FAILURE: SpaceX Falcon I Launch III - August 2

[HIP2BSQRE]

What are the possible causes of an non seperation of the 1st stage?  And how does Falcon and other rockets try to prevent no seperation events? 

From the Falcon webpage
"
Stage separation occurs via dual initiated separation bolts and a pneumatic pusher system. All components are space qualified and have flown before on other launch vehicles."

[Stowbridge]

Do we know if the vehicle had range safety? Or was it allowed to crash?

[sdsds]

Having said that, I wouldn't expect much to be left of that hardware after igniting the 2nd stage engine into a still-attached 1st stage/interstage.

That may not necessarily have happened.

The tiki blogger wrting as "Tosca Musk" apparently thinks the stage seperation issue was, "A glitch that resulted in the engine exploding." (See https://twitter.com/tikitosca.) She doesn't indicate which engine exploded, but it isn't difficult to believe a Kestrel firing into an attached first stage would result in an event indistinguishable from an engine explosion.

[Damon Hill]

Having said that, I wouldn't expect much to be left of that hardware after igniting the 2nd stage engine into a still-attached 1st stage/interstage.

That may not necessarily have happened.

The tiki blogger wrting as "Tosca Musk" apparently thinks the stage seperation issue was, "A glitch that resulted in the engine exploding." (See https://twitter.com/tikitosca. Is that a photo of Justine?) She doesn't indicate which engine exploded, but it isn't difficult to believe a Kestrel firing into an attached first stage would result in an event indistinguishable from an engine explosion.

Titan II and some other rockets normally did separation >after< second stage ignition, and I recall Gemini flights that resulted in a spectacular cloud of debris while going on to orbit.  But it's not the normal sequence for Falcon.

But we still don't know what the >exact< sequence of events were, and won't until the investigation has gathered all the available facts, and reports them. 

Consequently, continued speculation on our part as outsiders is all but useless.

[yinzer]

Having said that, I wouldn't expect much to be left of that hardware after igniting the 2nd stage engine into a still-attached 1st stage/interstage.

That may not necessarily have happened.

The tiki blogger wrting as "Tosca Musk" apparently thinks the stage seperation issue was, "A glitch that resulted in the engine exploding." (See https://twitter.com/tikitosca. Is that a photo of Justine?) She doesn't indicate which engine exploded, but it isn't difficult to believe a Kestrel firing into an attached first stage would result in an event indistinguishable from an engine explosion.

Titan II and some other rockets normally did separation >after< second stage ignition, and I recall Gemini flights that resulted in a spectacular cloud of debris while going on to orbit.  But it's not the normal sequence for Falcon.

These rockets (Proton is another example) all have vented interstages.  Without the vents, bad things are likely to happen to the upper stage shortly after ignition.

But we still don't know what the >exact< sequence of events were, and won't until the investigation has gathered all the available facts, and reports them. 

Consequently, continued speculation on our part as outsiders is all but useless.

Yup.

[nathan.moeller]

Space X - I hope you guys keep trying and wish you all the best along the way.  Good luck in your future attempts and achievements.

[Maverick]

Space X - I hope you guys keep trying and wish you all the best along the way.  Good luck in your future attempts and achievements.

Absolutely agree!

[Maverick]

On the video, they knew it had failed before the point of which 1-2 seperation was even due. What am I missing?

[pm1823]

These rockets (Proton is another example) all have vented interstages.  Without the vents, bad things are likely to happen to the upper stage shortly after ignition.

That's why Falcon-1 as other rockets, that use same "cold separation" sequence, should ignite second stage only after confirmed 1st stage separation. I don't think that Kestrel ignition was performed in this case, more likely that mission was aborted nominally, when no confirmation of 1st stage separation received about ~T+2:40-T+:2:50.

[sdsds]

A source apparently claiming inside knowledge has written:

The aft facing onboard camera showed the first stage violently recontacting second stage seconds after the separation. Several seconds later major portions of the second stage were torn away with the first stage. The second stage was observed to tumble and propellent covered the camera lens. Shortly thereafter a major explosion was observed and the video signal was lost by the receivers on the ground. Telemetry data continued as the second stage re-entered on a trajectory slightly north of the first stage. The second stage appeared to never ignite.

Please note there is no reason to trust this source, who apparently created the "Kwajrco" account on the english language wikipedia specifically to post this as unsubstantiated rumor. The language, however, indicates an author with some knowledge of space launches.

[Carl G]

On the video, they knew it had failed before the point of which 1-2 seperation was even due. What am I missing?

Good point.

[mtakala24]

On the video, they knew it had failed before the point of which 1-2 seperation was even due. What am I missing?

The webcast was delayed (and webcasts are always with some delay as encoding and buffering takes time). They pulled the plug on it as it failed, and viewers never got that far.

[landofgrey]

Okay, to reiterate what has already been said, there was a delay of 15-30 seconds between the video feed from Kwaj to us. The commentators and clock online were in realitime, but what was actually happening didn't show up on the video feed until 15 seconds later. They didn't claim an anomaly "before the screen went blank" or anything like that. What we heard, and the clock, was in realtime. The video from Kwaj and from the rocket was about 15 seonds delayed. Commmunications abilities from Kwaj are not good, to say the least. So put away your conspiracy theories about webcasts being cutoff and they knew stuff but wouldn't tell us. If you think that, you are wrong.

[cb6785]

Anyone knows if the Celestis Payload was onboard? It was not mentioned in the official presskit, online launch information, etc.
Perhaps it was bad charm not having Scotty on board...

[landofgrey]

The first stage burn and ascent were normal. Something happened to prevent 1st/2nd separation. It wasn't inadvertent or deliberate engine firings screwing things up. Pyro bolts or something failed to fire, and they'll figure out why. Nobody "knew it had failed before the point of which 1-2 seperation was even due".

[Skyrocket]

Anyone knows if the Celestis Payload was onboard? It was not mentioned in the official presskit, online launch information, etc.
Perhaps it was bad charm not having Scotty on board...

According to the Celestis website it was:

http://www.celestisexplorersflight.com/

[landofgrey]

spacex says the stages failed to separate.

Posted 20 minutes ago by Chris, from an email from Elon himself.

Elon sent the email to employees, friends, etc. of SpaceX. It's available on www.spacex.com now, as previously posted.

[landofgrey]

On the video, they knew it had failed before the point of which 1-2 seperation was even due. What am I missing?

Good point.

Incorrect. The video from the rocket was 15 or so seconds behind realtime, realtime data and commentary. That's why the failure was called before the video showed. Comm from Kwaj SUCKS A**. No landlines to the mainland. It's slow. That should be obvious to people on here. It's not instantaneous communications.

[landofgrey]

A significant investment as a precautionary measure ... now Elon will have to account to investors.  I get the feeling that the Falcon 1 will now just be a testbed for Falcon 9.  Maybe thats the way it has to be to make COTS a reality. Kind of an interesting statement.

SpaceX is invested almost entirely by Elon himself, not venture capitalists. For the most part, not entirely, he has to answer to himself.

[landofgrey]

There was nothing they could say. At least they had the courtesy to say there had been an anomaly and that they would get back to us as soon as they had something to say. Only then did they cut the feed. Really, what else could they do, just sit there and smile?

Obviosuly the launch failed. Obviosuly they don't know why (5 minutes later lol). So there's nothing Spacex could say that would add any new information, so why say anything? That's how they are. No wasted "blah blah blah" press releases. When there's something new to add, they will, and issue a press release. Until then, um, they're busy trying to figure out what happened so let's leave them alone. We're NOT mission critical, no matter what you armchair engineers might wish.