Space Ship Two - General Thread

[happyflower]

Virgin Galactic Granted License Exemption for Spaceflight Experience

So after SS2 is up and running. Can another SS2 be "designed" and "built" in UAE for launch operations from that country bypassing US laws?

[Kabloona]

Virgin Galactic Granted License Exemption for Spaceflight Experience

So after SS2 is up and running. Can another SS2 be "designed" and "built" in UAE for launch operations from that country bypassing US laws?

No, the exemption will allow only foreign "operations," ie operating from foreign soil carrying foreign passengers. But the hardware/technology itself is still controlled, ie the know-how and the hardware itself cannot be transferred. No hardware would be built outside the US, only "operated" outside US.

[Robotbeat]

Virgin Galactic Granted License Exemption for Spaceflight Experience

So after SS2 is up and running. Can another SS2 be "designed" and "built" in UAE for launch operations from that country bypassing US laws?

No, the exemption will allow only foreign "operations," ie operating from foreign soil carrying foreign passengers. But the hardware/technology itself is still controlled, ie the know-how and the hardware itself cannot be transferred. No hardware would be built outside the US, only "operated" outside US.

Wet lease?

[Kabloona]

Virgin Galactic Granted License Exemption for Spaceflight Experience

So after SS2 is up and running. Can another SS2 be "designed" and "built" in UAE for launch operations from that country bypassing US laws?

No, the exemption will allow only foreign "operations," ie operating from foreign soil carrying foreign passengers. But the hardware/technology itself is still controlled, ie the know-how and the hardware itself cannot be transferred. No hardware would be built outside the US, only "operated" outside US.

Wet lease?

Correction to my earlier comment: after re-reading the link, the exemption appears to allow foreign nationals to be passengers on the ship on launches from US soil, from NM. It says that Virgin Galactic "hopes" eventually to be able to operate from foreign soil, but that's another bridge to cross later. For now, the Gov't appears to be allowing foreign passengers to ride on launches only from US soil.

[beancounter]

ok..had a thought..they don't happen often so better put it out before i forget it..

they had another motor test and if there are Isp issues, I will be an eternal optimist here and see it as being a bit of a positive.  I have always thought that 6 in the cabin is pretty tight..take 2 seats away to save on mass (lets say 300 kg or so since you need fewer chairs etc) and  you now have only 4 passengers floating around with tonnes of room,  you increase your flight rate by 50% (profit per flight is lower) and a bigger draw since other sub orbital carriers don;t have the room to float around...

motor issues have been debated to death...well sort of

so to take a side track..what are others thoughts on the room issues on SS2?
jb2 

Fire: 10
Date: 17 April 12

Objectives:
Tenth full scale flight design RM2 hot-fire.
Continued evaluation of all systems and components:
- Pressurization
- Valve/Injector
- Fuel formulation and geometry
- Nozzle
- Structure
- Performance

Results:
All objectives completed. Performed targeted 40 second hot fire as planned. Duration of burn chosen to allow examination of internal geometry

Perhaps the only indication might be the reference to 'examination of internal geometry'.  If there's motor issues, then this may point to uneven grain but other than that, I don't see them.  I'd say the delays are only related to ensuring that they get things right first time.  Anyway only an uninformed view.

[spectre9]

I must admit I recently watched Black Sky and it brought me to tears.

I do wish these guys the very best. What they've already done is truly remarkable.

Melvill, Binnie, Rutan, Siebold, Tighe. All legends. 

[Confusador]

Perhaps the only indication might be the reference to 'examination of internal geometry'.  If there's motor issues, then this may point to uneven grain but other than that, I don't see them. 

The 'examination of internal geometry' note has been on several of the recent test fires, and was discussed extensively earlier in the thread.  The conclusion was that it is only sensible to have each test fire be of different duration, so that you can compare the resulting geometries and refine the model of how it burns.

There's so little new in test notes that it's hard to draw any conclusions about progress.  Nice to see that they're still working, though.

[Wyvern]

Here's some recent info from http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120426-713921.html

"--Expects to finish developing spacecraft engine in weeks

--Sees first commercial fee-paying customers reaching space by the end of 2013

--Abu Dhabi selected by Virgin to become the second location for its SpacePort"

"Richard Branson's space travel company, Virgin Galactic, which is 32% owned by Abu Dhabi's Aabar Investments, expects to finish developing its rocket engine in the next two months, the group's chief executive said, marking a significant step in its ambition to become the first commercial space flight operator.

Virgin Galactic is currently testing the engine on land and aims to test fly its spaceship with rocket power by the end of year, paving the way for the first commercial fee-paying customers to reach space at the end of 2013, Virgin Galactic Chief Executive George Whitesides told Zawya Dow Jones in a recent interview.

"I think we're nearly there," said Whitesides, a former NASA chief of staff. "Within a month or two, we expect we'll have an engine we can put in the [spacecraft] vehicle."

"We would carry on that powered flight testing into 2013 for several months leading, eventually we hope, to the start of commercial operations towards the end of 2013," he added."

"Whitesides, who has been CEO for nearly two years, said he was "very close" to having an engine to power the spaceship but declined to say how many rocket-powered test flights it would conduct.

"It depends on how the whole system works," he said. It's not just the engine--it's the airframe, the control services."

"What we want to see before commercial operations is no surprises. We could reach no surprises relatively quickly or we could take a while to get there," Whitesides added."

So from what I can see the schedule has been pushed back again.  I know I know "It'll be done when it's done" but I am still anxious to have the first flights beginning soon.

[Confusador]

A bit more information, via Jeff Foust:

Whitesides told me that the motor that will be ready for SpaceShipTwo soon will be a “starter” motor for short-duration powered tests, not the full motor.

He also collects some info on the state of the company, but I at least am more interested in the vehicle.

[HMXHMX]

Here's some recent info from http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120426-713921.html

"--Expects to finish developing spacecraft engine in weeks

--Sees first commercial fee-paying customers reaching space by the end of 2013

--Abu Dhabi selected by Virgin to become the second location for its SpacePort"

"Richard Branson's space travel company, Virgin Galactic, which is 32% owned by Abu Dhabi's Aabar Investments, expects to finish developing its rocket engine in the next two months, the group's chief executive said, marking a significant step in its ambition to become the first commercial space flight operator.

Virgin Galactic is currently testing the engine on land and aims to test fly its spaceship with rocket power by the end of year, paving the way for the first commercial fee-paying customers to reach space at the end of 2013, Virgin Galactic Chief Executive George Whitesides told Zawya Dow Jones in a recent interview.

"I think we're nearly there," said Whitesides, a former NASA chief of staff. "Within a month or two, we expect we'll have an engine we can put in the [spacecraft] vehicle."

"We would carry on that powered flight testing into 2013 for several months leading, eventually we hope, to the start of commercial operations towards the end of 2013," he added."

"Whitesides, who has been CEO for nearly two years, said he was "very close" to having an engine to power the spaceship but declined to say how many rocket-powered test flights it would conduct.

"It depends on how the whole system works," he said. It's not just the engine--it's the airframe, the control services."

"What we want to see before commercial operations is no surprises. We could reach no surprises relatively quickly or we could take a while to get there," Whitesides added."

So from what I can see the schedule has been pushed back again.  I know I know "It'll be done when it's done" but I am still anxious to have the first flights beginning soon.

A more insightful article here:

http://www.newspacejournal.com/2012/05/02/virgin-making-news-in-the-middle-east/

Foust reports: "In a brief conversation Saturday in Washington, where he was on a panel at the USA Science and Engineering Festival, Whitesides told me that the motor that will be ready for SpaceShipTwo soon will be a “starter” motor for short-duration powered tests, not the full motor."

[Danderman]

--Abu Dhabi selected by Virgin to become the second location for its SpacePort"

I have lost count of how many second locations that Virgin has selected over the years. I suspect that ITAR may be a factor in limiting selection of a second home for SS2.

[go4mars]

“We think the target market that we will be looking at soon will be the order of magnitude of about $500 million a year,” Branson told the publication in an interview.

Does that mean $500 million a year give or take an order of magnitude? 

[Zond]

The FAA has issued the experimental permit for SS2:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ast/launch_license/active_permits/media/Scaled_Composites_SS2_EP_12-007.pdf

[Chris Bergin]

FAA Launch Permit Gives Virgin Galactic’s Space Vehicles 

the Green Light for Powered Flight

 

SpaceShipTwo Set to Go for Heavy-Weight Glide Tests

with Supersonic Flight Targeted for Year End

 

 

 

MOJAVE, Calif. – (May 30, 2012) Virgin Galactic, the world’s first commercial spaceline, announced today that its vehicle developer, Scaled Composites (Scaled), has been granted an experimental launch permit from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for its suborbital spacecraft, SpaceshipTwo, and the carrier aircraft, WhiteKnightTwo.

 

“This important milestone enables our team to progress to the rocket-powered phase of test flight, bringing us a major step closer to bringing our customers to space,” said George Whitesides, president and CEO of Virgin Galactic.  “We thank the FAA for their timely issuance of this permit, and for their responsible oversight of the test program.”

 

Already, SpaceShipTwo and WhiteKnightTwo have made significant progress in their flight test program. With 80 test flights completed, WhiteKnightTwo is substantially through its test plan, while the more recently constructed SpaceShipTwo has safely completed sixteen free flights, including three that tested the vehicle’s unique “feathering” re-entry system.  Additionally, ten test firings of the full scale SpaceShipTwo rocket motor, including full duration burns, have been safely and successfully completed.

                                     

With this permit now in hand, Scaled is now authorized to press onward towards rocket-powered test flights. In preparation for those powered flights, SpaceShipTwo will soon return to flight, testing the aerodynamic performance of the spacecraft with the full weight of the rocket motor system on board.  Integration of key rocket motor components, already begun during a now-concluding period of downtime for routine maintenance, will continue into the autumn.  Scaled expects to begin rocket powered, supersonic flights under the just-issued experimental permit toward the end of the year.

                                                                   

“The Spaceship program is making steady progress, and we are all looking forward to lighting the vehicle’s rocket engine in flight for the first time,” said Doug Shane, president of Scaled.

 

Although a handful of experimental launch permits have been granted to other rockets, SpaceShipTwo is the first rocket-powered vehicle that carries humans on board to receive such a permit.  SpaceShipOne, the manned spaceship successfully flown to space in 2004 and the basis for the design of SpaceShipTwo, flew before the Experimental Permit regulatory regime was established.

 

The FAA’s Office of Commercial Space Transportation issues permits after it has determined that the vehicle operator has taken the appropriate steps to protect the public during testing. Permitees must submit detailed plans for vehicle design and operation in order to ensure that all possible scenarios have been addressed.

 

 

About Virgin Galactic

Virgin Galactic, owned by Sir Richard Branson’s Virgin Group and aabar Investments PJS, is on track to be the world’s first commercial spaceline. The new spaceship (SpaceShipTwo, VSS Enterprise) and carrier craft (WhiteKnightTwo, VMS Eve) have both been developed for Virgin Galactic by Mojave-based Scaled Composites. Founded by Burt Rutan, Scaled developed SpaceShipOne, which in 2004 claimed the $10m Ansari X Prize as the world’s first privately developed manned spacecraft. Virgin Galactic’s new vehicles share much of the same basic design, but are being built to carry six customers, or the equivalent scientific research payload, on sub-orbital space flights, allowing an out-of-the-seat, zero-gravity experience and offering astounding views of the planet from the black sky of space for tourist astronauts and a unique microgravity platform for researchers. The VSS Enterprise and VMS Eve test flight program is well under way, leading to Virgin Galactic commercial operations, which will be based at Spaceport America in New Mexico.

 

About Scaled

Scaled Composites, LLC, a wholly owned subsidiary of Northrop Grumman Corporation, is an aerospace and specialty composites development company and the birthplace of many of the world's most exciting aircraft in recent decades, including SpaceShipOne that won the $10 million Ansari X Prize in 2004, SpaceShipTwo and Global Flyer.  Founded in 1982 by Burt Rutan, Northrop Grumman's Scaled Composites continues to focus on innovative, out-of-the-box aerospace solutions through its broad experience in air vehicle design, tooling and manufacturing, specialty composite structure design, analysis and fabrication, and developmental flight tests of air and space vehicles.

 

[FinalFrontier]

That's big news. Alright then here we go 


Let the speculation on first powered test flight begin.

[Garrett]

Let the speculation on first powered test flight begin.

December. 
(which will be over 8 years since the last powered flight of SS1  )

Still, it's a great milestone. Let's wish them well for the rocket motor integration.

[Danderman]

So, what is the SpaceShip Company in relation to Scaled and VG, and their relation to Stratolauncher?

[Garrett]

So, what is the SpaceShip Company in relation to Scaled and VG, and their relation to Stratolauncher?

http://www.thespaceshipcompany.com/about/who_we_are

With Virgin Galactic, we engaged Scaled Composites to develop a new and innovative spaceflight system to Virgin Galactic’s specifications. We then focused on building our team, operations, supply chain and capabilities at Mojave Air & Space Port.

I see them as a sort of spin-off from Scaled Composites that builds and maintains fleets of WK2 and SS2. Probably allows Scaled Composites to concentrate on their core activity, namely a "an aerospace and specialty composites development company"

This is how I would resume it:
VG is a customer of TSC
Scaled is a contractor of TSC.
Scaled is a contractor of Stratolaunch (I don't think TSC are involved with Stratolaunch)

[Jason1701]

Let the speculation on first powered test flight begin.

December. 
(which will be over 8 years since the last powered flight of SS1  )

Still, it's a great milestone. Let's wish them well for the rocket motor integration.

My guess is Q1 2013, and with the baby motor (not full RM2).

[Danderman]

So, what is the SpaceShip Company in relation to Scaled and VG, and their relation to Stratolauncher?

http://www.thespaceshipcompany.com/about/who_we_are

With Virgin Galactic, we engaged Scaled Composites to develop a new and innovative spaceflight system to Virgin Galactic’s specifications. We then focused on building our team, operations, supply chain and capabilities at Mojave Air & Space Port.

I see them as a sort of spin-off from Scaled Composites that builds and maintains fleets of WK2 and SS2. Probably allows Scaled Composites to concentrate on their core activity, namely a "an aerospace and specialty composites development company"

This is how I would resume it:
VG is a customer of TSC
Scaled is a contractor of TSC.
Scaled is a contractor of Stratolaunch (I don't think TSC are involved with Stratolaunch)

TSC and Stratolaunch are both at least partially owned by Paul Allen, AFAIK.