Author Topic: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion  (Read 8186 times)

Online Chris Bergin

Bigelow presser:

Chris Reed, Bigelow Aerospace

http://www.bigelowaerospace.com

Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion

Innovative Attitude Control System Being Provided for Sundancer

LAS VEGAS, NV 05/15/08 – In a move to bring an innovative propulsion system to a revolutionary space habitat, Bigelow Aerospace, LLC has contracted Orion Propulsion, Inc. to supply the attitude control system for the forward end of Sundancer — the first commercial space habitat capable of supporting a human crew.

The contract, worth $4,826,000, was awarded in the first quarter of this year and the preliminary design review was completed this week. Multiple rounds of hot-fire testing and full-duration burn tests have already been conducted of the pioneering propulsion system that integrates with Sundancer’s life-support system.

“This program contains the right balance between analysis and iterative testing,” says Bigelow Aerospace Program Manager Eric Haakonstad. “Our environment is reminiscent of the creative atmosphere of the early space exploration era.”

The attitude control system (ACS) designed by Orion uses the hydrogen and oxygen bi-products from Sundancer’s environmental control and life support system (ECLSS) to generate the propellants for the thrusters. The forward ACS will be used for both attitude manipulation and momentum wheel de-saturation.

“I am very impressed that Bigelow Aerospace has chosen this innovative propulsion system solution utilizing the waste byproducts of the environmental control system for the world’s first commercial manned space destination,” says Orion Propulsion founder and CEO Tim Pickens. “Bigelow Aerospace and Orion Propulsion’s philosophy mesh well with our common desire to make space access affordable.”

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Offline NUAETIUS

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RE: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #1 on: 05/16/2008 02:24 am »
Does anyone have a layman's description on how this propulsion system works?  What is the fuel, and how does it compare to the Hydrozen used on most spacecraft?
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Offline Jim

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Re: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #2 on: 05/16/2008 02:51 am »
The fuel is hydrogen, just like on the shuttle.  The system takes H2 and O2 from the electrolysis of water from the ECLSS and burns it in small thrusters


Other spacecraft use hydrazine which is completely different

Offline Zapp

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Re: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #3 on: 05/16/2008 07:30 am »
Hmm ”just ad water” sure sounds nice but if they are going to use this for attitude control wont that mean they are going to need quite large solarpanels and allot of water for this. Or is attitude control less of a problem for Sundancer with Bigelows higher orbits compared to ISS??

Online kevin-rf

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Re: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #4 on: 05/16/2008 12:17 pm »
Quote
Zapp - 16/5/2008  3:30 AM

Hmm ”just ad water” sure sounds nice but if they are going to use this for attitude control wont that mean they are going to need quite large solarpanels and allot of water for this. Or is attitude control less of a problem for Sundancer with Bigelows higher orbits compared to ISS??

Depends, are they using it as an attitude control supplement to the attitude control provided by the reaction wheels or for station reboost? Will the station be in a gavity gradient stable configuration?

If it is in a gravity gradient stable configuration and uses the reaction wheels for attitude control while visiting spacecraft provide reboost then they don't need much.
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Offline nacnud

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Re: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #5 on: 05/16/2008 12:54 pm »
The initial Bigelow modules used magnets for stabilisation.

Offline Jim

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Re: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #6 on: 05/16/2008 01:20 pm »
Quote
Zapp - 16/5/2008  3:30 AM

Hmm ”just ad water” sure sounds nice but if they are going to use this for attitude control wont that mean they are going to need quite large solarpanels and allot of water for this. Or is attitude control less of a problem for Sundancer with Bigelows higher orbits compared to ISS??

It won't need big arrays.  The water comes from the crew

"The forward ACS will be used for both attitude manipulation and momentum wheel de-saturation. "  

No different from the ISS.  I

Offline iamlucky13

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Re: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #7 on: 05/16/2008 08:48 pm »
Sounds like they're a ways away from having Sundance ready to launch then.

I wonder how they ignite the fuel. The technical part of their website doesn't seem to be up yet. I always assumed Bigelow would go with a well-proven hypergolic or monopropellent design.

http://www.orionpropulsion.com/

Offline Norm Hartnett

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RE: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #8 on: 05/18/2008 12:46 am »
Now this is a very elegant solution to the fuel problem. The ISS vents hydrogen regularly and is planning to recycle urine for drinking water/food hydration. Not a solution that would work well in a hotel. Using waste products for attitude control is brilliant. I don’t remember seeing any mention of their environmental control and life support system partners so that portion may be in-house. An integrated ECLSS-RCS system would be valuable to almost any manned spacecraft.
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Offline Crispy

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Re: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #9 on: 05/18/2008 01:04 am »
surely you can't depend on life support waste porducts for propulsion. What about periods when the module is uninhabited?

Offline tnphysics

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Re: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #10 on: 05/18/2008 02:12 am »
The ECLSS can keep generating H2 and O2 even without a crew.

H2/O2 gives higher Isp than hypergols.

Offline jongoff

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Re: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #11 on: 05/20/2008 03:37 am »
iamlucky13
Quote
I wonder how they ignite the fuel. The technical part of their website doesn't seem to be up yet. I always assumed Bigelow would go with a well-proven hypergolic or monopropellent design.

Well, past O2/H2 RCS engines have mostly used spark ignition.  DC-X (or was it DC-XA) flew with such a system.  Knowing Orion's past history though, I wouldn't be surprised if they used a resonance igniter.  Basically you inject the hydrogen gas into a careful tuned tube that causes an oscillating shock wave that heats the H2 to the point that it will autoignite when you start the O2 flowing.  Orion did quite a bit of work on that in the past.  Lastly, there's what LM/ULA is doing for some of their Centaur upgrade IRAD work--catalytic igniters.  I did some work with those early on at MSS.  Others have made it work, and we were getting close to getting them to work reliably and repeatably, but since we didn't use hydrogen for anything else, in the end we went with just plain old spark ignition.

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Offline Lampyridae

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Re: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #12 on: 05/20/2008 06:16 am »
Quote
iamlucky13 - 17/5/2008  6:48 AM

Sounds like they're a ways away from having Sundance ready to launch then.

I wonder how they ignite the fuel. The technical part of their website doesn't seem to be up yet. I always assumed Bigelow would go with a well-proven hypergolic or monopropellent design.

http://www.orionpropulsion.com/

Well, target date is around 2012, so figuring for the inevitable slip-ups that puts them in orbit roundabout 2014. Plenty of time for development of a low-power RCS, although I wonder at their including it in their first manned hab. This is quite neat because it eliminates the problem of a hypergolic transfer in space. Heck, the RCS can be "refuelled" by bringing bottles of water for the crew making everything pretty much plug-and-play.

Offline Namechange User

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RE: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #13 on: 05/20/2008 03:16 pm »
Quote
Norm Hartnett - 17/5/2008  7:46 PM

Now this is a very elegant solution to the fuel problem. The ISS vents hydrogen regularly and is planning to recycle urine for drinking water/food hydration. Not a solution that would work well in a hotel. Using waste products for attitude control is brilliant. I don’t remember seeing any mention of their environmental control and life support system partners so that portion may be in-house. An integrated ECLSS-RCS system would be valuable to almost any manned spacecraft.

Water/waste recycling is going to happen more and more here on Earth too.  Makes good sense and there is a large plant in OC California that does this.  The water coming out is cleaner than average tap water.  

This concept is not exactly new but just a question of design and architecure and requirements.  I would hope and expect that they are well isolated so a failure in one does not take out the other.
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Offline Bill White

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Re: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #14 on: 05/20/2008 03:35 pm »
Quote
Crispy - 17/5/2008  8:04 PM

surely you can't depend on life support waste products for propulsion. What about periods when the module is uninhabited?

Extract moisture from the internal atmosphere AND / OR plumb the thing to allow emergency access to water stockpiles kept on-board for other uses.
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Offline Norm Hartnett

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RE: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #15 on: 05/20/2008 03:40 pm »
“…the attitude control system for the forward end of Sundancer”

Interesting phraseology, is there another ACS system planned for the aft end? From the graphics of the completed station with both BA330s and the connecting module one could assume that the aft end of the Sundancer would have a CBM or docking port of some sort. Further, the published plans to date seem to indicate that they plan to man the Sundancer prior to the additional modules flying which would lead to an assumption that there would be a docking port at the aft end.
They must be having a heck of a time selecting a port configuration. The Russian drogue and probe was a leading contender when the Soyuz was relatively cheap but now, with COTS-D as a possible contender would LIDS be considered? Perhaps the shuttle’s docking port? Something completely new? I suppose from a cost standpoint the lowest mass, currently in production, docking method would be the most desirable.
“You can’t take a traditional approach and expect anything but the traditional results, which has been broken budgets and not fielding any flight hardware.” Mike Gold - Apollo, STS, CxP; those that don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it: SLS.

Offline Bill White

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RE: Bigelow Aerospace Signs Deal with Orion Propulsion
« Reply #16 on: 05/20/2008 03:47 pm »
Quote
Norm Hartnett - 20/5/2008  10:40 AM

They must be having a heck of a time selecting a port configuration. The Russian drogue and probe was a leading contender when the Soyuz was relatively cheap but now, with COTS-D as a possible contender would LIDS be considered? Perhaps the shuttle’s docking port? Something completely new? I suppose from a cost standpoint the lowest mass, currently in production, docking method would be the most desirable.

Perhaps they should attach a module at the aft end with a Russian docking port on one side and LIDS on the other. And yes, this is a HUGE potential issue for Bigelow, IMHO as always.
EML architectures should be seen as ratchet opportunities

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