Author Topic: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia  (Read 29062 times)

Offline rdale

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #20 on: 12/30/2008 08:24 PM »
Noticed a lot of redactions from section 3 - why?

Pam: This is an engineering document, so included full description of analysis and basis, but surviving family members have a right to privacy.

Offline rdale

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #21 on: 12/30/2008 08:26 PM »
Keith Cowing: Billions of people watched these happen live, how can we utilize this new method of recording everything?

Wayne: Videos of Columbia from personal cameras provided a huge input, especially early on when we didn't understand. In the future, we know that there is a network of amateur astronomers who use video devices to track, so should we have to call on them in the future it will go much faster and smoother.

Nigel: Video analysis was vitally important especially after we lost telemetry.

Offline CessnaDriver

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #22 on: 12/30/2008 08:28 PM »
Painful read. Husband and McCool started to fight back, Columbia herself fought it too.


Suvivable crew cabins from castastrophic failures possible someday from all this perhaps in future vehicles?









Offline rdale

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #23 on: 12/30/2008 08:30 PM »
Sandra from Daytona TImes: What was learned about objects that pulled away and exposed the crew module to depress?

Pam: Referring to 4-body breakup and video / analysis of debris field, two objects separated believed to be surrounding parts of forward fuselage around crew module. Determined through ballistics and video and debris field. Purpose of this report was to understand occupant protection and crew survival, so we had to approach what happened to structure.


Offline rdale

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #24 on: 12/30/2008 08:33 PM »
Irene: Why pick the time between holidays?

Pam: Just completed this month, but out of respect to crew and families, we waited until after Christmas but while children were still out of school and home with family members so they could discuss findings and elements of report with some privacy.

Offline rdale

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #25 on: 12/30/2008 08:36 PM »
Seth: Would it be unfair to say that they weren't ready to do this since they weren't folly donned in their suits?

Pam: On the contrary, they were following procedures. Emphasis on deorbit has always been on prepping vehicle.

Offline rdale

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #26 on: 12/30/2008 08:38 PM »
John from Orlando Sentinel: I've heard that there was resistance within NASA to make this report public?

Wayne: Not that way at all.

Offline rdale

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #27 on: 12/30/2008 08:38 PM »
Tracy: Was this a relief finally knowing the crew didn't suffer?

Pam: Of course.


Offline rdale

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #28 on: 12/30/2008 08:39 PM »
Todd: John Clark had a family member onboard, did that color the investigation?

Pam: No.

Offline rdale

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #29 on: 12/30/2008 08:42 PM »
Tarik: Did this give a sense of closure?

Pam: It is a special day to give this report to the spaceflight world so they can use it to protect others.

Wayne: Closure is not the operative word. There isn't a day that I go through that I don't think about the Columbia crew, or even the Challenger crew. I knew all these people, some better than others. But if you want to talk about regrets, that's another discussion. But our goal is to prevent accidents in the future.

Offline rdale

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #30 on: 12/30/2008 08:44 PM »
Mark Mathews from Orlando: Were the spacesuit changes after Challenger?

Wayne: After CHallenger and Soyuz accident we realized we need to wear suits during launch / landing. Our concern was bailout in cold water, advanced suit developed by military but ACES suit is not as good of a pressure suit. So there's a tradeoff made to increase potential to survive bailout in Atlantic which is not useful in this accident. But Columbia wasn't survivable regardless of what suit they wore.

Offline rdale

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #31 on: 12/30/2008 08:45 PM »
Is there concern that kids of today will forget Columbia?

Wayne: What we are doing today makes sure kids of today will study this when they design spacecraft. When I was in school, we analyzed big problems from the 19th and 20th centuries, early aircraft accidents etc.

Offline rdale

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #32 on: 12/30/2008 08:48 PM »
Keith Cowing: We're going to a capsule, but if you look at private spacecraft they have wings. What from this will guide future designers between tried-and-true vs pushing the envelope?

Wayne: We are still in infancy of spacecraft. Each has pro's/con's.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #33 on: 12/30/2008 08:51 PM »
First question from Gina - "why the delay?" Wayne said it took longer than he expected, but this involved a lot of people doing a lot of investigating. Pam said that as things popped up that could be transferred to shuttle or Constellation, they were immediately sent along.

The answer seems to make a fair amount of sense.  Consider after all that they did not have to do this study.  NASA chose to do it.  Once they did that, you can ask why it was not a higher priority, but if you look at the wealth of information it contains, they were clearly trying to be comprehensive and not to hide anything.

In response to a later question they replied that the study was not finished until this month and that at the request of the families they held the release until after Christmas but before the children of the astronauts returned to school.

Offline eeergo

Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #34 on: 12/30/2008 08:55 PM »
Impressive report, lots of reading there. For armchair enthusiasts like me it also provides interesting insight into the orbiter's structure. The attitude changes with loss of control, breakup events... everything is described with forensic detail. From my point of view, thourough investigation of rare events like this one is an invaluable source of knowledge that couldn't be acquired in any other way. Crew families intimacy is important, but in-depth investigations should always be performed.

I always found the "burial" of the Challenger as a disgraceful event. In this respect, at the end of the report, one of the recommendations calls for a more detailed investigation of the Challenger remains... it'd be interesting to know how they would perform that?

-DaviD-

Offline marsavian

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #35 on: 12/30/2008 09:05 PM »
Kudos to Wayne Hale for handling this difficult painful subject with his natural class and sensitivity.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #36 on: 12/30/2008 09:17 PM »
Todd: John Clark had a family member onboard, did that color the investigation?

Pam: No.

Just to add to this: Jon Clark was deliberately involved in the accident investigation from the start (i.e. the CAIB).  He was certainly qualified, and he wanted to be involved, and by including him it gave the investigation credibility with the crew families.

Offline cape51

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #37 on: 12/30/2008 09:20 PM »
Only a few pages into and...geez. Not even enough time to get the visors down and locked? This sounds like as much a blessing as a curse.

The seat restraint issue sounds like a really big deal, even in a situation that is survivable.
Would suggest reading the whole thing (which I'm still doing, too)...not sure that's the whole story...remember that vehicle breakup didn't occur simultaneously with loss of control.


Just got finished skimming this report...can I just say that I love the detail of this report.  The report pointed to issues with the timeline as well as suit issues and astronaut issues as well.  I have to give NASA credit for distributing this because this coupled with the CAIB report adds to the information to as the multiple cultural and systemic issues with the shuttle progream.  The chilling echoes ofthe challenger that I recieved from this report stating that the astroauts were alive for up to 41 seconds prior to loss of consciousness trying to respond to the conditionsthat were out of their control.  Ill read the whole thing in the weeks and months to come.
CAPE51
"SEE YOU ON THE FLIP SIDE."

Offline Shadow Spork

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #38 on: 12/31/2008 12:01 AM »
The details in this report were very clear and concise. A lot of time was put into this, and it clearly shows in this report.

Offline gospacex

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Re: New NASA Report on Loss of Columbia
« Reply #39 on: 12/31/2008 01:26 AM »
Read the report. Now we know why that particular bolt melted so much, and that one didn't. What we do not know, why Linda Ham turned down multiple requests to look at the damn wing...

The rescue of stranded Columbia would have been so much better story to remember and tell to my children than the story about streaks of metal vapor.

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