LIVE: STS-124 Flight Day 14 - Deorbit preparation

[cb6785]

Flight Day 14 coverage of STS-124:

Planned Flight Day 14 activities:

(All times are eastern)

- Cabin stowage (6:07am)
- Flight Control System checkout (6:37am)
- Reaction Control System hot‐fire test (7:74am)
- Crew deorbit briefing (10:22am)
- Reisman’s recumbent seat set up (1:57pm)
- Ku‐band antenna stowage (3:02pm)

Please note, this is interactive, but all posts need to be on topic. If you post images, no more than two per post.

[Moonbase_Alphan]

execute package for FD14 now available

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/246939main_fd14_exec_pkg.pdf

[cb6785]

Wakeup song was “Baby, Won’t You Please Come Home” performed by Louis Prima and Keely Smith and was played for Garrett.

[Moonbase_Alphan]

first (orbit 217) and second (orbit 218) opportunity ground tracks available

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/shuttlemissions/sts124/news/landing.html

[maxx]

Someone has a updated weather bulletin for tomorrow's landing opportunities?

It looks like there is some clouds and showers over Florida right now and a large system over the Gulf of Mexico, AFAICT from the weather web cam.

[chksix]

FCS checkout complete
APU 1 used for the test and all looked good

[cb6785]

Someone has a updated weather bulletin for tomorrow's landing opportunities?

It looks like there is some clouds and showers over Florida right now and a large system over the Gulf of Mexico, AFAICT from the weather web cam.

Statement from the NWS:

Tonight: Partly cloudy, with a low around 70. East wind around 5 mph becoming calm.

Saturday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 86. Calm wind becoming east between 5 and 10 mph.

Saturday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 70. East southeast wind around 5 mph becoming calm.


Look pretty good so far...

[maxx]

Someone has a updated weather bulletin for tomorrow's landing opportunities?

Statement from the NWS:
Tonight: Partly cloudy, with a low around 70. East wind around 5 mph becoming calm.
Saturday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 86. Calm wind becoming east between 5 and 10 mph.
Saturday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 70. East southeast wind around 5 mph becoming calm.
Look pretty good so far...

Thanks!

Nose wheel checkout is looking good.

[marshallsplace]

FCS checkout complete

Flight control surface checkout - not system complete! (Acronyms huh  )

[Moonbase_Alphan]

RCS hot fire underway

[stockman]

Shuttle just reported to ground that an object estimated to be about a foot in length seen floating away. Video apparently taken and will be downloaded shortly.

[maxx]

Looks like a shiny rectangular shaped object...
 

[stockman]

fast video of the object - I managed to get one screen capture. Possibly Ice?

[geminy007]

fast video of the object - I managed to get one screen capture. Possibly Ice?

Possibly yes, according to PAO!
Another video coming up!

[geminy007]

Photos available for MCC-H for download. Object floated over starboard wing.

[stockman]

Now seem to be focusing in on this area - port side rudder - talking about something possibly sticking out? It is just visible along the edge against the darkness of space.

[marshallsplace]

Slight protrusion mentioned - half way up.

[marshallsplace]

Discovery asking MCC-H to use the arm for closer inspection.


MCC-H replies with a hold on that until they've had more time.

[maxx]

the crew just proposed to use the RMS to take a closer look...

[geminy007]

Discovery asking MCC-H to use the arm for closer inspection.

which is, at this point, not required. Further images will be downloaded during next KU-Pass in about 30 min from now.

[stockman]

Ground asking about rate of speed and direction of object.


Best guess - direction pitch 170, right yaw 175 at about 1 foot per second - estimate 25 to 50 feet from tail when observed.

[el_nino]

anyone want to take any bets on how long it is before the media picks up on this and the "Discovery is doomed" articles start appearing?

[marshallsplace]

anyone want to take any bets on how long it is before the media picks up on this and the "Discovery is doomed" articles start appearing?

You're not speculating about the speculation are you? 

[JimO]

Keep in mind that the RCC fragment on Columbia drifted away on FD2 and was NOT observed-- thus preventing closer looks and possible countermeasures.

Pieces are seen from time to time -- there was a chip of a thermal tile photographed on STS-61, let me see if I can locate a blow-up of it -- that was no problem.

The aft edge of the vertical stabilizer is not a severe thermal environment but I'll bet they'll want to think long and heard about this.


Even during Apollo, there was a major effort to keep an eye out for 'stuff' coming loose from the exterior of the spacecraft and wondering what the origins might be -- related to vehicle status and capability changes.

[JimO]

Anybody have the Orbiter attitude at the time of the object's motion observation, so we can convert the Orbiter-centered motion into orbital direction -- posigrade, retrograde, out-of-plane, whatever?

[Felix]

[maxx]

Anybody have the Orbiter attitude at the time of the object's motion observation, so we can convert the Orbiter-centered motion into orbital direction -- posigrade, retrograde, out-of-plane, whatever?

Looking at the earth movement, it seems retrograde...

[mkirk]

Keep in mind that the RCC fragment on Columbia drifted away on FD2 and was NOT observed-- thus preventing closer looks and possible countermeasures.


The aft edge of the vertical stabilizer is not a severe thermal environment but I'll bet they'll want to think long and heard about this.

Just to add to that; the team - aside from assessing the thermal impacts and the exact origin of the debris - will want to ensure there is no potential for the rudder/speedbrake to get hung up during entry if additional pieces come loose.  The rudder/speedbrake is a critical part of the flight control system during entry.  Ideally you want it to have full movement and for it to be symmetric (i.e. both the left and right panels capable of full move ment).

The fact that FCS checkout showed no anomalies within the flight controls is good news.

Mark Kirkman

[Moonbase_Alphan]

tough to say, although orbiter was tail forward at the time of the jet firings

[rsnellenberger]

anyone want to take any bets on how long it is before the media picks up on this and the "Discovery is doomed" articles start appearing?

Fox News just talked about it, but without much panic -- tone was "something's drifted away and they're looking into it..."

[Chris Bergin]

Strong belief this is ice, NOT TPS etc. (Is what I'm getting from the people I've asked).

[rsnellenberger]

Is this the first time the rudder/brake or other control surfaces have been moved during the flight, or are they used during ascent?

[Ronsmytheiii]

Here is the tail from the RPM on flight day 3:

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-124/hires/iss017e008669.jpg

[catdlr]

Here is the tail from the RPM on flight day 3:

Thanks Ronsmytheiii for the digging out this. Closer inspection of the rudder section appears like filler substance (thermal installation) between the rudder sections, that may be the same item seen sticking out today.  Any photos from a previous RPM of the same angle so we can compare if that substance was on a previous flight?

[Firehawk153]

Is this the first time the rudder/brake or other control surfaces have been moved during the flight, or are they used during ascent?

I believe this is the first time...During the ascent the stack's directional and roll control is provided by the SRB nozzles and then gimbaling the SSME nozzles after SRB sep.  Given the mass of stack during the ascent, the density of the air and the speed of the vehicle, I would suspect that if they moved the control surfaces they would be ripped out like paper.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Ronsmytheiii]

Here is the tail from the RPM on flight day 3:

Thanks Ronsmytheiii for the digging out this. Closer inspection of the rudder section appears like filler substance (thermal installation) between the rudder sections, that may be the same item seen sticking out today.  Any photos from a previous RPM of the same angle so we can compare if that substance was on a previous flight?

From STS-123:

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-123/hires/iss016e032429.jpg

[mkirk]

Miles is on CNN giving a brief overview of the issue and I think he has the right tone.  No end of the world stuff, rather just the facts and what are the concerns and impacts.

Mark Kirkman

[Jim]

Is this the first time the rudder/brake or other control surfaces have been moved during the flight, or are they used during ascent?

I believe this is the first time...During the ascent the stack's directional and roll control is provided by the SRB nozzles and then gimbaling the SSME nozzles after SRB sep.  Given the mass of stack during the ascent, the density of the air and the speed of the vehicle, I would suspect that if they moved the control surfaces they would be ripped out like paper.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

incorrect

They move during ascent for wing load relief.   

[catdlr]

Excellent Ronsmytheiii.

The thermal insulation is apparent on the RPM photo on 123. If you notice that the insulation protrudes slightly outward in the same direction of the video-cap photo thatMarshalsplace posted in the page previous on this thread.  The amount of the protuberance seems to be the same.    Let's see what the experts come up with.

[psloss]

I believe this is the first time...During the ascent the stack's directional and roll control is provided by the SRB nozzles and then gimbaling the SSME nozzles after SRB sep.  Given the mass of stack during the ascent, the density of the air and the speed of the vehicle, I would suspect that if they moved the control surfaces they would be ripped out like paper.

The elevons are moved during the early part of ascent; excerpt from:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/reference/shutref/events/1stage/

During the first 90 seconds of flight, the flight control system provides load relief by making adjustments to reduce vehicle loads at the expense of maintaining a precise trajectory profile. A special schedule of elevon position with respect to velocity is followed to protect the wings from excessive loads and to hold the body flap and rudder/speed brake in place. The surface position indicator displays the position of the aerosurfaces.

[CessnaDriver]

How quickly would a chunk of ice that size sublimate to gas?
If it is fast, couldn't ground radar observe this process?

[Orbiter]

From what I'm hearing, its not Ice. Its part of the speed brakes, from what i am hearing on NASA TV.

[collectSPACE]

Crew photography of the bump and debris (see here for enlargements):

[juleshow]

From what I'm hearing, its not Ice. Its part of the speed brakes, from what i am hearing on NASA TV.

I think you're referring to the "protrusion" off the side of the vertical stabilizer, and not the "ice"/object liberated this AM after the RCS hot fire test.

They are discussing both on NASA-TV.

[Chris Bergin]

From what I'm hearing, its not Ice. Its part of the speed brakes, from what i am hearing on NASA TV.

I think you're referring to the "protrusion" off the side of the vertical stabilizer, and not the "ice"/object liberated this AM after the RCS hot fire test.

Yep, two separate items. Look at Robert's images (nice, by the way!). The bump is on the tail. The debris was picked up behind the orbiter.

[Moonbase_Alphan]

here's the clearest image I've seen after looking through all the crew photos. severely cropped down to show just the object.

[Ford Mustang]

here's the clearest image I've seen after looking through all the crew photos. severely cropped down to show just the object.

Very good image.  Thanks for it!

[Orbiter]

From what I'm hearing, its not Ice. Its part of the speed brakes, from what i am hearing on NASA TV.

I think you're referring to the "protrusion" off the side of the vertical stabilizer, and not the "ice"/object liberated this AM after the RCS hot fire test.

Yep, two separate items. Look at Robert's images (nice, by the way!). The bump is on the tail. The debris was picked up behind the orbiter.

  I need my coffee, anyways, I don't see how these can be a problem for landing.

[maxx]

on the flying object,
MCC: looks like a clip from inside the speed brake - analysis continue

[Ford Mustang]

Video will be replayed at the top of the hour.  I'll record it and upload to this thread.

[Chris Bergin]

So it's down to one of two things. A thermal clip (or seal) from the RSB (no concern for re-entry), or Ice. Either ways, not a concern for re-entry on that item.

[Ford Mustang]

Three thermal clips behind the speed brake.  Not a critical item for re-entry.  -- PAO

[Ford Mustang]

Perfect performance on the FCS/RCS tests.

[Ford Mustang]

Here's the very short debris video:

[Ford Mustang]

And another image of the RSB protrusion:

[yweleung]

Here's the very short debris video:

thanks a ton Ford Mustang

it does look like some metal object from the way it reflects sunlight, no?

[Ford Mustang]

Here's the very short debris video:

thanks a ton Ford Mustang

it does look like some metal object from the way it reflects sunlight, no?

It does, yes, but that could also be ice.  Imagery analysis teams are evaluating it, though.

[DMeader]

As it tumbles in the right orientation, it seems to have two very flat opposite sides. Ice would probably be more uneven, no?

[Squid.erau]

I noticed the PDRS console was powered down earlier, but it is now up with the PDRS officer there.  Maybe just someone getting ready, in case the need to take a look at the RSB?

[Ford Mustang]

"We're confident that it won't be an impact to re-entry.  First of all, the bump you saw on the RSB is nominal, pre-flight imagery is the same, no issue.  The other issue that floated away is the Trailing Edge Split-Line Barrier.  The pictures you took were great.  No concern to re-entry.  The TESLB is for ascent heating only, not a factor for re-entry.  MMT going to meet here in the next few hours.  NO arm ops required, still pressing on for tomorrow morning" -- CAPCOM

"Weather looks good for the first opportunity tomorrow, light winds, high visibility." -- CAPCOM

[mkirk]

Let me just add something here:

Contrary to what PAO implied; and a couple of Media outlets have said in there reporting, the Speedbrake is not just used after touchdown to slow the orbiter.  It actually serves as a very important trim device during Entry and also helps keep the other flight controls (elevons/body flap) from becoming saturated.  It is also used to control energy when the orbiter is subsonic.

Mark Kirkman

[Chris Bergin]

Bit of excitement for this mission, and it's not an issue, so all's good.

[Firehawk153]

Is this the first time the rudder/brake or other control surfaces have been moved during the flight, or are they used during ascent?

I believe this is the first time...During the ascent the stack's directional and roll control is provided by the SRB nozzles and then gimbaling the SSME nozzles after SRB sep.  Given the mass of stack during the ascent, the density of the air and the speed of the vehicle, I would suspect that if they moved the control surfaces they would be ripped out like paper.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

incorrect

They move during ascent for wing load relief.   

   Whoops, there I go spreading incorrect info. Thank you gentlemen for replying.  I will check my sources before posting an assumption again.

[waf102]

...and it's not an issue, so all's good.

Not according to CNN. Lead story...

"NASA probes shiny object trailing shuttle"

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/06/13/space.shuttle.ap/index.html

Is it an alien? Is it a terrorist? Someone call Project Blue Book!

[jmjawors]

I don't find anything inaccurate or spectacular about that headline or article.  It was true.  Besides, it's no longer the lead story and the story link now reads "NASA says metal clip fell off shuttle," which is also true.

Quick work by the crew to get imagery down.  It's just awesome to see this issue addressed in such a speedy manner.

(edited because I'm still drinking my morning coffee and am using words incorrectly )

[Ford Mustang]

...and it's not an issue, so all's good.

Not according to CNN. Lead story...

"NASA probes shiny object trailing shuttle"

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/06/13/space.shuttle.ap/index.html

Is it an alien? Is it a terrorist? Someone call Project Blue Book!

If it's on here that's a non-issue, then it's a true non-issue. 

[Chris Bergin]

It's a none issue.

Ok, going to leave this one on site: http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5449

And write another article for landing day.

[Lawntonlookirs]

I watched the POA with CBS, but with no sound didn't hear it.  Did anyone else watch it?

[nathan.moeller]

Is this the first time the rudder/brake or other control surfaces have been moved during the flight, or are they used during ascent?

I believe this is the first time...During the ascent the stack's directional and roll control is provided by the SRB nozzles and then gimbaling the SSME nozzles after SRB sep.  Given the mass of stack during the ascent, the density of the air and the speed of the vehicle, I would suspect that if they moved the control surfaces they would be ripped out like paper.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

incorrect

They move during ascent for wing load relief.   

If you look closely at the SRB down-looking footage, you can see the FCS on the wings pitch up somewhere around the time of the 'go at throttle up' call.  But I don't believe the rudder/speedbrake is moved at all.

[nathan.moeller]

I must say I'm proud of CNN for not blowing this out of proportion.  They gave the facts without dramatizing them and the clip information was only half the already-short article.  They talked about what the crew did as far as delivering Kibo (even mentioned the name meaning and put it before the toilet parts ) and what they've been doing today.  Thanks for the video.  Very interesting to the little guy drifting off.

[Jose]

I must say I'm proud of CNN for not blowing this out of proportion...

NPR, on the other hand, made it sound like the End Of The World!!1!!!  I was afraid of what I was going to find when I checked this site this morning.

[stockman]

Good picture of some of the freon coolant hoses from the payload bay

[Chris Bergin]

Good picture of some of the freon coolant hoses from the payload bay

Nice spot. That's to do with this:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5436

"The crew will also be tasked with gaining more data on the orbiter's freon radiator hoses, which have been suffering from C-bend/Omega-bend issues over a number of previous flights.

'Crew procedure incorporated into Deorbit Prep checklist to capture imagery of all 4 Freon radiator hoses during payload bay door closure,' noted another FRR presentation. 'Per Shuttle Program, this is a highly desired requirement.'"

[nathan.moeller]

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but some very nice flyaround images are available on pages 44 and 45 of the STS-124 HSF gallery at www.spaceflight.nasa.gov

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-124/ndxpage44.html

[Ford Mustang]

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but some very nice flyaround images are available on pages 44 and 45 of the STS-124 HSF gallery at www.spaceflight.nasa.gov

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-124/ndxpage44.html

Some very awesome ones (not on that site) are uploaded on L2, as well.

[AnalogMan]

Mission Status Briefing delayed until 2:30pm CDT / 3:30pm EDT and showing only on Public channel (so not to clash with Phoenix briefing on the Media channel that starts at 2:00pm CDT / 3:00pm EDT)

[Chris Bergin]

Leroy emphasizing there's no concern with the debris. Not catching much as there's some problems with the NTV feed?

[Chris Bergin]

Something about Edwards from Robert (which would be interesting if it was about the temp runway).

Marcia Dunn's got an echo

[Stowbridge]

Something about Edwards from Robert (which would be interesting if it was about the temp runway).

Marcia Dunn's got an echo

Bad feed for me too. Harwood is asking about the new runway too, and seems a bit suprised about it. You've got an article on back in April.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5409

[ChrisC]

Satellite feed has been fine for me, must be internet feed problem.

[psloss]

Satellite feed has been fine for me, must be internet feed problem.

Saw some occasional disruptions to the cable TV relay here during the briefing.  FWIW.

[marshallsplace]

Leroy on good form as usual but he started to go into the possible options on re-docking Discovery and the ISS and it got me thinking. 

I think he was starting to say that a re-docking could occur only if the orbiter had enough resources to try for re-entry again.

Now, is this correct? It does make total sense in as much as if they fix or find no real problem after re-docking they could come back to earth without any further assistance.

[Felix]

[NavySpaceFan]

Leroy on good form as usual but he started to go into the possible options on re-docking Discovery and the ISS and it got me thinking. 

I think he was starting to say that a re-docking could occur only if the orbiter had enough resources to try for re-entry again.

Now, is this correct? It does make total sense in as much as if they fix or find no real problem after re-docking they could come back to earth without any further assistance.

I was thinking about this as well, and since a normal late inspection happens only a day after un-docking, the orbiter would have more propellant at that point, and would be closer to the station than it is now, or am I out to lunch.

[Chris Bergin]

Something about Edwards from Robert (which would be interesting if it was about the temp runway).

Marcia Dunn's got an echo

Bad feed for me too. Harwood is asking about the new runway too, and seems a bit suprised about it. You've got an article on back in April.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5409

But this incident with the RSB didn't happen back in April (I know the vehicle is fine, but there's a point of interest).

[collectSPACE]

Something about Edwards from Robert (which would be interesting if it was about the temp runway).

It was about the temp runway, though I don't know if it was your bad feed or my tongue tripping over itself that made the question  incomprehensible. Fortunately, Richard Jones understood and answered far more eloquently (I asked about how different the approach to the temp runway was, if at all, and how NASA went about certifying a new runway as safe to use, looking for quotes should, against all odds, Discovery end up at EAFB.)

[Chris Bergin]

Something about Edwards from Robert (which would be interesting if it was about the temp runway).

It was about the temp runway, though I don't know if it was your bad feed or my tongue tripping over itself that made the question  incomprehensible. Fortunately, Richard Jones understood and answered far more eloquently (I asked about how different the approach to the temp runway was, if at all, and how NASA went about certifying a new runway as safe to use, looking for quotes should, against all odds, Discovery end up at EAFB.)

Na, it was the feed! Wait till I get to ask a question with my accent, then the feed won't help any of you!

Good question then, because there's not been much (actually I don't think there's been any) official quotes in relation to the temp runway.....and there might not be another opportunity to ask it given how favored KSC is.

[psloss]

Post entry team shift / Post MMT briefing being replayed now.

[maxx]

Post MMT briefing replay just started... hope the feed will be fine this time

[Andrewwski]

Not to go off topic, but how's the weather looking rdale?

[nathan.moeller]

Not to go off topic, but how's the weather looking rdale?

From everything I've heard, very favorable.  RDale usually gets a separate thread for landing weather forecasts going the day/night before.

[Chris Bergin]

Not to go off topic, but how's the weather looking rdale?

I don't know if he'd thank me for this, and he'd be the first to get annoyed by a thread being taken off topic, but Rob's not around this weekend, as he's getting married

[Andrewwski]

Well, then I hate to go further off topic, but congratulations are in order!

[nathan.moeller]

Not to go off topic, but how's the weather looking rdale?

I don't know if he'd thank me for this, and he'd be the first to get annoyed by a thread being taken off topic, but Rob's not around this weekend, as he's getting married

Congrats to our resident meteorologist Well, let's just go with favorable for tomorrow then.

[drewsky208]

Has anyone seen the de-orbit and landing flight paths for the landing opportunity(s) yet?  I thought they are usually out by now.

[mceddiemac]

STS-124 Landing Ground Tracks:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/shuttlemissions/sts124/news/landing.html

From the NWS Spaceflight Meteorology Group, looking real good for the 1st attempt.  2nd attempt also looks good.

LANDING FORECAST FOR STS-124

EXPECTED LANDING DATE:      06/14/08
                 TIME:      1515Z
                 SITE:      KENNEDY SPACE CENTER...FL

U.S. LANDING SITES - EOM - SATURDAY 06/14/08

SHUTTLE LANDING FACILITY...KENNEDY SPACE CENTER FL
FIRST OPPORTUNITY
KSC  FEW035                        7              06004P06

SECOND OPPORTUNITY
KSC  SCT035                         7              09007P12
SLGT CHC SHRA WI 30 NM

[ChrisGebhardt]

Has anyone seen the de-orbit and landing flight paths for the landing opportunity(s) yet?  I thought they are usually out by now.

They came out yesterday.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/shuttlemissions/sts124/news/landing.html

[drewsky208]

Has anyone seen the de-orbit and landing flight paths for the landing opportunity(s) yet?  I thought they are usually out by now.

They came out yesterday.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/shuttlemissions/sts124/news/landing.html

Awesome thanks!  I must be utterly blind when I went looking for this.  I wanted to see if I'd hear the double bang of the approach when it goes over my house here in the Tampa area.  Looks like try #2 will if they get to that.