Author Topic: Critical Lunar Industrial Infrastructure  (Read 25401 times)

Offline sandrot

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 749
  • Motown
  • Liked: 5
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Critical Lunar Industrial Infrastructure
« Reply #100 on: 09/23/2008 01:32 PM »
NASA goes nuclear on the moon?

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2008/09/14/nasa-considers-nuclear-energy-to-power-a-lunar-outpost/

(I hate posting blogs links, but the article clearly references multiple sources)

It looks like deploying radiators for dissipating excess heat is going to be a challenge.
"Paper planes do fly much better than paper spacecrafts."

Offline adeclama

  • Member
  • Posts: 12
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Critical Lunar Industrial Infrastructure
« Reply #101 on: 09/29/2008 04:00 PM »



Dennis, does hope remain for large intact fragments of Ni-Fe asteroids? Or are you now persuaded that any incoming PGM bearing asteroids have all been shattered to tiny bits?

If there are reasonably intact Ni-Fe fragments with higher than normal PGM concentrations couldn't they be ANYWHERE on the Moon or is there reason to believe those would be concentrated at the poles?

Satellites with very good cameras could map the likely locations easily enough, but won't we need global lunar access to actually grab some samples and test for PGM concentrations?

= = =

On the topic of Ni-Fe, I recall reading about a NASA-SIBR study done in Kalamazoo Michigan (Western Michigan University) which seemed to conclude that carbonyl digestion (Mond Process) extracted metallic nickel rather easily from asteroidal fragments and since nickel vapor deposition is a well understood process that works at benign temperatures and pressures, intricate parts could be cast from pure nickel with only a modest consumption of energy.

Find a nickel rich fragment or a PGM rich somewhere on the Moon and it seems to me that is where the factories need to go. Wherever it may be. Or am I missing something?



The Mond Process is a good one but I tihnk it is better suited to processing asteroids themseilves instead of fragments on the moon.  Where would we get get the carbon and hydrogen required for the process.  Otherwise Mond processing can be adapted to many other metals, including iron and using lcvd pretty complex shapes can be made.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2008 04:02 PM by adeclama »

Offline adeclama

  • Member
  • Posts: 12
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Critical Lunar Industrial Infrastructure
« Reply #102 on: 09/29/2008 04:13 PM »
You also have eyelets and gromlets. Or some sort of snap and lock thing. Plenty of ways to put things together out there.

I think thermite would work in vacuum. Might not generate as much heat though.

Thermite will burn in vacuum because its ingredients bring their own oxygen to the reaction.  However, getting thermite to ignite will take some tinkering because it takes a considerable amount of heat to ignite it.  The best way i've seen is to use a burning magnesium strip.  Maybe an electrical starter of some kind.

Another option is taking advantage of what would otherwise be considered a nuisance - vacuum welding.

Offline A_M_Swallow

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8479
  • South coast of England
  • Liked: 349
  • Likes Given: 148
Re: Critical Lunar Industrial Infrastructure
« Reply #103 on: 09/29/2008 04:48 PM »
Putting a high current through a thin wire makes the wire very hot - this may work as a lighter.

Alternatively striking mixtures of magnesium + LOX and titanium + LOX causes then to catch fire.  The hit it with a hammer solution could work; a tiny hammer may be best.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930008606_1993008606.pdf

From 'Liquid Oxygen/Metal Gelled Monopropellants; Final Report November 1991; NASA CR187193' by John H Wickman.

"... Shock sensitivity tests by NASA white Sands eliminated titanium from the test matrix due to its extreme sensitivity to any impact.   A weight from a height of 6 inches consistently caused a reaction 100% of the time."

On safety grounds mixing the titanium with the gelled oxygen probably needs delaying until shortly before ignition.

Offline DMeader

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 954
  • Liked: 100
  • Likes Given: 47
Re: Critical Lunar Industrial Infrastructure
« Reply #104 on: 09/29/2008 07:08 PM »
Putting a high current through a thin wire makes the wire very hot - this may work as a lighter.

Sounds like what you have there is an exploding bridgewire detonator. Trying to set off a nuclear weapon??   ;)

Offline A_M_Swallow

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8479
  • South coast of England
  • Liked: 349
  • Likes Given: 148
Re: Critical Lunar Industrial Infrastructure
« Reply #105 on: 09/29/2008 07:31 PM »
Putting a high current through a thin wire makes the wire very hot - this may work as a lighter.

Sounds like what you have there is an exploding bridgewire detonator. Trying to set off a nuclear weapon??   ;)

This is space/Moon, so you are working in a vacuum.

Offline adeclama

  • Member
  • Posts: 12
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Critical Lunar Industrial Infrastructure
« Reply #106 on: 09/30/2008 07:13 PM »
Putting a high current through a thin wire makes the wire very hot - this may work as a lighter.

Sounds like what you have there is an exploding bridgewire detonator. Trying to set off a nuclear weapon??   ;)

Sounds more like an incadescent light bulb to me  :)

Offline A_M_Swallow

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8479
  • South coast of England
  • Liked: 349
  • Likes Given: 148
Re: Critical Lunar Industrial Infrastructure
« Reply #107 on: 10/01/2008 04:42 AM »
Putting a high current through a thin wire makes the wire very hot - this may work as a lighter.

Sounds like what you have there is an exploding bridgewire detonator. Trying to set off a nuclear weapon??   ;)

Sounds more like an incadescent light bulb to me  :)
Incandescent lights are a well proven technology.

The struck titanium would be the ignition system rather than the rocket fuel or welding material.  So only a tiny amount of titanium would be needed, possibly the head of the hammer.

Tags: