Space Ship Two - General Thread

[Calorspace]

How about having something other than just a rumour, before people start telling VG what they do or don't need

[QuantumG]

What would that be?  An announcement of failure?

The absence of flights, tests and sensible public statements is what a large range of intelligent people are basing their concern on.  There simply hasn't been the kind of activity that is required for a rocket development program.

[Calorspace]

There simply hasn't been the kind of activity that is required for a rocket development program.

That is completely stupid. and correction to your above post: There is an absence of REPORTS OF ACTIVITY.

It has only been a few weeks since they stated testing would begin soon. 

Give them a chance before you start talking doom and gloom.

[QuantumG]

Dude, they've been working on this rocket for years.

[Jason1701]

They could be taking a page from Blue Origin's book. I know that wasn't their previous media style, but styles can change.

[kevin-rf]

Dude, they've been working on this rocket for years.

Your point is? It will fly when they have done the work they need to do, and not a second before...

[baldusi]

There simply hasn't been the kind of activity that is required for a rocket development program.

That is completely stupid. and correction to your above post: There is an absence of REPORTS OF ACTIVITY.

It has only been a few weeks since they stated testing would begin soon. 

Give them a chance before you start talking doom and gloom.

Last report of engine testing was May 24th 2011. Hardly lack of information. From what more knowledgeable people said, nothing of what they disclosed was out of line for a end of 2012 powered flight.

[Rocket Science]

Very nice... two of those would be even sweeter...

It would take at least two, possibly three, and would be my engine of choice for the job, all things considered.

Yup, we like margin...

[Jason1701]

Last report of engine testing was May 24th 2011. Hardly lack of information. From what more knowledgeable people said, nothing of what they disclosed was out of line for a end of 2012 powered flight.

March 24, actually.

[HMXHMX]

How about having something other than just a rumour, before people start telling VG what they do or don't need

If VG was as voluble about the motor progress as they are about every other milestone – no matter how minor – of their WK2/SS2 program, then speculation might be unnecessary.  But those of us who have worked in this field for some time know that five or six hot fires do not a human rated propulsion program make.

I'd love to offer a more comprehensive comment, but all I can say is I'd like to see VG succeed by making the right choices when it comes to propulsion and certain other issues.  Otherwise, I'm constrained by both NDAs and industry associations.

I can say, as a personal opinion, that the choice of a hybrid motor was the right one for SS1 (and was suggested to Burt by me and my business partner).  It was the wrong one for SS2 – something I have been telling VG and others since 2004.

[mmeijeri]

I can say, as a personal opinion, that the choice of a hybrid motor was the right one for SS1 (and was suggested to Burt by me and my business partner).  It was the wrong one for SS2 – something I have been telling VG and others since 2004.

Can you explain why in your opinion it was the right choice for SS1 but not for SS2?

[HMXHMX]

I can say, as a personal opinion, that the choice of a hybrid motor was the right one for SS1 (and was suggested to Burt by me and my business partner).  It was the wrong one for SS2 – something I have been telling VG and others since 2004.

Can you explain why in your opinion it was the right choice for SS1 but not for SS2?

SS1 was experimental.  You could afford to dismount the used motor, install another one.  It wasn't meant to be anything but a demonstrator, so delays and problems were acceptable.  One had two weeks between flights to win the X-Prize.

SS2 is mean to fly as often as twice per day.  I think it is misguided to assume that a operational civilian spaceship should have its propulsion system disassembled, reassembled and then flown with paying passengers without a hot fire test on a twice daily basis.  Besides that, it is costly.  And their hybrid propellants cost twenty to fifty times what LOX-hydrocarbon costs, not to mention expenditure of a high cost nozzle on each flight.

[Jason1701]

Space.com has an article that clarifies a few points from this thread.

http://www.space.com/11928-virgin-galactic-spaceshiptwo-test-flights-space-tourism.html

[vt_hokie]

The first in-flight firing is still to be determined.

"Realistically, probably around end of the year or early next year. We'll have to see how things go," Whitesides said.

Man, this program is moving along at a snail's pace.  And already it was far behind schedule.  This new "faster, better, cheaper" era of commercial spaceflight is looking more and more like the good 'ol government run space efforts we're so used to! 

[robertross]

The first in-flight firing is still to be determined.

"Realistically, probably around end of the year or early next year. We'll have to see how things go," Whitesides said.

Man, this program is moving along at a snail's pace.  And already it was far behind schedule.  This new "faster, better, cheaper" era of commercial spaceflight is looking more and more like the good 'ol government run space efforts we're so used to! 

It's called being prudent, best expectations, unforeseen circumstances, and cost overruns.

Once all the vehicles are up and flying (hopefully they all are) we need to look back and take stock of what was hoped for, promised, and delivered. I'm sure some will be surprised, while others will just shrug it off.

[Jason1701]

The first in-flight firing is still to be determined.

"Realistically, probably around end of the year or early next year. We'll have to see how things go," Whitesides said.

Man, this program is moving along at a snail's pace.  And already it was far behind schedule.  This new "faster, better, cheaper" era of commercial spaceflight is looking more and more like the good 'ol government run space efforts we're so used to! 

It's called being prudent, best expectations, unforeseen circumstances, and cost overruns.

Once all the vehicles are up and flying (hopefully they all are) we need to look back and take stock of what was hoped for, promised, and delivered. I'm sure some will be surprised, while others will just shrug it off.

The schedule delays do remind me of certain government programs, but SS2 is unlike those in that only Branson's money is on the hook -- not taxpayers'. I think that makes it a lot different.

[vt_hokie]

The schedule delays do remind me of certain government programs, but SS2 is unlike those in that only Branson's money is on the hook -- not taxpayers'. I think that makes it a lot different.

Except that the anti-government spending types tend to forget that efforts like this one make extensive use of technology that came out of government sponsored research and development.

[Danderman]

The schedule delays do remind me of certain government programs, but SS2 is unlike those in that only Branson's money is on the hook -- not taxpayers'. I think that makes it a lot different.

Except that the anti-government spending types tend to forget that efforts like this one make extensive use of technology that came out of government sponsored research and development.

Like hybrid rocket engines, and the re-entry technology that SS2 will use.

[yg1968]

Another update on the feathered flights:
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=space&id=news/asd/2011/06/10/06.xml&headline=Scaled Tests Nose Strakes On SpaceShipTwo

[Diagoras]

The schedule delays do remind me of certain government programs, but SS2 is unlike those in that only Branson's money is on the hook -- not taxpayers'. I think that makes it a lot different.

Except that the anti-government spending types tend to forget that efforts like this one make extensive use of technology that came out of government sponsored research and development.

Are you talking about anarcho-capitalists here, or left-wing anarchists (ie. anti-government spending)? And do they really hang out on space forums that much?

Or are you talking about Republicans (ie. anti-government spending)?