FAILURE: SpaceX Falcon I Launch III - August 2

[guidanceisgo]

A significant investment as a precautionary measure ... now Elon will have to account to investors.  I get the feeling that the Falcon 1 will now just be a testbed for Falcon 9.  Maybe thats the way it has to be to make COTS a reality. Kind of an interesting statement.

[Firehawk153]

Great news that the first stage performed as expected, I know today is still a disappointment but at least there's that.

[G-pit]

So the problem was with stage separation. A question to all you experts out there: Is it fair to assume that the oscillation seen in the video had nothing to do with the staging issue at hand?

[Jim]

]
Off topic, but wouldn't it be nice if they could fit that solar sail spacecraft, or anything other payload, with an escape rocket, like they do with manned capsules, so it doesn't get lost as often as the rocket does?  (Shroud serves as heat shield, add parachute.  I know there a lot of issues like reduced payload capacity and increased vehicle complexity, but it's just a thought.)

Not really practical.   The payload would have be designed for the abort accel.  Also how to deal with landing loads. 

Insurance is cheaper

[Jim]

Sorry for the basic/stupid question, but does SpaceX use active explosive devices on their LVs or do they just let it run out of fuel and crash.

Thrust termination on F1.  In other words, shut down and fall to your doom.  No explosive termination systems in the F1.

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Doesn't range safety at the Cape require an active destruct system?

yes it will

[James Lowe1]

Ok, thread now trimmed back. Please hit the "report to a moderator" if we've missed any posts that are out of place on this live update thread.

[Antares]

Awesome job, Chris, for having a site that Elon chooses to use.  Straight, unhindered knowledge from the man himself.  Kids, be glad we have this resource here at NSF to get the best information mere minutes after it happened.  And be glad Alt.Space has a patron like Elon willing to risk his own coin to do this.  Anyone who believes in space should be helping him or at least staying out of the way.

This second-guessing is for amateurs.

[Jim]

Rocket Science is really hard.
Cut them some slack.

This can be deleted if necessary

No,  I won't give them slack.  They brought this on themselves with their spin on cost and reliability.

First perform and then pound your chest

[dnavas]

Heartbreaking.  Best wishes to all of the folks at SpaceX.

Building rockets is a humbling experience, clearly.

Thanks for the info from Elon, and the video feed.  My feed here was quite laggy, and the roll was essentially obscured.  I await with interest to see what tiny thing(s) went wrong this time. 

-Dave

[Ford Mustang]

spacex says the stages failed to separate.

Posted 20 minutes ago by Chris, from an email from Elon himself.

[sdsds]

Great news that the first stage performed as expected, I know today is still a disappointment but at least there's that.

Agreed. But being careful Elon only wrote the first stage of flight under Merlin 1C power performed as expected. He did not assert all hardware on the first stage of the vehicle performed as expected. Something prevented successful stage sep!

[HIP2BSQRE]

But was not stage seperation one of the things that doomed flight 2?  Is stage seperation very hard?

[William Graham]

But was not stage seperation one of the things that doomed flight 2?  Is stage seperation very hard?

The problem on F2 was very different. On that flight, the top of the first stage hit the second stage engine during separation. From the reports on this flight, it sounds like it just didn't separate at all.

[Seattle Dave]

Elon's sent an e-mail:

It was obviously a big disappointment not to reach orbit on this flight.  On the plus side, the flight of our first stage, with the new Merlin 1C engine that will be used in Falcon 9, was picture perfect.  Unfortunately, a problem occurred with stage separation, causing the stages to be held together.  This is under investigation and I will send out a note as soon as we understand exactly what happened. 

The most important message I’d like to send right now is that SpaceX will not skip a beat in execution going forward.  We have flight four of Falcon 1 almost ready for flight and flight five right behind that.  I have also given the go ahead to begin fabrication of flight six.  Falcon 9 development will also continue unabated, taking into account the lessons learned with Falcon 1.  We have made great progress this past week with the successful nine engine firing.


As a precautionary measure to guard against the possibility of flight 3 not reaching orbit, SpaceX recently accepted a significant investment.  Combined with our existing cash reserves, that ensures we will have more than sufficient funding on hand to continue launching Falcon 1 and develop Falcon 9 and Dragon.  There should be absolutely zero question that SpaceX will prevail in reaching orbit and demonstrating reliable space transport.  For my part, I will never give up and I mean never. 

Thanks for your hard work and now on to flight four.


Elon

Chris, can you e-mail Elon back with our best wishes?

[HIP2BSQRE]

Flight 4 is scheduled for Sept...so what happens with that now?  Does anyone see Flight 4 taking place before the end of the year. 

Let's "assume" it was a seperator event, investigation, finding cause, report and fixing it.. etc any ...you are in the holiday season again.  Would you look at the whole vecheal again or just the part that failed? 

Remember--Falcon 9 is learning lessons from Falcon 1 and it is meant to fly in Q1 '09. 

[Antares]

I honestly wonder if they'll go look for the vehicle.  Could be very interesting evidence in there on this non-sep event.

[Chris Bergin]

Chris, can you e-mail Elon back with our best wishes?

I already have. I knew I didn't have to ask you all....as the vast majority of people on this site wouldn't wish him - and SpaceX - anything else.

[jimvela]

I honestly wonder if they'll go look for the vehicle.  Could be very interesting evidence in there on this non-sep event.

Oh I'm sure that there will be radar tracks of the parts coming down. 

I doubt that they would turn down any parts that could be found.

Having said that, I wouldn't expect much to be left of that hardware after igniting the 2nd stage engine into a still-attached 1st stage/interstage.

[sdsds]

Elon's email is now also at http://www.spacex.com/updates.php

[edkyle99]

Having said that, I wouldn't expect much to be left of that hardware after igniting the 2nd stage engine into a still-attached 1st stage/interstage.

That may not necessarily have happened.  It could have been a sequencing issue.  It might not be possible to start the Kestrel engine until separation is confirmed, for example.  Before staging, there needs to be a Merlin 1C shutdown signal, most likely.  Before the Merlin can shut down, a tank depletion sensor may have to trip.  Etc.. 

 - Ed Kyle