Author Topic: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC  (Read 27668 times)

Offline kraisee

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10483
  • Liked: 415
  • Likes Given: 19
"The meek shall inherit the Earth -- the rest of us will go to the stars"
-Robert A. Heinlein

Offline mike robel

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2174
  • Merritt Island, FL
  • Liked: 230
  • Likes Given: 42
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #1 on: 04/01/2008 11:39 AM »
Well, so much for preserving all those jobs with Ares.

Offline mike robel

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2174
  • Merritt Island, FL
  • Liked: 230
  • Likes Given: 42
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #2 on: 04/01/2008 12:00 PM »

Offline Giovanni DS

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 199
    • ChibiOS/RT Project
  • Liked: 55
  • Likes Given: 192
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #3 on: 04/01/2008 12:03 PM »
After Apollo on steroids.

Offline wannamoonbase

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3084
  • Denver, CO
    • U.S. Metric Association
  • Liked: 747
  • Likes Given: 1206
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #4 on: 04/01/2008 12:09 PM »
Smells a bit like a play to increase funding for Orion and Ares to keep the work force numbers up.
Needing a copy of 'Tales of Suspense #39'

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #5 on: 04/01/2008 12:45 PM »
Important note I was told many moons ago...25 percent of the USA workforce at KSC is due for retirement in 2010 anyway.

As far as the numbers. A lot of BS is being thrown around with Ares and it's starting to get to people, especially with the "but it's good, cause we're going back to the moon."

Well, you kinda need Ares V for the moon, right? That vehicle might not get off the powerpoint, sorry to say.

Offline psloss

  • Veteran armchair spectator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17327
  • Liked: 1840
  • Likes Given: 1125
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #6 on: 04/01/2008 12:50 PM »
As this press release notes, the report will be released later today, along with a telecon:
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2008/mar/HQ_M08072_workforce_transistion.html

Offline Launch Fan

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1193
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #7 on: 04/01/2008 12:55 PM »
What's the biggest problem you see Chris?

Offline Analyst

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3337
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #8 on: 04/01/2008 12:59 PM »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 1/4/2008  2:45 PM

That vehicle might not get off the powerpoint, sorry to say.

LOL. Nice said.

Analyst

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #9 on: 04/01/2008 01:01 PM »
Quote
Launch Fan - 1/4/2008  1:55 PM

What's the biggest problem you see Chris?

The Shuttle to Ares/Orion gap. I don't think anything is going to change until Mr Griffin is replaced (this year: see either the elections - though could be sooner).

Offline Launch Fan

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1193
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #10 on: 04/01/2008 01:06 PM »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 1/4/2008  8:01 AM

Quote
Launch Fan - 1/4/2008  1:55 PM

What's the biggest problem you see Chris?

The Shuttle to Ares/Orion gap. I don't think anything is going to change until Mr Griffin is replaced (this year: see either the elections - though could be sooner).

Wow, I thought you would say Ares was the problem?

Offline psloss

  • Veteran armchair spectator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17327
  • Liked: 1840
  • Likes Given: 1125
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #11 on: 04/01/2008 01:07 PM »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 1/4/2008  9:01 AM

The Shuttle to Ares/Orion gap. I don't think anything is going to change until Mr Griffin is replaced (this year: see either the elections - though could be sooner).
Don't want to stray too far, but...the President does not tend to fire people (see Mr. Rumsfeld)...has that been discussed here?  If that's the case, what are the odds that Mr. Griffin resigns?  (If that's been discussed, can someone give me a link?  Thanks.)

Offline texas_space

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
  • Ex Terra, Scientia
  • Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex, USA
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #12 on: 04/01/2008 01:10 PM »
Some of the losses are bound to happen.  After all, there won't be as many people working on Orion as the orbiters now.  Chris is right to point out the retirement thing; a lot of the aerospace/defense industry is facing this problem.

That said, the ESAS implementation is beginning to look worse as time goes on.  I hope no delays occur to the Constellation program, but if they do there will be less hiring done in the nearer term.  Bigger operations (lunar flights) are even further to the right if they happen at all (ie Ares-V is built).
"We went to the moon nine times. Why fake it nine times, if we faked it?" - Charlie Duke

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #13 on: 04/01/2008 01:11 PM »
Quote
Launch Fan - 1/4/2008  2:06 PM

Quote
Chris Bergin - 1/4/2008  8:01 AM

Quote
Launch Fan - 1/4/2008  1:55 PM

What's the biggest problem you see Chris?

The Shuttle to Ares/Orion gap. I don't think anything is going to change until Mr Griffin is replaced (this year: see either the elections - though could be sooner).

Wow, I thought you would say Ares was the problem?

Might yet be, but that's not the biggest problem as the engineers will find a way to fly a washing machine to the ISS (homage to Apollo 13) if they were tasked with it. Vehicle design will always have problems - TO isn't the first and won't be the last (well it isn't anyway) - and there's not at an X-33 style showstopper yet.

The biggest problem is the gap, by miles.

Offline Lee Jay

  • Elite Veteran
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6683
  • Liked: 982
  • Likes Given: 140
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #14 on: 04/01/2008 01:16 PM »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 1/4/2008  7:11 AM
The biggest problem is the gap, by miles.

Dead right, IMHO.  Ares is a failure even if it goes perfectly on-time, on-budget, and every flight is a success.  5 year gap = failure.

Offline Launch Fan

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1193
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #15 on: 04/01/2008 01:25 PM »
I hear ya Chris.

Offline Namechange User

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7301
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #16 on: 04/01/2008 01:46 PM »
Before everyone jumps on the anti-Ares bandwagon too much, keep this in mind.  The "gap" was sanctioned by the Administration and was a part of the original VSE speech, which was later endorsed by Congress.  While, the gap was supposed to be 4 years, slips and delays happen and if the Administration and Congress cannot live up to their promises with funding, this was bound to happen anyway completely regardless of any technical development issues that need to be addressed.  

You are now seeing the effects of this because it's closer and becoming that much more of reality.  To even think that every job, every position would be preserved in the transition is ridiculous.  Many on here complain about the shuttle costs/risks.  If Orion/Ares was just as expensive and risky, there would be no money for anything else.  So, take this with a grain of salt.  It sucks, believe me I am more than qualified to say that, but this should not be a surprise to anyone since the writing has been on the wall for all to see for many years now.
Enjoying viewing the forum a little better now by filtering certain users.

Offline charlieb

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 617
  • King of Prussia, PA, USA
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 6
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #17 on: 04/01/2008 01:58 PM »
Amen OV-106..   AMEN.
Former Shuttle Mission Ops Eng  (In them days DF24 - INCO GROUP/COMMS, Now DS231-AVIONICS BRANCH).

Offline JIS

  • Elite Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1088
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #18 on: 04/01/2008 02:02 PM »
Can anybody explain me where all those money end up? Thousands of lost jobs means a lot of spare money every month. Unless they are going to pay hughe pensions and compensations.
It looks like they are redirecting workload from KSC.
'Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill' - Old Greek experience

Offline psloss

  • Veteran armchair spectator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17327
  • Liked: 1840
  • Likes Given: 1125
Re: 6,400 jobs to be lost at KSC
« Reply #19 on: 04/01/2008 02:13 PM »
Quote
JIS - 1/4/2008  10:02 AM

Can anybody explain me where all those money end up? Thousands of lost jobs means a lot of spare money every month. Unless they are going to pay hughe pensions and compensations.
It looks like they are redirecting workload from KSC.
I would presume that the document scheduled to be released in about three hours might address that, but you might also look at the NASA budget documentation:
http://www.nasa.gov/news/budget/

For example, looking at the FY 2009 budget request, it looks like almost the entire shuttle operations budget is "moved" to Exploration / Constellation systems:
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/210019main_NASA_FY09_Budget_Estimates.pdf

The proposal from FY 2010 to FY 2011 is for shuttle ops to go from $2984M to $96M.  Constellation systems goes from $3253M to $6480M.  However, the year over year change in the overall NASA budget is only 2.3%.

(And as noted, this is not a new proposal.)

There is a further breakdown past the high-level numbers, too.

Tags: