Author Topic: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion  (Read 169845 times)

Offline antonioe

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #340 on: 02/22/2009 02:00 AM »
The real decision criterion as to whether to proto-flight or to proto-qual really boils down to margins: when you have to squeeze the last ounce of performance, proto-qual is the only way to go; if you can afford the extra margin, proto-flight is by far less expensive (for quantities in the dozen or so, as we are talking here).
« Last Edit: 02/22/2009 02:06 AM by antonioe »
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Offline simpl simon

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #341 on: 02/22/2009 09:44 AM »
The real decision criterion as to whether to proto-flight or to proto-qual really boils down to margins: when you have to squeeze the last ounce of performance, proto-qual is the only way to go; if you can afford the extra margin, proto-flight is by far less expensive (for quantities in the dozen or so, as we are talking here).
Right, and the structural design heritage of your cargo module is well established (MPLM, ATV-ICC), so the proto-flight philosophy is certainly justified here.
OK, I give up - what's the significance of nine units, then?

Offline antonioe

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #342 on: 02/22/2009 12:31 PM »
Stand by for upcoming announcements (from NASA; our policy on COTS/CRS is to let NASA take the lead on any press releases).

I don't know how long it will take, though, with all that is happening (stimulus package, STS delay, CRS protest...)
« Last Edit: 02/22/2009 12:35 PM by antonioe »
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Offline yinzer

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #343 on: 02/22/2009 03:16 PM »
The real decision criterion as to whether to proto-flight or to proto-qual really boils down to margins: when you have to squeeze the last ounce of performance, proto-qual is the only way to go; if you can afford the extra margin, proto-flight is by far less expensive (for quantities in the dozen or so, as we are talking here).
Right, and the structural design heritage of your cargo module is well established (MPLM, ATV-ICC), so the proto-flight philosophy is certainly justified here.
OK, I give up - what's the significance of nine units, then?

The initial press releases talked about one demo plus eight flights - I thought the eight flights were options or IDIQ or something, but if Orbital is already buying nine modules, perhaps they have firmed up.
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Online edkyle99

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #344 on: 02/22/2009 03:40 PM »
OK, I give up - what's the significance of nine units, then?

My guess is it means that Orbital doesn't expect to lose its COTS contract to the Planetspace protest.

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Offline antonioe

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #345 on: 02/22/2009 04:51 PM »
FWIW: PlanetSpace protested the CRS award, not the COTS award (a bit late for that...)

Also, COTS is not a "contract" in the Federal Acquisition Regulations (FAR) framework: its an
"Agreement"
under Section 203(c)(5) of the Space Act of 1958 (NASA's "Constitution").  NASA and Orbital agree to co-fund a development. That is why we can't count the NASA payments as "revenue" in our financial reports (as would be the case with a contract).

The Orbital/NASA COTS agreement provides for the (one and only) demo flight to use an Unpressurized Cargo Module (UCM), for both cost and schedule reasons...

At this point I'd better shut up - I think I've gone out on a limb enough.  Sorry I brought up this subject, guys.  This will all become clear in a little while.
« Last Edit: 02/22/2009 05:00 PM by antonioe »
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Online edkyle99

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #346 on: 02/22/2009 05:44 PM »
FWIW: PlanetSpace protested the CRS award, not the COTS award (a bit late for that...)


Roger that.  I meant to refer to the latest (CRS) contract.  Too many acronyms to remember on the fly sometimes!

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Offline NUAETIUS

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #347 on: 03/01/2009 03:09 AM »
Tomorrow is March 1st. 

Original Orbital Sciences COTS Agreement
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/286477main_284646main_Orbital%20Amendment%201.pdf

Milestone 4: COTS System PDR
February 09 / 20 million

Orbital shall conduct a COTS system preliminary design Review (PDR) (including the demonstration mission configuration) in accordance with the PDR definition in Appendix 3.

Success Criteria:
-Successful completion of the PDR

Milestone 8. Complete Development of Intrumentation Program and Command List (IP&CL)
Febuary 09 / 10 million

The CVV Instrumentation Program and Command List (IP&CL) will be prepared and released for use shortly before the Demo Mission CDR. The mission database release is required to support development of the CVV Dynamic Spacecraft Simulator (DSS) and to commence integrated avionics hardware/software testing (Milestone 10). For the initial database release, the CVV ground commands and telemetry, as well as CVV stored command sequences (RTS and TMON) will be defined to the extent possible

Success Criteria:
Delivery of IP&CL to NASA

I can't find news anywhere of whether or not Orbital met these two milestones.  Where they pushed back, or where they not met?
« Last Edit: 03/01/2009 03:13 AM by NUAETIUS »
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Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #348 on: 04/23/2009 10:23 PM »
Good news everyone!

Quote
PlanetSpace, Inc. (NNJ08ZBG001R)
    National Aeronautics and Space Administration
    Quick View Quick view toggle     Outcome: Denied     Date Decided: April 22, 2009

    Filed Date:   January 14, 2009
    Due:   April 24, 2009
    Case Type:   Bid Protest
    GAO Attorney:     David A. Ashen
    File Number:     401016.1

So now we can hopefully get more updates, please..

http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/locate?searched=1&o=0&order_by=rel&old_keyword=planetspace&ft=&search_type=bid&add_topic=&remove_topic=&add_type=&remove_type=&add_fed_type=&remove_fed_type=&add_fed_desc=&remove_fed_desc=&add_year=&remove_type=&keyword=planetspace
And this is a good reminder that just because one of your fellow space enthusiasts occasionally voices doubts about the SpaceX schedule announcements or is cautious about believing SpaceX has licked a problem before actually seeing proof that's true, it doesn't mean they hate SpaceX.

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #349 on: 05/06/2009 02:40 AM »
Went to the tacsat-3 launch attempt today, there was a huge banner for Taurus II being suspended by a large crane.  The Orbital representative at the Visitors center informed me that it was only half scale, this rocket is going to be huge!
And this is a good reminder that just because one of your fellow space enthusiasts occasionally voices doubts about the SpaceX schedule announcements or is cautious about believing SpaceX has licked a problem before actually seeing proof that's true, it doesn't mean they hate SpaceX.

Offline Seer

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #350 on: 05/09/2009 04:46 AM »
Nine?
I'd say the ninth mission is a demonstrator for a potential crew capability.
What do I win?
« Last Edit: 05/09/2009 04:47 AM by Seer »

Offline bolun

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #351 on: 06/18/2009 05:18 PM »

The Orbital Sciences Corporation has engaged Thales Alenia Space to build a pressurised module for its forthcoming cargo vessel, Cygnus.

The agreement between Orbital and Thales signed at the Paris air show covers nine Cygnus ships in total.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8107877.stm


Offline simpl simon

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #352 on: 06/18/2009 05:50 PM »

The Orbital Sciences Corporation has engaged Thales Alenia Space to build a pressurised module for its forthcoming cargo vessel, Cygnus.

The agreement between Orbital and Thales signed at the Paris air show covers nine Cygnus ships in total.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8107877.stm

Yes, one for the COTS Demo mission and 8 for the CRS missions.
So Orbital has decided not to continue with their unpressurized cargo variant (or NASA has no need for it)?

Offline antonioe

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #353 on: 06/18/2009 08:39 PM »

So Orbital has decided not to continue with their unpressurized cargo variant (or NASA has no need for it)?


NASA requested that we change the demo to pressurized and we agreed; this caused a change in the demo date.  All the details are available (I am told - I have not checked personally) in the NASA COTS web site.
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Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #354 on: 06/19/2009 05:26 PM »
And this is a good reminder that just because one of your fellow space enthusiasts occasionally voices doubts about the SpaceX schedule announcements or is cautious about believing SpaceX has licked a problem before actually seeing proof that's true, it doesn't mean they hate SpaceX.

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #355 on: 06/19/2009 06:06 PM »
ok, dont ask me how but only got audio for the recording (tried to get video  ???) anyhow here it is:
And this is a good reminder that just because one of your fellow space enthusiasts occasionally voices doubts about the SpaceX schedule announcements or is cautious about believing SpaceX has licked a problem before actually seeing proof that's true, it doesn't mean they hate SpaceX.

Online ugordan

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #356 on: 06/19/2009 06:20 PM »
ok, dont ask me how but only got audio for the recording (tried to get video  ???) anyhow here it is:

I don't suppose you used VLC 0.9 when that happened, did you?

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #357 on: 06/19/2009 06:22 PM »
ok, dont ask me how but only got audio for the recording (tried to get video  ???) anyhow here it is:

I don't suppose you used VLC 0.9 when that happened, did you?


0.9.9
And this is a good reminder that just because one of your fellow space enthusiasts occasionally voices doubts about the SpaceX schedule announcements or is cautious about believing SpaceX has licked a problem before actually seeing proof that's true, it doesn't mean they hate SpaceX.

Online ugordan

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #358 on: 06/19/2009 06:27 PM »
ok, dont ask me how but only got audio for the recording (tried to get video  ???) anyhow here it is:

I don't suppose you used VLC 0.9 when that happened, did you?


0.9.9

Well, I'd say there's your problem. I had the same problem with the LRO launch yesterday, couldn't get video to show when stream save was enabled, with no saving enabled it worked fine. I ended up using an older version (0.8.6) to just dump the stream to the disk and then view the file in 0.9.9 after a few seconds on the fly. The old VLC player seemed to be unable to decode the video anymore - dumped garbage and crashed, perhaps due to a change in video format or something, even though for me it worked during Augustine presentations.  ???

Offline bolun

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Re: OSC COTS I Proposal Discussion
« Reply #359 on: 06/19/2009 07:14 PM »
ok, dont ask me how but only got audio for the recording (tried to get video  ???) anyhow here it is:

It´s not video but you have images.

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/361040main_20090617COTS_Status.pdf


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