Space Ship Two - General Thread

[mattfalk]

I've read Scaled will be building at least 2 White Knight 2's for Virgin Galactic.  Will they be working the next WK2 soon, or are they instead focusing on finishing Virgin's first fleet of SS2's first? 

[Orbiter]

I've read Scaled will be building at least 2 White Knight 2's for Virgin Galactic.  Will they be working the next WK2 soon, or are they instead focusing on finishing Virgin's first fleet of SS2's first? 

This is true.

[Jim]

I wonder if we might at some point see Orbital Sciences or NASA purchase or lease a White Knight 2.

It would be a lease

[cb6785]

Are there any other aircraft where the pilot sits SO far to stbd from the aircraft centerline? It just looks to me like it will be awkward, especially to land. Any pilots in the group?

No problem in flight...with landing under more complicated conditions (windshear, etc.) one will have to get used to it... It's more easy when you sit center und you have a more "obvious feeling" where your wingtips, your tail, etc. are relativ to you...but with some time to develop some feeling for it.....why not.

Maybe a camera located at the roll axis would be nice...

Or a Rutanish solution ... paint a stripe under where the pilot should be during the landing ...

That will help with landing on the centerline, but some of the less obvious physiological cues (such as roll control coupling into vertical motion at the cockpit) will require a bit more getting used to.

Yep, I'm more thinking of a combined instrument: FD overlayed with a roll-axis camera view should give you a pretty good sense of things. I remember seeing it as the main instrument for manual drone testing.

[Garrett]

A nice picture of the evolution of White Knight Two from WK1 and the Global Flyer:
http://www.virgingalactic.com/pressftp/content/Presspacks/Efficiency%20Graphic%20_no%20text.tif

The WK1 was used for drop test flights of the DARPA/Boeing X-37, so I imagine that WK2, with its greater lifting capacity, will be in demand for similar, possibly more ambitious, projects.

Scaled also has some direct experience with orbital spacecraft. They worked closely with Orbital on the development of their succesful Pegasus LV. I imagine that any future Scaled/Virgin low earth orbit vehicle will be strongly influenced by WK2, SS2 and Orbital's Pegasus.

In my opinion, Scaled and Virgin will probably follow up their Tier One program (suborbital) with a Tier 1.5 program, i.e. an almost orbit program, for long distance inter-continental travel. Assuming that commercial Tier One flights begin in 2010 and are a success, my guess is that the first commercial Tier 1.5 flights would begin in 2015. If this is a success, then commercial orbital flights would probably begin somtime between 2020 to 2025.

[vt_hokie]

Nifty design.  Our senior project was a VTOL aeromedical rescue aircraft but we didn't have access to cool CAD tools to design it with.  It was pretty much strictly pencil-and-vellum. 

Thanks, wish I could take the credit for it!   You know, I'm pretty sure I just saw our design team's leader as a grad student with the MIT team on the show Robocars!

[Skyrocket]

Are there any other aircraft where the pilot sits SO far to stbd from the aircraft centerline? It just looks to me like it will be awkward, especially to land. Any pilots in the group?

I think, the WWII Heinkel H-111Z might be a contender for the most off-centerline pilot position

[Alpha Control]

Announcement today of SpaceDev signing a multi-year contract with Scaled Composites for SS2 hybrid motor work.  The contract includes engineering services as well as development, integration & testing - ground and air.

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=26231

[docmordrid]

Back To The Future 

[antonioe]

I wonder if we might at some point see Orbital Sciences or NASA purchase or lease a White Knight 2.

Naaah... too small... next size up...

[Garrett]

I wonder if we might at some point see Orbital Sciences or NASA purchase or lease a White Knight 2.

Naaah... too small... next size up...

Hmmm, me thinks they will.
 - White Knight Two payload capacity: 30,500 kg
 - Orbital Sciences Pegasus: 18,500 kg
 - Orbital Sciences Pegasus XL: 23,130 kg

[Jim]

I wonder if we might at some point see Orbital Sciences or NASA purchase or lease a White Knight 2.

