LIVE: STS-120 Flight Day 13 - Transfers - Hatch Closure

[Chris Bergin]

Flight Day 13.

Mainly an off duty day, with final transfer ahead of FD14 undocking.

Hatch closure is later in the day than previously planned.

LDRI (Laser Dynamic Range Imager) on the OBSS Sensor Package survived - not sure about the rest of it (LCS etc) at this stage, but that's still a bonus.

[bodge]

Hatch Closure (FD13): 308/18:43 GMT
Undock (FD14): 309/09:43 GMT

Edit: These are starting times for those activities

[AntiKev]

Seems like it's going to be a pretty quiet day after yesterday's excitement.  The crews get some well-earned off-duty time.

[Chris Bergin]

[fburnell]

FD 13 execute package up now.   http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/195912main_fd13exec.pdf

[bodge]

Note the transfer message, page 30

[Chris Bergin]

bodge - 4/11/2007  7:46 AM

Note the transfer message, page 30

 :laugh:

[ichilton]

Hi,

How come hatches close tonight but the 1st landing attempt isn't until Wednesday?

I thought they normally close hatches on the evening, undock the next day and land the day after?

Thanks

Ian

[Chris Bergin]

ichilton - 4/11/2007  8:11 AM

Hi,

How come hatches close tonight but the 1st landing attempt isn't until Wednesday?

I thought they normally close hatches on the evening, undock the next day and land the day after?

Thanks

Ian

Lots to do yet Ian.

Undock, Flyaround (half or full depending on prop status).

Late Inspections. Checkover of imagery to ensure Discovery is safe to re-enter, before she's too far away from returning to the ISS.

More sep burns, then they need to do Flight Control System checkouts, RCS etc hotfires on the next day and so on.

[AntiKev]

Chris (or anyone else for that matter), any word on OBSS status?

Edit: Nevermind, just read the updated first post.

[Chris Bergin]

I wish I had recorded that, but Paolo's speaking about a printer problem, and one of the MCC guys threw his head into his hands over it. Classic moment.

[Chris Bergin]

Arrays tracking..

[bodge]

Printers were swapped between vehicles....if the swapped printer to ISS doesn't work on ISS, they'll swap back.

[Chris Bergin]

Looks like we've got a PAO event coming.

Sky News Italia involved.

[Chris Bergin]

Transfers continuing.

Something over the other loop about actions for Panel 12L?

[Chris Bergin]

The fastest speaking Italian I've ever heard is interviewing Paolo

Pambo also involved.

Sky News Italia.

[Chris Bergin]

Any Italians on site, want to do a bit of translating on key parts of what's been said?

[Iren]

Is that a MPLM or a Node 2 model?

[Chris Bergin]

Pambo:

"The spacewalk was incredible, because it was unplanned with complicated robotics."

"Every single person came together to perform this spacewalk".

[Chris Bergin]

Iren - 4/11/2007  10:10 AM

Is that a MPLM or Node 2 model?

It's Node 2, given they are in Node 2 and this mission was about Node 2

[kimmern123]

Node 2 model

EDIT: Shoot, Chris beat me to it

[Chris Bergin]

Q) Are you happy with the performance of Paolo?

Pambo: "Absolutely, I am more than happy. Paolo is very smart, very clever. He's very mechanically gifted, and he's worked very hard with the spacewalks.

"You should be very proud of him, you should have more astronauts like him."

[Iren]

Chris Bergin - 4/11/2007  6:11 AM

Iren - 4/11/2007  10:10 AM

Is that a MPLM or Node 2 model?

It's Node 2, given they are in Node 2 and this mission was about Node 2

Yeah, was pretty obvious but I couldnt see the model's CBMs so I wondered if they were talking about italian-built modules ie MPLMs

Anyways, I didnt knew they carried models like that...

[Chris Bergin]

Talking about food.

"We have food that is very much like camping food. When you are hungry it tastes wonderful. The Italian meal had very unusual Italian flavors. It was wonderful to be different and made me very eager to visit Italy."

[gideon320]

I'm Italian, but my English is not very good! I try to translate

Piero Messina ESA: ...
Nespoli: ISS is going to "improve" in next years adding new laboratories

[Chris Bergin]

And that concludes the event.

[jbk024]

Has anyone heard any information on prop status yet re a fly-around?  I'd sure love to see a photo set from a full one...

[gideon320]

A fly-around the ISS after space shuttle undocking?

[kimmern123]

gideon320 - 4/11/2007  11:41 AM

A fly-around the ISS after space shuttle undocking?

A fly-around is always performed after undoscking, propellants permitting. Depending on the propellants remaining the orbiter flies either a half fly-around or a full one. Like the undocking itself this is done by the pilot. On STS-118 however a flyaround was not performed due to the shortened flight duration.

[DaveS]

kimmern123 - 4/11/2007  12:10 PM

gideon320 - 4/11/2007  11:41 AM

A fly-around the ISS after space shuttle undocking?

A fly-around is always performed after undoscking, propellants permitting. Depending on the propellants remaining the orbiter flies either a half fly-around or a full one. Like the undocking itself this is done by the pilot. On STS-118 however a flyaround was not performed due to the shortened flight duration.

Might not be done on this flight due to constraints now that the SRMS have the OBSS grappled. I seem to remember this from STS-114.

[kimmern123]

Thanks, I didn't know that Amazing how much one can learn every day by reading this site.

[ItsyAndy]

I missed the PAO event to do some translation. I'll try to watch replays on Sky Italia and sum it up, or maybe we will have a replay on NTV with translation later.

[DaveS]

ItsyAndy - 4/11/2007  12:46 PM

I missed the PAO event to do some translation. I'll try to watch replays on Sky Italia and sum it up, or maybe we will have a replay on NTV with translation later.

ESA / ASI PAO event with english interpretation replay is scheduled for 13:30 UTC, in about 1 hour 1 minutes.

[DaveS]

Sounds like the OBSS have been give a clean bill of health and all of it's sensors are working.

[ckiki lwai]

DaveS - 4/11/2007  1:18 PM

Sounds like the OBSS have been give a clean bill of health and all of it's sensors are working.

Nice to hear that, now we can really call it a successful EVA

[otisbow]

I saw a nice pass over Little Rock at 6:03 this AM of the ISS.

[Chandonn]

ckiki lwai - 4/11/2007  7:22 AM

DaveS - 4/11/2007  1:18 PM

Sounds like the OBSS have been give a clean bill of health and all of it's sensors are working.

Nice to hear that, now we can really call it a successful EVA

I think it was pretty successful anyway.  Let's call it EVEN more successful!  

[Chris Bergin]

DaveS - 4/11/2007  12:18 PM

Sounds like the OBSS have been give a clean bill of health and all of it's sensors are working.

Wow, that's a turn up for the books. Either the OBSS people totally underestimated how it would perform, by way of a "don't blame us if it doesn't work after five hours unpowered" or they can expect a nice Christmas bonus

[Polecat]

How did they manage to save OBSS??!

[Chris Bergin]

Polecat - 4/11/2007  12:40 PM

How did they manage to save OBSS??!

Well they didn't expect it (see manager quotes on the latest article), but the last pre-P6 repair presentation (and as noted in the article) speaks of mitigation proceedures they took. Which included heating it right up before becoming unpowered, see screenshot from that presentation (on L2):

Certainly is great work if this is a working OBSS as suggested, as they expected it to last no longer than five hours.

[psloss]

Chris Bergin - 4/11/2007  7:34 AM

Wow, that's a turn up for the books. Either the OBSS people totally underestimated how it would perform, by way of a "don't blame us if it doesn't work after five hours unpowered" or they can expect a nice Christmas bonus

Could be a difference in the certs for the sensors and that extra margin is often built in that one would use operationally (i.e., 1.4 factor of safety for some systems).

I agree with Chandonn -- the EVA was successful yesterday; station assembly is the shuttle program's purpose now and the increased possibility of failing the sensors was "traded" for the broader programmatic goal of station assembly.  I think losing that wing would have been a large disruption to assembly.

[shuttlefan]

ckiki lwai - 4/11/2007  6:22 AM

DaveS - 4/11/2007  1:18 PM

Sounds like the OBSS have been give a clean bill of health and all of it's sensors are working.

Nice to hear that, now we can really call it a successful EVA

Plus a full inspection capability!!

[Gary]

Just curious - Not heard much about SSPTS on this flight but I assume it's helped ease the time constraints for undocking?

[GioFX]

i think so... it helped extending the mission for an extra day.

[jmjawors]

The Italian interview (w/English translation) just ended.  Whoever commented about the speed that that guy talks is right!  Sheesh!  Fast talker!

[DaveS]

Gary - 4/11/2007  2:42 PM

Just curious - Not heard much about SSPTS on this flight but I assume it's helped ease the time constraints for undocking?

Yes. But I think they're down to just one landing contigency day(Nov. now thanks to the mission extension. So if they can't land on Wednesday, they'll land somewhere on Thursday.

[Chandonn]

Gary - 4/11/2007  8:42 AM

Just curious - Not heard much about SSPTS on this flight but I assume it's helped ease the time constraints for undocking?

Yeah, I was a bit concerned that the station was providing power to the shuttle so the shuttle could stay an extra day.  And the shuttle was staying an extra day to fix the power problem on the station.
I was a bit concerned with margins as the P6 problem, plus both SARJ's being locked, was reducing the station power... AND the station was still supplying power to the shuttle!

[Andy_Small]

MSB at 10:30 CST

[Chris Bergin]

Gary - 4/11/2007  1:42 PM

Just curious - Not heard much about SSPTS on this flight but I assume it's helped ease the time constraints for undocking?

Written several references on this in my articles (Gary, you're a sinner!)

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5267

Meanwhile, Discovery continues to perform without issue, with her own debuting of the SSPTS (Station-to-Shuttle Power Transfer System) performing without issue. The system made its first flight with an orbiter during STS-118 on Endeavour.

Boeing's SSPTS provides electrical power to the orbiter main busses from the International Space Station (ISS), allowing the fuel cells to operate at lower power levels, thereby consuming less reactant from the PRSD (Power Reactant Storage and Distributation) storage tanks.

'For the second time in history, the ISS is transferring power to the orbiter to allow it to remain docked longer. As per plan, three (of four) OPCUs (Orbiter Power Converter Units, 1A, 1B, & 2A) are currently active, transmitting up to 6.45 kW of power to the Shuttle PTUs (Power Transfer Units),' added the...


http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5269

This won't be a problem for Discovery, with her SSPTS (Station-Shuttle Power Transfer System) working fine, allowing for over three days of margin for STS-120's mission duration. EGIL - cryo margins 1d19h (no SSPTS), 3d7h (SSPTS). Looking at adding extra day. Preliminarily looks like we could support.'

[STS-500Cmdr]

I've been meaning to ask this...what effect does the California fires have on an Edwards landing?..if fires are raging around the Edwards area, you wouldnt want Discovery flying through the smoke and wouldnt want a what..$4 Billion space shuttle dropping into the middle of it.  I guess those fires have been contained now but if the fires were going like they were a week or 2 ago---would that make White Sands a bigger player?

[Wisi]

DaveS - 4/11/2007  2:58 PM

Gary - 4/11/2007  2:42 PM

Just curious - Not heard much about SSPTS on this flight but I assume it's helped ease the time constraints for undocking?

Yes. But I think they're down to just one landing contigency day(Nov. now thanks to the mission extension. So if they can't land on Wednesday, they'll land somewhere on Thursday.

What's the weather outlook for Wednesday? How probable is a Landing anywhere else than KSC or Edwards?

[Chris Bergin]

Clay's got "more famous cities in Nebraska"! It's his last page of over 500 famous cities in the state.

Any Nebraska media picking up on this over his mission?

[lcs]

I think he's been up there too long.

[jcm]

Chris Bergin - 4/11/2007  2:49 AM

bodge - 4/11/2007  7:46 AM

Note the transfer message, page 30

 :laugh:

So I get item 900, what is item 901? I don't think we have the transfer list update file, even on L2?

[Bubbinski]

Regarding the fires and an Edwards landing: I haven't heard of any wildfires near Mohave, I HIGHLY doubt that would be an issue.  The wildfires were much closer to the coast, in the San Diego and Malibu areas, as well as some places north of L.A., I think.  Mohave/Edwards is well to the east of the fire zones, in the high desert.

[Chris Bergin]

jcm - 4/11/2007  3:46 PM

So I get item 900, what is item 901? I don't think we have the transfer list update file, even on L2?

Not sure, L2 STS-120 is literally bursting at the seams now, but I'll check the middeck layout presentation if there's a manifest associated with it. If not, request on the shopping list as we grabbed about 90 percent of everything (including the wild stuff) on the list.

[Lee Jay]

jcm - 4/11/2007  8:46 AM

Chris Bergin - 4/11/2007  2:49 AM

bodge - 4/11/2007  7:46 AM

Note the transfer message, page 30

 :laugh:

So I get item 900, what is item 901? I don't think we have the transfer list update file, even on L2?

I thought 900 and 901 were Clay Anderson and Daniel Tani.

[jmjawors]

I think you're right.  It's Dan Tani.

[ChrisC]

Further the shuttle drops in at a steep glideslope, and the smoke is not likely to get to high altitudes like a volcano eruption, so I think the shuttle would never actually fly through any smoke, even if there were fires near Edwards.  I'm assuming that the fires have remained south and west of EDW and thus downstream of prevailing winds.

[ChrisC]

Well they better NOT take Dan Tani back with them!

[Ford Mustang]

I'll miss Clay.  

[AntiKev]

If PAO is to be believed there will be a full fly-around tomorrow.  And MSB coming up in 5 minutes.

[Ford Mustang]

[Chris Bergin]

As I wrote, before the extension, cryo was at: EGIL - cryo margins 1d19h (no SSPTS), 3d7h (SSPTS). So I don't see why they couldn't do a full flyaround, based on that.

[AntiKev]

Chris, I think the concern was propellant not cryos.

[Chris Bergin]

2,020lbs heading back with Discovery in the middeck.

31,814lb added to ISS (including Node 2 etc).

[Chris Bergin]

Confirms the OBSS sensors are all ok (that really is something!)

[Chris Bergin]

Didn't say it, but pretty much confirms it's a full flyaround.

[Chris Bergin]

AntiKev - 4/11/2007  4:38 PM

Chris, I think the concern was propellant not cryos.

Sorry, should have said consumables..but the above is the determining factor? I can go after RCS tankage etc.

[Chris Bergin]

Basically, the LCS is having problems on the OBSS, but they are using Sensor Package 1 for the Late Inspection, so isn't required.

[ChrisC]

Great followup question about the OBSS, drilling in on the semantics!

[psloss]

What was the concern about not doing the nominal flyaround?  I didn't hear anything about increased prop usage (given that the station has been holding attitude most of the time).

IIRC, the last time they shortened the flyaround wasn't due to prop margins, but time constraints specific to that mission.

[Martin FL]

ChrisC - 4/11/2007  10:46 AM

Great followup question about the OBSS, drilling in on the semantics!

They don't win any prizes for being days behind being aware of it being an issue.

[Chris Bergin]

psloss - 4/11/2007  4:47 PM

What was the concern about not doing the nominal flyaround?  I didn't hear anything about increased prop usage (given that the station has been holding attitude most of the time).

IIRC, the last time they shortened the flyaround wasn't due to prop margins, but time constraints specific to that mission.

Because of station keeping, when the Russian computers went haywire if I recall.

[joshcryer]

Chris Bergin - 4/11/2007  10:40 AM

Confirms the OBSS sensors are all ok (that really is something!)

That's great news, I've been scouring the threads here to see how that turned out. Didn't want to ask and be OT.

[Chris Bergin]

It is nine, by the way on the WLE.

"All within family" (note that the one which is three times the maximum ever observed, is below the 5.0 GRMS which I believe is when they start worrying about RCC damage/holes).

[Chris Bergin]

joshcryer - 4/11/2007  4:50 PM

Chris Bergin - 4/11/2007  10:40 AM

Confirms the OBSS sensors are all ok (that really is something!)

That's great news, I've been scouring the threads here to see how that turned out. Didn't want to ask and be OT.

Check the first post of this thread

[Chris Bergin]

Too soon to know where the TRad DTO will be pushed to. Probably will go back to STS-126 if you ask me, as it was orginally.

[Chris Bergin]

And that's the MSB done. Decent questions, asked all that needed to be asked, which is rare. Rob Navias even got his calculator out for the question from Todd H.

[psloss]

Chris Bergin - 4/11/2007  11:54 AM

Too soon to know where the TRad DTO will be pushed to. Probably will go back to STS-126 if you ask me, as it was orginally.

Actually, Mike Suffredini said at one of the pressers recently that they wanted it done before the HST servicing mission, but I don't know that I'd seen that called out in anything you've posted...

[Ford Mustang]

MSB Concluded!

[Chris Bergin]

psloss - 4/11/2007  4:56 PM

Chris Bergin - 4/11/2007  11:54 AM

Too soon to know where the TRad DTO will be pushed to. Probably will go back to STS-126 if you ask me, as it was orginally.

Actually, Mike Suffedini said at one of the pressers recently that they wanted it done before the HST servicing mission, but I don't know that I'd seen that called out in anything you've posted...

Yep, quoted him as he said it, as we do with all MSBs. I remember transcribing that as he said it....though we all know TRAD is for 125, like the LAR is, as a "doubt it'll be ever needed' - noted 126 as that was the orginal idea before the gouge on Endeavour/118.

[Ronsmytheiii]

Chris Bergin - 4/11/2007  11:54 AM

Too soon to know where the TRad DTO will be pushed to. Probably will go back to STS-126 if you ask me, as it was originally.

Wasn't it stated that they want to get it done before sts-125?  Honestly, that is the only time that the T-rad is really needed, if any other time the crew would just go to ISS.  I know we have the LON shuttle, however with ISS we dont risk a crew with the same problem, and can simply soyuz them home.  (allot of soyuz, but it can happen)

[psloss]

Chris Bergin - 4/11/2007  11:57 AM

Yep, quoted him as he said it, as we do with all MSBs. I remember transcribing that as he said it....though we all know TRAD is for 125, like the LAR is, as a "doubt it'll be ever needed' - noted 126 as that was the orginal idea before the gouge on Endeavour/118.

And of course the issues with the starboard SARJ are also going to be fighting for already allocated docked time on these upcoming missions.

[ace007]

When are they planning on undockign with the OBSS still out there attached to the Shuttle arm or will they get it stowed back in the bay before then?  I guess they could undock with it out there but I'd wonder about stress concerns as they manuver after undocking.  The Nasa TV schedule show not show them berthing the OBSS until late Monday after the inspection is done.

[collectSPACE]

These will be refined after undocking, but here are the initial landing opportunities:

Deorbit Opportunities for STS-120 (all times are CST)
Updated: November 3, 2007

Date	Orbit	Site	TIG	Landing
Wed, Nov. 7	238	KSC	11:00 a.m.	12:02 p.m.
	239	EDW	12:28 p.m.	1:28 p.m.
		NOR	12:31 p.m.	1:31 p.m.
		KSC	12:38 p.m.	1:35 p.m.
	240	EDW	2:04 p.m.	3:02 p.m.
		NOR	2:06 p.m.	3:04 p.m.
Thu, Nov. 8	253	KSC	9:33 a.m.	10:33 a.m.
	254	EDW	10:58 a.m.	12:00 p.m.
		NOR	11:01 a.m.	12:02 p.m.
		KSC	11:09 a.m.	12:07 p.m.
	255	EDW	12:34 p.m.	1:34 p.m.
		NOR	12:37 p.m.	1:37 p.m.
	256	EDW	2:09 p.m.	3:08 p.m.
Fri, Nov. 9	269	KSC	9:39 a.m.	10:39 a.m.
	270	EDW	11:04 p.m.	12:06 p.m.
		NOR	11:07 a.m.	12:08 p.m.
		KSC	11:14 a.m.	12:13 p.m.
	271	EDW	12:40 p.m.	1:40 p.m.
		NOR	12:43 p.m.	1:42 p.m.
TIG = Time of Ignition for Deorbit Burn KSC = Kennedy Space Center EDW = Edwards Air Force Base NOR - Northrup Flight Strip (White Sands)

Deorbit Timeline for the First KSC Landing Opportunity November 7
(all times are CST)

5:38 a.m.	Deorbit Prep begins
8:20 a.m.	Payload Bay Door closing
8:32 a.m.	Transition to Reentry Software (Ops 3)
9:36 a.m.	Donning ACES flight suits
10:10 a.m.	Seat ingress
10:13 a.m.	OMS Gimbal Check
10:27 a.m.	APU Prestart
10:42 a.m.	"Go-No Go" decision for deorbit burn
10:49 a.m.	Maneuver for deorbit burn attitude
11:00 a.m.	Deorbit burn
12:02 p.m.	KSC landing

[psloss]

ace007 - 4/11/2007  12:00 PM

When are they planning on undockign with the OBSS still out there attached to the Shuttle arm or will they get it stowed back in the bay before then?  I guess they could undock with it out there but I'd wonder about stress concerns as they manuver after undocking.  The Nasa TV schedule show not show them berthing the OBSS until late Monday after the inspection is done.

Maybe it wasn't planned for this mission, but it's been done before on STS-121 at least.

[Ford Mustang]

[Jorge]

ace007 - 4/11/2007  11:00 AM

When are they planning on undockign with the OBSS still out there attached to the Shuttle arm or will they get it stowed back in the bay before then?  I guess they could undock with it out there but I'd wonder about stress concerns as they manuver after undocking.  The Nasa TV schedule show not show them berthing the OBSS until late Monday after the inspection is done.

The RMS/OBSS is certified for loads during undocking, flyaround, and separation burns up to 1.0 fps. To accommodate separation with the OBSS unstowed, the SEP-2 burn has been reduced from 1.5 to 1.0 fps.

[Real Madrid]

the farwell cermony is planned for 18:28 GMT

[Andy_Small]

Looks like they are getting some stuff ready to either go home or stay on Station

[nathan.moeller]

Thanks for the landing times Robert.  Does anyone have the ground-tracks for entry or are those unavailable for the next couple of days?

[DaveS]

nathan.moeller - 4/11/2007  7:07 PM

Thanks for the landing times Robert.  Does anyone have the ground-tracks for entry or are those unavailable for the next couple of days?

According to Rob Navias at today's MSB, they're still in work. They're usually available some 48 to 24 hours before landing.

[jcm]

Lee Jay - 4/11/2007  10:57 AM

jcm - 4/11/2007  8:46 AM

Chris Bergin - 4/11/2007  2:49 AM

bodge - 4/11/2007  7:46 AM

Note the transfer message, page 30

 :laugh:

So I get item 900, what is item 901? I don't think we have the transfer list update file, even on L2?

I thought 900 and 901 were Clay Anderson and Daniel Tani.

Ahh! That makes sense. Stow 900 on the Shuttle, and transfer 901 to the Station. :-)

[Andy USA]

ItsyAndy - 4/11/2007  5:46 AM

I missed the PAO event to do some translation. I'll try to watch replays on Sky Italia and sum it up, or maybe we will have a replay on NTV with translation later.

Recording, http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3009&Itemid=1

[nathan.moeller]

DaveS - 4/11/2007  12:10 PM

nathan.moeller - 4/11/2007  7:07 PM

Thanks for the landing times Robert.  Does anyone have the ground-tracks for entry or are those unavailable for the next couple of days?

According to Rob Navias at today's MSB, they're still in work. They're usually available some 48 to 24 hours before landing.

Thanks Dave.  I'll keep an eye out for them.  I'm hoping for a pass over North Texas so I can see her come home.  If that indeed happens, I'll grab a buddy and we'll get video and pictures for you guys.

[Real Madrid]

collectSPACE - 4/11/2007  6:10 PM

These will be refined after undocking, but here are the initial landing opportunities:

Deorbit Opportunities for STS-120 (all times are CST)
Updated: November 3, 2007

Date	Orbit	Site	TIG	Landing
Wed, Nov. 7	238	KSC	11:00 a.m.	12:02 p.m.
	239	EDW	12:28 p.m.	1:28 p.m.
		NOR	12:31 p.m.	1:31 p.m.
		KSC	12:38 p.m.	1:35 p.m.
	240	EDW	2:04 p.m.	3:02 p.m.
		NOR	2:06 p.m.	3:04 p.m.
Thu, Nov. 8	253	KSC	9:33 a.m.	10:33 a.m.
	254	EDW	10:58 a.m.	12:00 p.m.
		NOR	11:01 a.m.	12:02 p.m.
		KSC	11:09 a.m.	12:07 p.m.
	255	EDW	12:34 p.m.	1:34 p.m.
		NOR	12:37 p.m.	1:37 p.m.
	256	EDW	2:09 p.m.	3:08 p.m.
Fri, Nov. 9	269	KSC	9:39 a.m.	10:39 a.m.
	270	EDW	11:04 p.m.	12:06 p.m.
		NOR	11:07 a.m.	12:08 p.m.
		KSC	11:14 a.m.	12:13 p.m.
	271	EDW	12:40 p.m.	1:40 p.m.
		NOR	12:43 p.m.	1:42 p.m.
TIG = Time of Ignition for Deorbit Burn KSC = Kennedy Space Center EDW = Edwards Air Force Base NOR - Northrup Flight Strip (White Sands)

Deorbit Timeline for the First KSC Landing Opportunity November 7
(all times are CST)

5:38 a.m.	Deorbit Prep begins
8:20 a.m.	Payload Bay Door closing
8:32 a.m.	Transition to Reentry Software (Ops 3)
9:36 a.m.	Donning ACES flight suits
10:10 a.m.	Seat ingress
10:13 a.m.	OMS Gimbal Check
10:27 a.m.	APU Prestart
10:42 a.m.	"Go-No Go" decision for deorbit burn
10:49 a.m.	Maneuver for deorbit burn attitude
11:00 a.m.	Deorbit burn
12:02 p.m.	KSC landing

do you know also the GMT times ?

[ETEE]

Add 6 hours to CST hours for GMT

[Ford Mustang]

Clay:  Trying to maximize my time in space.. Pursue a record or something.  


He will be missed.

[Ford Mustang]

Discovery: I believe we're done with the checklist of transfer items, except for Clay and Dan.

MCC-H: Yes, we've been following.. You're all done.  We're hoping that Clay and Dan help you.. in respect to their proper sides.  

[Chris Bergin]

Heh..

[Real Madrid]

what means MCC-H?

[Bejowawo]

MCC stands for Mission Control Center
I guess the H stands for Houston

[generic_handle_42]

Real Madrid - 4/11/2007  1:35 PM

what means MCC-H?

Mission Control Centre - Houston

[jmjawors]

I think I just understood that we're more than 10 minutes away from the start of the farewells.

EDIT :: Yes... I understood correctly.  And at that point, we may have lost KU.  Checking now to see if it can be acquired through Discovery. 

[Ford Mustang]

Discovery will have KU during some of the KU loss of the ISS.

[jmjawors]

Running behind on their final tasks, so we may not see this live.

[Ford Mustang]

jmjawors - 4/11/2007  1:50 PM

Running behind on their final tasks, so we may not see this live.

MCC-H said they could do as they pleased, whether they want to do it now, or after AOS with ISS KU.  They will call back down after their final tasks are complete to see what is best.

[Ronsmytheiii]

Crew farewell in 10 minutes.

[Ford Mustang]

Farewell ceremony in about 10 minutes.

[Real Madrid]

Farewell ceremony in about 1 minute.

[Thorny]

nathan.moeller - 4/11/2007  12:18 PM

Thanks Dave.  I'll keep an eye out for them.  I'm hoping for a pass over North Texas so I can see her come home.  If that indeed happens, I'll grab a buddy and we'll get video and pictures for you guys.

They're in the wrong orbit for an entry over North Texas. If history is a judge, this should be over Minnesota/Wisconsin/Illinois/Kentucky/Tennessee/Georgia. on the first oppoprtunity.

[Ford Mustang]

Coming up on a hand-over, wanting to see if they get KU on the other side.

[Ford Mustang]

Farewell ceremony happening.

[lcs]

Der Bingle...

[jmjawors]

Continuing with Suni's musical tradition.  

"O Danny Boy" welcoming Dan Tani.

[Ford Mustang]

Clay's speaking now.

[Lee Jay]

Farewell ceremony in progress, Clay giving a speech, thanking everyone on the ground.  Seems to be getting a bit emotional as well.

"It's worth the risk, it's worth the cost...take pride in your work,...look toward the heavens, for it is there that you will see your future."

[Iren]

Whats the song he played?

Edit: Nevermind, delete post please

[Real Madrid]

who speaks after Clay?

[Ford Mustang]

Iren, look up a post above my last.


Clay's getting a bit emotional!!  (I would too after 5 months on the ISS!)

[Ford Mustang]

[Ford Mustang]

[jmjawors]

This song I don't know.  Guess it's called "I'm Coming Home."     :bleh:

[Ford Mustang]

[Ford Mustang]

[Ford Mustang]

Discovery is now officially welcoming Clay onto the STS-120 Crew.

[jmjawors]

Lots of emotions up there.  

Which I totally relate to.  Man... I'd be a mess!

[Ford Mustang]

Clay: There will be no cities from Iowa during the Increment 16..

