Space Ship Two - General Thread

[spectre9]

Really I have no idea about the terms and conditions of purchasing a ticket.

I guess it's first in best dressed in which case nobody would want to step out of line.

Without an alternative it doesn't matter too much but why are they going so slow? If I was a customer I'd be very unhappy at the delays.

We'll soon see if XCOR can catch up. I guess the key idea is reuse, if you can't reuse the hardware you can't get a high turnover of flights.

Is money the issue? Isn't Branson rich enough? Why is it taking so long?

Will indemnity be extended as long as it takes?

Was Spaceport America a white elephant? At least for now 

[QuantumG]

Why is it taking so long?

It's never been done before, so every crack (*cough*) is filled with peril.

[R7]

Was Spaceport America a white elephant?

How dare you! ~$200,000,000 fancy building in middle of nowhere for unproven market of flights to briefly nowhere and back will be a great success.

[yg1968]

Really I have no idea about the terms and conditions of purchasing a ticket.

I guess it's first in best dressed in which case nobody would want to step out of line.

Without an alternative it doesn't matter too much but why are they going so slow? If I was a customer I'd be very unhappy at the delays.

Last year, there was an article of a guy in his nineties that was unhappy about the delays and who asked for a refund. The guy said that by the time that SS2 flies, he will be too old. So they gave him a refund for the amount of his deposit.

Incidentally, for the order flights, I am guessing that it goes on a first come, first serve basis.

[JohnFornaro]

Was Spaceport America a white elephant?

Was?  Depends on what "is" means.

How dare you! ~$200,000,000 fancy building in middle of nowhere for unproven market of flights to briefly nowhere and back will be a great success.

Right. 

But I gotta go now.

[Robert Thompson]

Was Spaceport America a white elephant?

How dare you! ~$200,000,000 fancy building in middle of nowhere for unproven market of flights to briefly nowhere and back will be a great success.

Maginot

[vt_hokie]

To me it seems like an awfully long time in between test flights.  I don't know if they're finding issues on every flight that require design changes though. 

What is the required turnaround time and flight rate for this vehicle once it becomes operational according to the business plan?

[daver]

Article in the London Evening Standard.   http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/beam-me-up-branson-soon-you-too-could-be-taking-a-flight-into-space--if-you-have-130000-to-spare-8499376.html

Has a good description of what to expect but nothing really new.  500 tickets sold.  Work should be completed at the end of 2013 with daily flights at the beginning of 2014.

[Moe Grills]

Article in the London Evening Standard.   http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/beam-me-up-branson-soon-you-too-could-be-taking-a-flight-into-space--if-you-have-130000-to-spare-8499376.html

Has a good description of what to expect but nothing really new.  500 tickets sold.  Work should be completed at the end of 2013 with daily flights at the beginning of 2014.

Those British journalists know little about the authority of the FAA.
It will be the FAA that basically decides WHEN the SS2 is reasonably
reliable and safe enough for paying passengers to fly onboard it into space.
The FAA may require 20, 40, 60 or 100 test flights before they certify the craft.

I don't know what the FAA will require; neither do you; they are in uncharted territory, legally speaking.
So?
 You can kiss paying passenger service into space before late 2014 at the earliest goodbye.
On the positive side, it might be possible that the present testflight regime
of the SS2 might take it past the Karman line before years' end.
BTW.
The year was 2004; SS1; been there, done that.

[oiorionsbelt]

How do you get from this

I don't know what the FAA will require; neither do you; they are in uncharted territory, legally speaking.
So?

 to this?

You can kiss paying passenger service into space before late 2014 at the earliest goodbye.

[HMXHMX]

Article in the London Evening Standard.   http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/beam-me-up-branson-soon-you-too-could-be-taking-a-flight-into-space--if-you-have-130000-to-spare-8499376.html

Has a good description of what to expect but nothing really new.  500 tickets sold.  Work should be completed at the end of 2013 with daily flights at the beginning of 2014.

Those British journalists know little about the authority of the FAA.
It will be the FAA that basically decides WHEN the SS2 is reasonably
reliable and safe enough for paying passengers to fly onboard it into space.
The FAA may require 20, 40, 60 or 100 test flights before they certify the craft.

I don't know what the FAA will require; neither do you; they are in uncharted territory, legally speaking.
So?
 You can kiss paying passenger service into space before late 2014 at the earliest goodbye.
On the positive side, it might be possible that the present testflight regime
of the SS2 might take it past the Karman line before years' end.
BTW.
The year was 2004; SS1; been there, done that.

FAA/AST does not regulate for passenger safety. There is no certification.

[QuantumG]

The FAA may require 20, 40, 60 or 100 test flights before they certify the craft.

As HMXHMX says, the FAA doesn't have that authority.

As for how many test flights before paying customers, I'm sure VG's counting will be a little suspect if and when they ever do start throwing around such numbers. They already claim ~23 test flights and they haven't even lit the engine yet.

[JMS]

I hope customers start to protest.

If I were a paying customer, I wouldn't be pushing VG to the flight line before they felt the system was safe.

[beancounter]

The FAA may require 20, 40, 60 or 100 test flights before they certify the craft.

As HMXHMX says, the FAA doesn't have that authority.

As for how many test flights before paying customers, I'm sure VG's counting will be a little suspect if and when they ever do start throwing around such numbers. They already claim ~23 test flights and they haven't even lit the engine yet.

Well yes they have but just not in flight as yet.  Sorry minor nitpick    I suppose I should qualify that by stating that this is assuming that they are going with their existing hybrid engine and aren't going to swap to a liquid one as their operational engine. 
Cheers.

[happyflower]

What a difference between Scaled Composite and VG! The speed of engineering, development, building, testing, and flying between these two companies is very noticeable. Aren't many of the same engineers with scaled working with VG now? What has changed? It took SC less than a year from the first flight of SS1 to their first X prize flight.

Is the difference simply a larger company with more legal hurdles? More red tape? More... what?

[Robotbeat]

What a difference between Scaled Composite and VG! The speed of engineering, development, building, testing, and flying between these two companies is very noticeable. Aren't many of the same engineers with scaled working with VG now? What has changed? It took SC less than a year from the first flight of SS1 to their first X prize flight.

Is the difference simply a larger company with more legal hurdles? More red tape? More... what?

Hybrids don't get easier as you scale up. They're also going to be flying passengers with this and thus it needs to be very safe. Also, they had fatal accidents early in the program which understandably means they're being careful (and set them back significantly... Every time someone on the internet gets upset at them for not being fast enough, they should remember this fact). They don't have such a firm deadline, either. The craft itself is much bigger as well.

[oiorionsbelt]

What a difference between Scaled Composite and VG! The speed of engineering, development, building, testing, and flying between these two companies is very noticeable. Aren't many of the same engineers with scaled working with VG now? What has changed? It took SC less than a year from the first flight of SS1 to their first X prize flight.

Is the difference simply a larger company with more legal hurdles? More red tape? More... what?

AFAIK Scaled never made a comercial aircraft or spacecraft. For that matter no one has ever made a commercial spacecraft.

[Danderman]

What a difference between Scaled Composite and VG! The speed of engineering, development, building, testing, and flying between these two companies is very noticeable. Aren't many of the same engineers with scaled working with VG now? What has changed? It took SC less than a year from the first flight of SS1 to their first X prize flight.

Is the difference simply a larger company with more legal hurdles? More red tape? More... what?

Passengers.

[happyflower]

What a difference between Scaled Composite and VG! The speed of engineering, development, building, testing, and flying between these two companies is very noticeable. Aren't many of the same engineers with scaled working with VG now? What has changed? It took SC less than a year from the first flight of SS1 to their first X prize flight.

Is the difference simply a larger company with more legal hurdles? More red tape? More... what?

AFAIK Scaled never made a comercial aircraft or spacecraft. For that matter no one has ever made a commercial spacecraft.

Don't you consider space ship one a commercial spacecraft? I mean I know it was sub-orbital but thats still space right? Didn't scaled Composites manufacture that ship?

[Ben the Space Brit]

What a difference between Scaled Composite and VG! The speed of engineering, development, building, testing, and flying between these two companies is very noticeable. Aren't many of the same engineers with scaled working with VG now? What has changed? It took SC less than a year from the first flight of SS1 to their first X prize flight.

Is the difference simply a larger company with more legal hurdles? More red tape? More... what?

AFAIK Scaled never made a comercial aircraft or spacecraft. For that matter no one has ever made a commercial spacecraft.

Don't you consider space ship one a commercial spacecraft? I mean I know it was sub-orbital but thats still space right? Didn't scaled Composites manufacture that ship?

It was an experimental technology demonstrator and was much, much lighter than SS2.  Comparing the two is about the same as comparing an X-plane to a commercial airliner.  Completely different levels of safety, reliability and re-usability required.