Author Topic: "Secret" LockMart launch vehicle prototype (Read 41846 times)

Namechange User · « **on:** 04/17/2008 05:02 pm »

Found this kind of interesting.....

http://www.krqe.com/global/story.asp?s=8173339

savuporo · « **Reply #1 on:** 04/17/2008 05:10 pm »

hard to get scale from these photos, but its got to be at least few meters on that launch rain

josh_simonson · « **Reply #2 on:** 04/17/2008 05:39 pm »

Looks rather like their CEV proposal and also something like a flyback booster. From the sound of the article it sounds more like it's the orbital vehicle though.

Tergenev · « **Reply #3 on:** 04/17/2008 06:20 pm »

Leonard David at LiveScience has his impressions, and a couple more details about the story at this link .

nacnud · « **Reply #4 on:** 04/17/2008 06:22 pm »

One vehicle of a bimese system maybe?

edkyle99 · « **Reply #5 on:** 04/17/2008 07:11 pm »

It looks a lot like the FALCON ARES concept shown in the following link, making it a test of a flyback booster concept.

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/apj06/sum06/doggrell.html

My guess is that this subscale, low-altitude test might be a precursor for higher, faster subscale tests. Then again, the fact that they are showing it on TV may mean that the testing is already finished.

- Ed Kyle

meiza · « **Reply #6 on:** 04/17/2008 07:36 pm »

Model rocket.

Nice find!

iamlucky13 · « **Reply #7 on:** 04/17/2008 07:39 pm »

Nice find Ed.

Your link isn't working for me, but astronautix has more info that pretty well matches what I was thinking:

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/ares.htm

It's almost certainly never intended to be more than suborbital, as pointy wings like that would be terrible from a heat flow standpoint. So it basically amounts an extension of the air launch architecture that Orbital Sciences uses with the Pegasus.

savuporo · « **Reply #8 on:** 04/17/2008 08:00 pm »

actually, this pic reminds me of the Cal Poly Space students Starbooster config, they flew a rather big model with two flyback RC controlled boosters some time ago, turned them around in 24 hours too.

Unfortunately the links to pics on their site have gone offline but Hobbyspace has news archives and Starbooster Inc site is online still as well.

PurduesUSAFguy · « **Reply #9 on:** 04/18/2008 11:51 pm »

I hope this points to the Air Force or DARPA getting serious about their 'Hybrid Booster' program. I really wish they would have picked a better name, hybrid to me means solid propellant + liquid oxidizer, not expendable second statge fly back first.

In any event hope this is a sign of things to come.

edkyle99 · « **Reply #10 on:** 04/23/2008 05:07 pm »

Rob Coppinger of Flight Global got a brief quote about this from a Lockheed Martin official. The headline is "Lockheed flight tests a scale-model flyback first-stage booster".

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/04/23/223201/lockheed-flight-tests-a-scale-model-flyback-first-stage.html

- Ed Kyle

hyper_snyper · « **Reply #11 on:** 04/23/2008 06:55 pm »

Quote

edkyle99 - 23/4/2008 1:07 PM

Rob Coppinger of Flight Global got a brief quote about this from a Lockheed Martin official. The headline is "Lockheed flight tests a scale-model flyback first-stage booster".

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/04/23/223201/lockheed-flight-tests-a-scale-model-flyback-first-stage.html

- Ed Kyle

From that article...

Quote

"I'm holding the [vehicle's] name back for competitive reasons. We're looking at multiple applications, civil, military, exploring lean operations and rapid response," says Space Systems' advanced programmes director, Al Simpson.

I guess this means it is FALCON ARES.

I've always wondered about things like this. Every now and again you hear someone working on something different or unexpected. Then you never hear from them again. Is this one of those things that will be looked at but will never materialize past prototype tests?

Namechange User · « **Reply #12 on:** 04/23/2008 07:13 pm »

Quote

hyper_snyper - 23/4/2008 1:55 PM

I've always wondered about things like this. Every now and again you hear someone working on something different or unexpected. Then you never hear from them again. Is this one of those things that will be looked at but will never materialize past prototype tests?

By all accounts this is coming from LockMarts own funding and not any other customer. They've obviously funded this to this point because they see a potential market to the military and others. Continuation of that funding depends on the success of the program and if as it matures their pedicted business case still holds.

edkyle99 · « **Reply #13 on:** 04/23/2008 08:41 pm »

Quote

OV-106 - 23/4/2008 2:13 PM

Quote
hyper_snyper - 23/4/2008 1:55 PM

I've always wondered about things like this. Every now and again you hear someone working on something different or unexpected. Then you never hear from them again. Is this one of those things that will be looked at but will never materialize past prototype tests?

By all accounts this is coming from LockMarts own funding and not any other customer. They've obviously funded this to this point because they see a potential market to the military and others. Continuation of that funding depends on the success of the program and if as it matures their pedicted business case still holds.

I suspect that the press coverage of the previously hush-hush launch activity had something very much to do with the fact that a local referendum on tax support for the New Mexico spaceport was approaching. It passed.

Lockheed Martin would have its own reasons to publicize its IR&D activity. Still, the fact that we've seen this thing tells me that it (at least in this specific variation) is probably already history. Either Lockheed Martin has finished the IR&D effort, or it has moved on to investigate other alternatives, etc.

- Ed Kyle

vt_hokie · « **Reply #14 on:** 04/23/2008 10:24 pm »

I'd love to work on stuff like that!

Namechange User · « **Reply #15 on:** 04/24/2008 06:02 pm »

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/080424-lockheed-spaceplane-test.html

Some new info as far as I know and it's on space.com (I was shocked also)

This flight was in December and they plan to continue test flights and have signed an MOU with Spaceport America. I also found it interesting, but space.com may have just got it wrong, that this appearantly falls under the Human Space Flight division in Denver.

aero313 · « **Reply #16 on:** 04/24/2008 06:14 pm »

Quote

...The winged craft soared skyward from a launch rail to an altitude of roughly 3,001 feet (915 meters)...
...The vehicle flown in December is 8 feet (2.4 meters) long with a wingspan of about 6 feet (1.8 meters)...
... the craft's propulsion system is not being revealed at this time...

...And Estes isn't talking either... :laugh:

edkyle99 · « **Reply #17 on:** 04/24/2008 07:09 pm »

Eight feet long with six foot wingspan. Roughly 1/5th scale model implies full size at only 40 feet long with a 30 foot wingspan.

The full-scale vehicle does not appear to be a "biggie". This vehicle would only be in the Falcon 1/Pegasus/Minotaur category, size-wise, making it consistent with the Rapid Response launch concept. By comparison, an Atlas V CCB is 106 feet long. An Atlas V strap on booster is 58 feet long.

Lockheed Martin performed a hybrid motor test in 2005 for the Air Force FALCON program.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/systems/falcon-lm.htm
Something like that could conceivably work in this application.

- Ed Kyle

Lampyridae · « **Reply #18 on:** 04/25/2008 01:42 am »

Given the low value of the motor as well as its robustness and low empty weight, I don't think flyback is really an option for a hybrid engine. Also, the size and layout of the wings indicates that it is fairly heavy in the tail, indicating a heavy engine. It may be sized for an airbreathing takeoff, but I don't see any fake intakes on the model. Given the fuel weight, the wingspan would have to be quite considerable and it would have quite a takeoff run.

The overall shape and fake TPS colouring also suggest it's designed for fairly high-speed reentry. I doubt whether a hybrid rocket would effectively stage for a 2-launch scenario. So, I reckon it's most likely a high-density liquid propulsion scheme... LOX and Kero, HTP and Kero or some such.

Being "operationally responsive" I guess the thing is designed to be more robust than conventional rockets (making reusability more attractive) and payload integration could be done easily and horizontally in a hangar, with a prepackaged upper stage (maybe this one is a hybrid motor). I haven't read anything more about this so I'm just guessing.

The canards would improve low-speed handling characteristics quite considerably, so it could land at many more airfields.

I can see this being used as a strap-on booster to improve performance, as well. Something like the proposed-but-no-money Baikal flyback booster on the Angara.

Namechange User · « **Reply #19 on:** 04/25/2008 01:57 am »

I believe when people were saying hybrid, the meant mixed reusuable/expenable stages.

Given the relative size of the operational vehicel, assuming the 1/5 scale is accurate, could mean it's part of a three stage vehicle. The first being something that carries it to altitude, releases it and then this stage returns.