SpaceX Falcon I Launch III - Build-up Thread

[dmc6960]

Seems to me that if the rocket exploded, the camera would go dark at that time.

Why? It would only go dark if the "exposion" destroyed a critical part of the camera/power/transmitter link. During one of the X-15 ground tests the engine exploded with Crossfield in the cockpit, he calmly walked away from it.

Rockets are mostly fuel, and this one still had a lot in it.  If it were to truely explode, it would take everything with it, including the camera.  My point is that the whole rocket did not explode on it way down.  It may have when it impacted the water/reef.  Perhaps the turbopump or helium pressure tanks blew while in the air, but the rocket itself did not.  Watch the movie on SpaceX's website.  Here it is again.

http://www.spacex.com/F1-001-Launch-RocketCam2.wmv

[stockman]

Seems pretty clear to me that there was no explosion just a loss of thrust and a fall to the ocean. At least that is what my eyes see.

[Lampyridae]

I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that the hydrogen handling equipment at the cape costs more then the entire development budget for Falcon 1 and 9.

I have no idea what it costs but it's likely was very expensive because they reused the old Apollo equipment on the shuttle.

One of the simple cost analysis tools for aerospace puts the cost of developing a hydrolox engine at over 10x the cost for the same mass kerolox engine. If he went hydrolox he'd probably wind up bankrupt!

[toddbronco2]

I have it on good authority that SpaceX is eyeing a launch date between August 1 and 5th and that this window will be reflected on their webpage soon.  There was also some mention of a 9-engine cluster test fire soon.

[nobodyofconsequence]

Seems to me that if the rocket exploded, the camera would go dark at that time.

Why? It would only go dark if the "exposion" destroyed a critical part of the camera/power/transmitter link. During one of the X-15 ground tests the engine exploded with Crossfield in the cockpit, he calmly walked away from it.

Rockets are mostly fuel, and this one still had a lot in it.  If it were to truely explode, it would take everything with it, including the camera.  My point is that the whole rocket did not explode on it way down.  It may have when it impacted the water/reef.  Perhaps the turbopump or helium pressure tanks blew while in the air, but the rocket itself did not.  Watch the movie on SpaceX's website.  Here it is again.

http://www.spacex.com/F1-001-Launch-RocketCam2.wmv

Doesn't matter. Even if the fireball envelopes the camera/transmitter, the time it takes to absorb the heat to vaporize is a few frames worth.

[Patchouli]

Seems to me that if the rocket exploded, the camera would go dark at that time.

Why? It would only go dark if the "exposion" destroyed a critical part of the camera/power/transmitter link. During one of the X-15 ground tests the engine exploded with Crossfield in the cockpit, he calmly walked away from it.

Depends how it explodes, for instance if you dump a large amount of fuel in the air and it ignites most people on the ground will think it exploded... Regardless of the plane crash you will always have a witness that claims it was on fire and another that thought it exploded.

Witnesses claimed the titanic went down intact while others swore it broke in half. (History has shown it broke)

  I say that rocket was intact the whole way down as the explosion should have cut power to the camera and maybe destroyed the transmitter.

The flames I saw looked more like what would happen if the engine is cut off fuel rich or the turbo pump let go.
If the rocket exploded and the camera was still filming there should have been a lot more gyrations including a very violent lurch at the moment of the explosion.

Plus after seeing a lot of cameras subjected  to explosions on mythbusters you usually at least see a disruption of video from the shock jarring the shutters and antennas .

It did appear to be leaking fuel the way down though.

It looks almost like what happens in orbiter if you turn off the thrust on a rocket right after lift off.

[possum]

This rocket obviously did not explode.  The Challenger was not an explosion so this definitely wasn't an explosion.

Most people think Challenger exploded, but it did not.  It broke apart followed by a conflagration of the fuel mixture.  Technically it was a conflagration and not an explosion.  The difference is determined by the strength and speed of the pressure wave from the incident.  An explosion produces a loud "bang" where as a conflagration is more of a rumbling.  This may be a bit technical for the layman since it appeared to explode.  But technically it did not.  The orbiter itself broke apart due to aerodynamic forces and not the fireball.

[toddbronco2]

Is the whole debate over "explosion" really relevant?  I thought this was about the next mission that could be launching in just a week.  Isn't everybody more interested in THAT flight?

[Jamie Young]

Why are they being secretive? If it's literally just a few days from launch, you'd think they'd have it all over their site?

[toddbronco2]

I don't know.  I mean obviously 2 successive failures are bound to make them skittish, but they're on the verge of accomplishing something very impressive and I'm surprised that they aren't more eager to advertise that to the world. 

[edkyle99]

Why are they being secretive? If it's literally just a few days from launch, you'd think they'd have it all over their site?

I don't think they're being any more "secretive" than other launch companies.  ULA, for example, usually doesn't post mission information until shortly before launch.  I also doubt that we are only a "few days from launch". 

 - Ed Kyle

[toddbronco2]

Why are they being secretive? If it's literally just a few days from launch, you'd think they'd have it all over their site?

I don't think they're being any more "secretive" than other launch companies.  ULA, for example, usually doesn't post mission information until shortly before launch.  I also doubt that we are only a "few days from launch". 

 - Ed Kyle

Believe what you like, but I'm told the window opens in less than a week

[cb6785]

So a July 29th launch is off?

[nobodyofconsequence]

They will launch "soon".

They control PR / imagery for success.

Not in denial or ignorance. They know where the bear lies.

They will get it right this time.

[edkyle99]

Why are they being secretive? If it's literally just a few days from launch, you'd think they'd have it all over their site?

I don't think they're being any more "secretive" than other launch companies.  ULA, for example, usually doesn't post mission information until shortly before launch.  I also doubt that we are only a "few days from launch". 

 - Ed Kyle

Believe what you like, but I'm told the window opens in less than a week

MSDB says "No Earlier Than" July 29.  SpaceX said, a full month ago, that the "next launch window opens 29 July and runs through 6 August, followed by one from 29 August to 5 September".

When you look back at old SpaceX press releases, the company announced launch attempts at least four days, and usually about one week, before they occurred.

I would be surprised if a launch attempt happened on July 29, but in an infinite universe anything is not only possible, but certain.   

 - Ed Kyle

[antonioe]

in an infinite universe anything is not only possible, but certain.   

 - Ed Kyle

Furthermore, there is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

[cb6785]

MSDB says "No Earlier Than" July 29.  SpaceX said, a full month ago, that the "next launch window opens 29 July and runs through 6 August, followed by one from 29 August to 5 September".

Didn't they originaly want to launch flight 4 with RazakSat-1 and 3 CubeSats on August 31st?

[zaitcev]

When you look back at old SpaceX press releases, the company announced launch attempts at least four days, and usually about one week, before they occurred.

Ed, this speculation flies out of the window if the Murphy regime has re-examined the policies of unprecendented opennes which used to be in place in SpaceX and decided that secrecy is advantageous. Remember the video of the explosion of Zenit in 2006. It had close to 200,000 views on Youtube. Or, closer to home, all the armchair speculation about the fire at the first test flight of Falcon 1. It must be extremely tempting to try and get all that under some control. Elon was for the openness, but he is probably too busy to deal with PR himself. When was the last "Update"? Meanwhile, ton of things have happened.

-- Pete

[Jorge]

in an infinite universe anything is not only possible, but certain.   

 - Ed Kyle

Furthermore, there is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another theory which states this has already happened.

[edkyle99]

When you look back at old SpaceX press releases, the company announced launch attempts at least four days, and usually about one week, before they occurred.

Ed, this speculation flies out of the window if the Murphy regime has re-examined the policies of unprecendented opennes which used to be in place in SpaceX and decided that secrecy is advantageous. Remember the video of the explosion of Zenit in 2006. It had close to 200,000 views on Youtube. Or, closer to home, all the armchair speculation about the fire at the first test flight of Falcon 1. It must be extremely tempting to try and get all that under some control. Elon was for the openness, but he is probably too busy to deal with PR himself. When was the last "Update"? Meanwhile, ton of things have happened.

-- Pete

Yes, everyone saw the Sea Launch Zenit fireball on the Internet.  And guess what? Sea Launch Zenit has flown as many times this year as any commercial launcher, it has proven more reliable to date than competitor Proton M/Briz M, it has sold out next year's manifest, and it is taking orders for 2010.  Zenit itself is tied for most launches by any launch vehicle in the world so far this year, etc.

Secrecy doesn't pay.

 - Ed Kyle