Author Topic: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9  (Read 8467 times)

Offline hal

  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 18
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« on: 01/02/2008 10:34 AM »


http://www.sinodefence.com/strategic/mannedspace/shenzhou8-9-10.asp

I've never heard of this TianKong 1 before.  Is it really just the Shenzhou OM?

Offline William Graham

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4203
  • Liked: 207
  • Likes Given: 87
Re: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #1 on: 01/02/2008 12:28 PM »
Looks like it from the picture.

The really interesting bit is "the three launches could be carried out “within a month”." - at the bottom of the second paragraph. Shenzhou 8 & 9 were thought to be scheduled for 2010.

Offline mr.columbus

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 911
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #2 on: 01/02/2008 12:40 PM »
Quote
hal - 2/1/2008  6:34 AM



http://www.sinodefence.com/strategic/mannedspace/shenzhou8-9-10.asp

I've never heard of this TianKong 1 before.  Is it really just the Shenzhou OM?

TianKong cannot just be the Shenzhou OM, as it needs to passive docking ports for docking of Shenzhou 8 and 9 respectively. It might of course very well be that they use the OM as a basis for modification, but those will need to be extensive in any event, as it needs to include attitude and flight control as well as other systems currently located in the service module and crew module of Shenzhou.

Offline hal

  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 18
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #3 on: 01/02/2008 12:40 PM »
I think "within a month" means "within a month of each other", not "within a month from now!"

Offline meiza

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3068
  • Where Be Dragons
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 3
RE: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #4 on: 01/02/2008 12:46 PM »
Quote
mr.columbus - 2/1/2008  1:40 PM

Quote
hal - 2/1/2008  6:34 AM



http://www.sinodefence.com/strategic/mannedspace/shenzhou8-9-10.asp

I've never heard of this TianKong 1 before.  Is it really just the Shenzhou OM?

TianKong cannot just be the Shenzhou OM, as it needs to passive docking ports for docking of Shenzhou 8 and 9 respectively. It might of course very well be that they use the OM as a basis for modification, but those will need to be extensive in any event, as it needs to include attitude and flight control as well as other systems currently located in the service module and crew module of Shenzhou.

Didn't the old orbital modules already have free-flying capability: comms, attitude control etc? They left them in orbit and did remote sensing during previous Shenzhou missions IIRC.

Offline William Graham

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4203
  • Liked: 207
  • Likes Given: 87
RE: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #5 on: 01/02/2008 02:01 PM »
Quote
hal - 2/1/2008  1:40 PM

I think "within a month" means "within a month of each other", not "within a month from now!"

Yes, that's what I meant. Shenzhou 7 is going up this September/October. The others weren't due until 2010.

Offline mr.columbus

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 911
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #6 on: 01/02/2008 04:12 PM »
Quote
meiza - 2/1/2008  8:46 AM

Quote
mr.columbus - 2/1/2008  1:40 PM

Quote
hal - 2/1/2008  6:34 AM



http://www.sinodefence.com/strategic/mannedspace/shenzhou8-9-10.asp

I've never heard of this TianKong 1 before.  Is it really just the Shenzhou OM?

TianKong cannot just be the Shenzhou OM, as it needs to passive docking ports for docking of Shenzhou 8 and 9 respectively. It might of course very well be that they use the OM as a basis for modification, but those will need to be extensive in any event, as it needs to include attitude and flight control as well as other systems currently located in the service module and crew module of Shenzhou.

Didn't the old orbital modules already have free-flying capability: comms, attitude control etc? They left them in orbit and did remote sensing during previous Shenzhou missions IIRC.

Not the same as equiping them with 2 docking ports and docking systems.

Offline hal

  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 18
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #7 on: 01/02/2008 11:22 PM »
I don't think the illustration on the sinodefence site should be taken as being directly TianKong - it is a stock picture I've seen in lots of places.  But the pictures you normally see of what I thought would be the 'man-tended' station seems to only have 1 docking port.  Maybe they've changed their plans and TianKong will look different to any illustration released to date.

Offline Liss

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1033
  • Moscow, Russia
  • Liked: 196
  • Likes Given: 10
Re: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #8 on: 01/03/2008 12:51 PM »
I was not able to find a mention of Tiankong 1 (taking that kong = space) together with Liu Zhusheng in the Chinese part of Internet. Neither a meaningful mention of Tiankong 1 proper.
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline mr.columbus

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 911
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #9 on: 01/03/2008 08:59 PM »
Quote
hal - 2/1/2008  7:22 PM

I don't think the illustration on the sinodefence site should be taken as being directly TianKong - it is a stock picture I've seen in lots of places.  But the pictures you normally see of what I thought would be the 'man-tended' station seems to only have 1 docking port.  Maybe they've changed their plans and TianKong will look different to any illustration released to date.

One docking port would not make much sense, if they want to create their space-lab. They need the docking port and at least some space and instruments as well as supplies to work with - which of course requires a second Shenzhou (the unmanned Shenzhou-8).

Offline hal

  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 18
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #10 on: 01/03/2008 09:40 PM »
Attached is what I imagined the first space station would be.  There appears to be only 1 docking port

Offline miom70

  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 34
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #11 on: 01/04/2008 02:27 AM »
The correct spelling of space lab is Tian Gong(=space palace). Some interesting pics from China Air Show 2006...

Offline hal

  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 18
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #12 on: 01/04/2008 01:47 PM »
miom70 - thanks for the new pictures.  Still only looks like 1 docking port to me.

Unless the unmanned Shenzhou 8 is really some kind of multiple docking adapter?

Offline Liss

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1033
  • Moscow, Russia
  • Liked: 196
  • Likes Given: 10
RE: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #13 on: 01/04/2008 03:05 PM »
Quote
miom70 - 4/1/2008  6:27 AM

The correct spelling of space lab is Tian Gong(=space palace).

miom70, thank you.
A mention of the Tiangong 1 by Mao Yongjun from Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center may be found at http://news.xinhuanet.com/politics/2006-09/19/content_5110179_2.htm .
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Online Satori

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12618
  • Braga - Portugal
    • Em Órbita
  • Liked: 468
  • Likes Given: 317
RE: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #14 on: 01/04/2008 04:46 PM »
Quote
Liss - 4/1/2008  10:05 AM

Quote
miom70 - 4/1/2008  6:27 AM

The correct spelling of space lab is Tian Gong(=space palace).

miom70, thank you.
A mention of the Tiangong 1 by Mao Yongjun from Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center may be found at http://news.xinhuanet.com/politics/2006-09/19/content_5110179_2.htm .

Is this article available in english?

Offline hesidu

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 158
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #15 on: 01/04/2008 06:26 PM »
He said building of the space lab and space station will be within the next 20 years. And we can see that the "Tiangong 1" is the name of the furture space station, not the space lab. Also the name is not settled down, maybe a better name could get from the votes of the Chinese people in the furture.

Offline hesidu

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 158
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #16 on: 01/04/2008 06:37 PM »
Quote
hal - 4/1/2008  9:47 PM

miom70 - thanks for the new pictures.  Still only looks like 1 docking port to me.

Unless the unmanned Shenzhou 8 is really some kind of multiple docking adapter?
Those pictures demonstrated a space lab docking with a Shenzhou spaceship. It certaionly not Shenzhou 8. Shenzhou 8 will dock with Shenzhou 9. After that, space lab may be launched by CZ-5 rocket. And a shenzhou spaceship will send man to operate the space lab.

Offline mr.columbus

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 911
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #17 on: 01/04/2008 07:21 PM »
Quote
hesidu - 4/1/2008  2:37 PM

Quote
hal - 4/1/2008  9:47 PM

miom70 - thanks for the new pictures.  Still only looks like 1 docking port to me.

Unless the unmanned Shenzhou 8 is really some kind of multiple docking adapter?
Those pictures demonstrated a space lab docking with a Shenzhou spaceship. It certaionly not Shenzhou 8. Shenzhou 8 will dock with Shenzhou 9. After that, space lab may be launched by CZ-5 rocket. And a shenzhou spaceship will send man to operate the space lab.

Actually, from all I read until this day, I thought the Chinese plan has always been - right now a spacewalk with Shenzhou 7 and afterwards by 2010 demonstration of a docking maneuver. And it makes most sense to first dock an unmanned Shenzhou with something already in space - apparently it is planned now that that "something" shall be a "space adaptor." Still, in order to do some worthwhile manned spaceflight, it makes sense that after the unmanned Shenzhou 8 docks with the adaptor, the manned Shenzhou 9 does the same thing. The question remains, will the Chinese go for an adaptor with two docking ports and a tight launch schedule and dock both at the same time or will they first have the Shenzhou 8 mission and later on the Shenzhou 9 mission after shenzhou 8 is long deorbited.

Offline hesidu

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 158
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #18 on: 01/04/2008 07:47 PM »
Why they need a separated "space adaptor" to dock with Shenzhou 8 and Shenzhou 9? Why don't just put an "adaptor" on the top of the service capsule of Shenzhou 8 or Shenzhou 9. Are there any technical difficulties ?

Offline mr.columbus

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 911
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #19 on: 01/04/2008 08:17 PM »
Quote
hesidu - 4/1/2008  3:47 PM

Why they need a separated "space adaptor" to dock with Shenzhou 8 and Shenzhou 9? Why don't just put an "adaptor" on the top of the service capsule of Shenzhou 8 or Shenzhou 9. Are there any technical difficulties ?

You want to demonstrate docking first with no humans involved.

Offline hesidu

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 158
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Interesting snippet on Shenzhou 8/9
« Reply #20 on: 01/04/2008 10:02 PM »
I get you point now.
http://news.tsinghua.edu.cn/new/news.php?id=6419
It's an interview of the chief designer of China's manned space project -- Wangyongzhi.

He said, first a spaceship will be send up to the space, and leave the service capsule in the space. Then another spaceship will be send up to dock with the service capsule left. He mentioned that there are two options. First one, they can make a service capsule which can remain in space for half year. After docking with the second spaceship send up, the first service capsule will be abandoned. When the control capsule of the second spaceship separate, the service capsule will again leave in the space. So there will aways be a service capsule in the space to dock with the coming spaceship. This process can go on and on, until the demostration of docking is over. Second one, the service capsule of the first spaceship can remain in space for two years. Then it can dock with the coming spaceship again and again. So if they wants to do N time of docking, they just have to send up N+1 of spaceship.

He didn't mention there will be a separated "space adaptor". I think it's more likely that an "adaptor" will fix on the top of the first service capsule. So it can dock with coming unmaned- or manned- spaceship.

Tags: