news/rukovodstvo-%C2%ABodk%C2%BB-i-amerikanskie-raketno-kosmicheskie-kompanii-vstretilis-s-gubern

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1976 on: 07/17/2013 06:09 PM »
oh very good I think  :-X
 

Nothing of this goes ahead unless and until Orbital signs it off and promises to bankroll. And that's not happening. Otherwise they would not try to get their hands on RD-180. I entertained hopes about it before the whitepaper and the lawsuit, but the train has left the station.

Will look more into what Orbital is doing.   However believe that first Orbital must get Antares to ISS.
 
Orbital would not spend more on engines unless they can use them.
 
Looks like Sept 2013 is the key date with Aerojet.
On a somewhat related note:
Aerojet, which is now officially named Aerojet Rocketdyne, NPO Energomash, and delegations from USA and Russian governments are scheduled for a first meeting in early August 2013 to discuss and gain regulatory approval to allow the transfer of the former Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne's stake hold in RD AMROSS to the new Aerojet Rocketdyne. At the moment RD AMROSS is operating as a standalone company with U.S. orders still being placed through Pratt & Whitney. The Russian Government is the only side that has yet to formally sign off on the transfer.

In a similar meeting that is hinted to be sometime in either October or November 2013, there is planned discussion about creating another joint company under the potential names NK AMROSS or JSC AMROSS. There is alternate plan that would create a Joint company by name of AMROSS with subsidiaries RD AMROSS and NK AMROSS created, one for each manufacturer's engines. This plan was last discussed when UTC accepted GenCorps offer for the Rocketdyne portion of Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne.

Online Salo

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1977 on: 08/10/2013 09:30 AM »
http://www.orbital.com/Antares-Cygnus/

AJ26 Engine Acceptance Test Successfully Conducted

August 2013

On August 8, 2013 Orbital and its Aerojet Rocketdyne and NASA teammates successfully conducted a 54 second hot fire acceptance test of an AJ26 engine. The AJ26 used in this test will be one of two engines that will power the first stage of Orbital's Antares rocket in its second mission to deliver cargo to the International Space Station under the Commercial Resupply Services (CRS) agreement with NASA. The mission, dubbed Orb-2, is scheduled to occur in 2014. The test was conducted at NASA Stennis Space Center in Mississippi. (NASA photo)


Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1978 on: 08/11/2013 03:32 PM »
Orbital finally got an updated User's Guide for Antares out into the open!  ;D http://www.orbital.com/NewsInfo/Publications/Antares%20UG.pdf
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Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Orbital's Antares Development Update Thread
« Reply #1979 on: 08/11/2013 08:02 PM »
Quite a performance penalty for SSO missions from WFF. Must be the dogleg. Interesting they did not list the WFF Antares 130 SSO performance. Is that because it is to heavy to perform the dog leg?
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