LIVE: STS-124 Flight Day 14 - Deorbit preparation

[stockman]

Ground asking about rate of speed and direction of object.


Best guess - direction pitch 170, right yaw 175 at about 1 foot per second - estimate 25 to 50 feet from tail when observed.

[el_nino]

anyone want to take any bets on how long it is before the media picks up on this and the "Discovery is doomed" articles start appearing?

[marshallsplace]

anyone want to take any bets on how long it is before the media picks up on this and the "Discovery is doomed" articles start appearing?

You're not speculating about the speculation are you? 

[JimO]

Keep in mind that the RCC fragment on Columbia drifted away on FD2 and was NOT observed-- thus preventing closer looks and possible countermeasures.

Pieces are seen from time to time -- there was a chip of a thermal tile photographed on STS-61, let me see if I can locate a blow-up of it -- that was no problem.

The aft edge of the vertical stabilizer is not a severe thermal environment but I'll bet they'll want to think long and heard about this.


Even during Apollo, there was a major effort to keep an eye out for 'stuff' coming loose from the exterior of the spacecraft and wondering what the origins might be -- related to vehicle status and capability changes.

[JimO]

Anybody have the Orbiter attitude at the time of the object's motion observation, so we can convert the Orbiter-centered motion into orbital direction -- posigrade, retrograde, out-of-plane, whatever?

[Felix]

[maxx]

Anybody have the Orbiter attitude at the time of the object's motion observation, so we can convert the Orbiter-centered motion into orbital direction -- posigrade, retrograde, out-of-plane, whatever?

Looking at the earth movement, it seems retrograde...

[mkirk]

Keep in mind that the RCC fragment on Columbia drifted away on FD2 and was NOT observed-- thus preventing closer looks and possible countermeasures.


The aft edge of the vertical stabilizer is not a severe thermal environment but I'll bet they'll want to think long and heard about this.

Just to add to that; the team - aside from assessing the thermal impacts and the exact origin of the debris - will want to ensure there is no potential for the rudder/speedbrake to get hung up during entry if additional pieces come loose.  The rudder/speedbrake is a critical part of the flight control system during entry.  Ideally you want it to have full movement and for it to be symmetric (i.e. both the left and right panels capable of full move ment).

The fact that FCS checkout showed no anomalies within the flight controls is good news.

Mark Kirkman

[Moonbase_Alphan]

tough to say, although orbiter was tail forward at the time of the jet firings

[rsnellenberger]

anyone want to take any bets on how long it is before the media picks up on this and the "Discovery is doomed" articles start appearing?

Fox News just talked about it, but without much panic -- tone was "something's drifted away and they're looking into it..."

[Chris Bergin]

Strong belief this is ice, NOT TPS etc. (Is what I'm getting from the people I've asked).

[rsnellenberger]

Is this the first time the rudder/brake or other control surfaces have been moved during the flight, or are they used during ascent?

[Ronsmytheiii]

Here is the tail from the RPM on flight day 3:

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-124/hires/iss017e008669.jpg

[catdlr]

Here is the tail from the RPM on flight day 3:

Thanks Ronsmytheiii for the digging out this. Closer inspection of the rudder section appears like filler substance (thermal installation) between the rudder sections, that may be the same item seen sticking out today.  Any photos from a previous RPM of the same angle so we can compare if that substance was on a previous flight?

[Firehawk153]

Is this the first time the rudder/brake or other control surfaces have been moved during the flight, or are they used during ascent?

I believe this is the first time...During the ascent the stack's directional and roll control is provided by the SRB nozzles and then gimbaling the SSME nozzles after SRB sep.  Given the mass of stack during the ascent, the density of the air and the speed of the vehicle, I would suspect that if they moved the control surfaces they would be ripped out like paper.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Ronsmytheiii]

Here is the tail from the RPM on flight day 3:

Thanks Ronsmytheiii for the digging out this. Closer inspection of the rudder section appears like filler substance (thermal installation) between the rudder sections, that may be the same item seen sticking out today.  Any photos from a previous RPM of the same angle so we can compare if that substance was on a previous flight?

From STS-123:

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-123/hires/iss016e032429.jpg

[mkirk]

Miles is on CNN giving a brief overview of the issue and I think he has the right tone.  No end of the world stuff, rather just the facts and what are the concerns and impacts.

Mark Kirkman

[Jim]

Is this the first time the rudder/brake or other control surfaces have been moved during the flight, or are they used during ascent?

I believe this is the first time...During the ascent the stack's directional and roll control is provided by the SRB nozzles and then gimbaling the SSME nozzles after SRB sep.  Given the mass of stack during the ascent, the density of the air and the speed of the vehicle, I would suspect that if they moved the control surfaces they would be ripped out like paper.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

incorrect

They move during ascent for wing load relief.   

[catdlr]

Excellent Ronsmytheiii.

The thermal insulation is apparent on the RPM photo on 123. If you notice that the insulation protrudes slightly outward in the same direction of the video-cap photo thatMarshalsplace posted in the page previous on this thread.  The amount of the protuberance seems to be the same.    Let's see what the experts come up with.

[psloss]

I believe this is the first time...During the ascent the stack's directional and roll control is provided by the SRB nozzles and then gimbaling the SSME nozzles after SRB sep.  Given the mass of stack during the ascent, the density of the air and the speed of the vehicle, I would suspect that if they moved the control surfaces they would be ripped out like paper.

The elevons are moved during the early part of ascent; excerpt from:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/reference/shutref/events/1stage/

During the first 90 seconds of flight, the flight control system provides load relief by making adjustments to reduce vehicle loads at the expense of maintaining a precise trajectory profile. A special schedule of elevon position with respect to velocity is followed to protect the wings from excessive loads and to hold the body flap and rudder/speed brake in place. The surface position indicator displays the position of the aerosurfaces.