Naaah... too small... next size up...

Hmmm, me thinks they will.
 - White Knight Two payload capacity: 30,500 kg
 - Orbital Sciences Pegasus: 18,500 kg
 - Orbital Sciences Pegasus XL: 23,130 kg

1.  NASA has no need to purchase one.  If there is a need, it would lease the services vs buying an aircraft.  Same with OSC, they lease too.

2.  Hmmmm, How can "think" that when the designer of the Pegasus (antonioe) just said no in the previous posts

[jongoff]

Hmmm, me thinks they will.
 - White Knight Two payload capacity: 30,500 kg
 - Orbital Sciences Pegasus: 18,500 kg
 - Orbital Sciences Pegasus XL: 23,130 kg

That WK2 number looks like the one from Wikipedia, right?  That number has been in doubt for a while.  Rob Coppinger was claiming 30,000lb not kg.  The latest number I've heard from "little birds here in Mojave" is 35,000lb.

Now mind you, I don't know what's driving that 35klb number, and if there wouldn't be a way to improve it a bit (say by launching at 30kft instead of 50kft), but at least AFAICT, it's not quite up to lifting Pegasus.

~Jon

[antonioe]

I wonder if we might at some point see Orbital Sciences or NASA purchase or lease a White Knight 2.

Naaah... too small... next size up...

Hmmm, me thinks they will.
 - White Knight Two payload capacity: 30,500 kg
 - Orbital Sciences Pegasus: 18,500 kg
 - Orbital Sciences Pegasus XL: 23,130 kg

- Orbital Sciences Taurus II: 211,200 kg     

[rank amature]

Any ideas on how much SS2 weights?
Gross mass on take off?

[kevin-rf]

 

- Orbital Sciences Taurus II: 211,200 kg     

So accurate, out to three sigs even But can we get it out to the nearest milligram? 

[docmordrid]

Any ideas on how much SS2 weights?
Gross mass on take off?

Given that SpaceDev just announced a contract with Scaled yesterday for producing the hybrid motors any talk of takeoff mass is speculative at best. That said WK2 has a lift capability of 30,500 kg.

http://spacedev.com/press_more_info.php?id=282

[rank amature]

Speculate away!

I say 12 tons, based on nothing.

[jongoff]

Given that SpaceDev just announced a contract with Scaled yesterday for producing the hybrid motors any talk of takeoff mass is speculative at best. That said WK2 has a lift capability of 30,500 kg.

Unless my sources are completely wrong, that 30,500kg number is way off.  The number I got most recently was 35,000 *lb* not kg. 

~Jon

[iamlucky13]

I wonder if we might at some point see Orbital Sciences or NASA purchase or lease a White Knight 2.

Naaah... too small... next size up...

Hmmm, me thinks they will.
 - White Knight Two payload capacity: 30,500 kg
 - Orbital Sciences Pegasus: 18,500 kg
 - Orbital Sciences Pegasus XL: 23,130 kg

- Orbital Sciences Taurus II: 211,200 kg     

But I assume you're not planning on discontinuing the Pegasus line?

The inference behind my idle speculation was that it might be cheaper and in some ways simpler to switch to leasing a WK2, which is built with airdropping payloads in mind and will have some its costs defrayed by the SS2 business, compared to maintaining the 35 year old L-1011 carrier aircraft for a handful missions per year.

On the other hand, L-1011's have become a rarity. It's great to see Stargazer still getting some use.

And then there is this apparent debate about WK2's real payload. Given that the WK1 has 8,000 pounds of thrust and an 8,000 pound payload capacity, the WK2 with it's 28,000 pounds of thrust seems more likely to be in the 30,000 pound than 60,000 pound payload range.

By the way, I just stumbled across the paper cut-out Pegasus on the OSC website. Cute...