Author Topic: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive  (Read 27417 times)


Offline Sith

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #1 on: 09/25/2008 07:45 am »
Once people didn't believe that there will be machines that can fly or be faster than a horse. Every new innovation was confronted with great scepticism. Even in the 20s and 30s of 20th century nobody believed that nuclear power can be used. Several years later it was fact.

Offline khallow

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #2 on: 09/25/2008 03:06 pm »
And people laughed at Bozo the Clown. We'll see where there's anything to these scientific claims or not. My take is that there isn't. The model doesn't provide justification for the claim that propulsion exists.
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Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #3 on: 09/25/2008 04:02 pm »
Cube sat anyone with money? My take, chinese say looks interesting, doesn't cost much to build one, try it, if it works we have something awesome, if not, well we terminate the project.

The biggest crime is not duplicating an existing project, it is missing something important because you where to cautious to try.

Hopefully the chinese share the results (positive or negative).
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Offline Sith

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #4 on: 09/25/2008 05:38 pm »
Cube sat anyone with money? My take, chinese say looks interesting, doesn't cost much to build one, try it, if it works we have something awesome, if not, well we terminate the project.

The biggest crime is not duplicating an existing project, it is missing something important because you where to cautious to try.

Hopefully the chinese share the results (positive or negative).
It's certain that a success of the Chinese Space Drive program will somehow reflect on the other space agencies. But how is unknown to me. Obviously rockets won't be a priority any more. Other stuff matters then.

Offline khallow

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #5 on: 09/25/2008 06:10 pm »
Cube sat anyone with money? My take, chinese say looks interesting, doesn't cost much to build one, try it, if it works we have something awesome, if not, well we terminate the project.

The biggest crime is not duplicating an existing project, it is missing something important because you where to cautious to try.

Hopefully the chinese share the results (positive or negative).
It's certain that a success of the Chinese Space Drive program will somehow reflect on the other space agencies. But how is unknown to me. Obviously rockets won't be a priority any more. Other stuff matters then.

No that is not obvious. Even if there is an effect, it may not be strong enough to be useful.
Karl Hallowell

Offline nacnud

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #6 on: 09/25/2008 06:22 pm »
The trick is to get a high q factor, or how many times a microwave will refelct before it is absorbed.

I still don't believe it can work but it's worth a test. You can test on an air table, it doesn't have to be in space.

Offline Sith

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #7 on: 09/25/2008 06:36 pm »
Quote from: khallow link=topic=14423.msg318150#msg318150

No that is not obvious. Even if there is an effect, it may not be strong enough to be useful.
Since when can you predict test results





It flies :)
« Last Edit: 09/25/2008 07:21 pm by Sith »

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #8 on: 09/25/2008 06:36 pm »
The trick is to get a high q factor, or how many times a microwave will refelct before it is absorbed.

I still don't believe it can work but it's worth a test. You can test on an air table, it doesn't have to be in space.

Yes it does, you need to prove it is not some weird effect/interaction between the microwaves and any residual gasses that may be in it. It needs to be in the hard vacuum of space. It might be doing something fishy like heating the gasses (even an ultra low pressure vac chamber has "air" in it). You need to rule out that potential effect. A dead giveaway would be if different vac pressures produce different results.
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Offline Maxwell

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #9 on: 09/25/2008 07:30 pm »
It needs to work in space if you want to go on interplanetary joyrides, but if it could hover inside the atmosphere we would still have many uses for the technology.

Call me skeptical tho.
It sounds too good to be true and I can only wonder why a simple demonstration wouldn't have torn open wallets  and had checks writing themselves from a thousand miles around the epicenter.


Offline Keermalec

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #10 on: 09/27/2008 08:45 pm »

No that is not obvious. Even if there is an effect, it may not be strong enough to be useful.


I disagree, Khallow. Any effect, no matter how small, will be useful. We are talking about propellantless propulsion here, even 1/1000th of a Newton would be an absolute revolution because you could keep it up for ever (as long as there is sunlight at least).

Offline KelvinZero

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #11 on: 09/28/2008 12:14 am »

No that is not obvious. Even if there is an effect, it may not be strong enough to be useful.


I disagree, Khallow. Any effect, no matter how small, will be useful. We are talking about propellantless propulsion here, even 1/1000th of a Newton would be an absolute revolution because you could keep it up for ever (as long as there is sunlight at least).

It would be of huge interest even if it were a thousand times to small to be of practical use to spaceflight.

Although it is true that several useful discoveries were initially ridiculed by at least some individuals I think this fact is overstated by companies seeking to create money purely from internet hype. Quantum mechanics and Relativity were accepted despite their strangeness and without immediately delivering nuclear power or microchips.

It is ok to use interesting claims like this to motivate you into science to understand these things for yourself but if you dont understand it, dont invest in it. It just encourages them :)

Offline colbourne

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #12 on: 09/29/2008 04:24 am »
If the Chinese announce that it does not work we will not really know anything.

If it had worked , its importance would be so great to their miltary projects that they would not reveal their results.

Offline Sith

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #13 on: 09/29/2008 05:22 pm »
If the Chinese announce that it does not work we will not really know anything.

If it had worked , its importance would be so great to their miltary projects that they would not reveal their results.
It means that if it works, NASA should take steps to change it's policy = to begin to develope similar projects, and, eventually, leave behind this dead chemical rocketry.

Offline Giovanni DS

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #14 on: 09/29/2008 06:20 pm »
... leave behind this dead chemical rocketry.

Do you have a better, proven, method to put mass into orbit ?

If not, it is not dead.

Offline Sith

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #15 on: 09/29/2008 06:25 pm »
... leave behind this dead chemical rocketry.

Do you have a better, proven, method to put mass into orbit ?

If not, it is not dead.
The question is - how many better ways of space access do exist, and how serious are they taken from NASA
« Last Edit: 09/29/2008 06:25 pm by Sith »

Offline khallow

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #16 on: 09/29/2008 11:12 pm »
... leave behind this dead chemical rocketry.

Do you have a better, proven, method to put mass into orbit ?

If not, it is not dead.
The question is - how many better ways of space access do exist, and how serious are they taken from NASA

Currently no better way exists. We don't even have proof that engines based on these ideas would produce thrust much less enough thrust to be relevant in a launch vehicle.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2008 11:13 pm by khallow »
Karl Hallowell

Offline colbourne

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #17 on: 09/30/2008 04:05 am »
Other than chemical rockets we could put objects into orbit

1) with a gun, or electrical accelerator

2) Space elevator

3) My favorite is the rotating bolo tether.

None of these are proven although their are rumours of objects being launched by nuclear bomb testing, which would effectively be a gun.


« Last Edit: 09/30/2008 04:11 am by colbourne »

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #18 on: 09/30/2008 04:40 am »
Quote from: khallow link=topic=14423.msg318150#msg318150

No that is not obvious. Even if there is an effect, it may not be strong enough to be useful.
Since when can you predict test results





It flies :)

You know they could have accidentally made a really big compass the earth's magnetic field can exert a torque on anything with a magnetic field so this has to be taken into account.

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Chinese to Build 'Impossible' Space Drive
« Reply #19 on: 09/30/2008 04:45 am »
Cube sat anyone with money? My take, chinese say looks interesting, doesn't cost much to build one, try it, if it works we have something awesome, if not, well we terminate the project.

The biggest crime is not duplicating an existing project, it is missing something important because you where to cautious to try.

Hopefully the chinese share the results (positive or negative).
It's certain that a success of the Chinese Space Drive program will somehow reflect on the other space agencies. But how is unknown to me. Obviously rockets won't be a priority any more. Other stuff matters then.

No that is not obvious. Even if there is an effect, it may not be strong enough to be useful.


The claimed numbers from the company who invented drive put it's performance around that of ion drives.

Also the drive is not Chinese it's British in origin.

http://emdrive.com/firstgenapplications.html

If it does work it will not replace launch vehicles or even reaction control thrusters.
What it could replace if it does work is station keeping ion drives and find use as a cruise engine.
It also should be noted VASIMR drives have a higher thrust then the EM drive.

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