[northanger]

"Reunion"

Change will come
Change is here
Love fades out
Then love appears

Now my water's turned to wine
And these thoughts I have
I now claim as mine
I'm coming home

Change has been
Change will be
Time will tell
Then time will ease

Now my curtain has been drawn
And my heart can go
Where my heart does belong
I'm going home

[Ford Mustang]

[Ford Mustang]

[shuttlefan]

Very emotional :frown:  

[jmjawors]

I'm getting old.  For a second there I was asking myself "why is Dan staying so far away from the airlock?"

 :laugh:

[Ford Mustang]

[rocketguy101]

wow, really looks empty now!

[Sukkula]

Quite emotional, yes. But sometimes it´s good to cry, even in space.

[ShuttleDiscovery]

Yuri and Peggy in PMA2..

[jmjawors]

The lab's a lot cleaner than in the past after such large transfers.  Helps to have a "spare room" to put that stuff in.  

[Ronsmytheiii]

Indeed, Destiny looks almost brand new!

Although it does make you think how bad it will look with a six person crew, even with two more labs and another node.

[ShuttleDiscovery]

Ronsmytheiii - 4/11/2007  7:41 PM

Indeed, Destiny looks almost brand new!

That's a very big 'almost'...

[Jim]

jmjawors - 4/11/2007  2:40 PM

The lab's a lot cleaner than in the past after such large transfers.  Helps to have a "spare room" to put that stuff in.  

It is only cleaner because it wasn't a large transfer, only the the middeck had items, there was no MPLM or Spacehab module

[ShuttleDiscovery]

Now ready to close hatch on ISS side of PMA2

[Ford Mustang]

Items 900 and 901 are complete.  Look back in the thread for the reference.  

[rocketguy101]

900 with bat cape

[Ronsmytheiii]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, but with Discovery delivering the Node 2 this means that now all the orbiters in the fleet have delivered permanent pressurized modules to the ISS.

[DaveS]

Real Madrid - 4/11/2007  8:49 PM
I read that the PMA-2 from the destiny to harmony goes?

Yes.

[Ronsmytheiii]

Real Madrid - 4/11/2007  2:49 PM

I read that the PMA-2 from the destiny to harmony goes?

In a couple of days, the PMA-2 will be undocked from destiny and placed on Harmony.  A couple more after that, Hamony will be moved to where PMA-2 is now.

[ShuttleDiscovery]

Ronsmytheiii - 4/11/2007  7:47 PM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, but with Discovery delivering the Node 2 this means that now all the orbiters in the fleet have delivered permanent pressurized modules to the ISS.

Oh yeah. Endeavour hasn't delivered any pressurised modules since STS-88 (Unity)...

[ShuttleDiscovery]

Real Madrid - 4/11/2007  7:52 PM

thus now the shuttles are docking to Hamony?

From STS-122 onwards, yes.

[marsavian]

northanger - 4/11/2007  1:33 PM

i think the song is " Reunion"

Change will come
Change is here
Love fades out
Then love appears

Now my water's turned to wine
And these thoughts I have
I now claim as mine
I'm coming home

good job, Clay!

This version ?

[jmjawors]

Scott reports an MMOD strike on one of Discovery's windows.

[Kel]

marsavian - 4/11/2007  1:55 PM

northanger - 4/11/2007  1:33 PM

i think the song is " Reunion"

Change will come
Change is here
Love fades out
Then love appears

Now my water's turned to wine
And these thoughts I have
I now claim as mine
I'm coming home

good job, Clay!

This version ?

Band = Collective Soul

[northanger]

marsavian - 4/11/2007  1:55 PM

northanger - 4/11/2007  1:33 PM

i think the song is " Reunion"

This version ?

yes. that sounds right. the song is The Big Snow?

[marsavian]

northanger - 4/11/2007  2:02 PM

marsavian - 4/11/2007  1:55 PM

northanger - 4/11/2007  1:33 PM

i think the song is " Reunion"

This version ?

yes. that sounds right. the song is The Big Snow?

No, Reunion. That was just the video theme it was set to.

[Johnny Rönnberg]

Ronsmytheiii - 4/11/2007  7:47 PM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, but with Discovery delivering the Node 2 this means that now all the orbiters in the fleet have delivered permanent pressurized modules to the ISS.

Discovery STS-92 delivered the PMA-3 back in 2000.

[Ford Mustang]

[northanger]

Clay's last ISS song: "" (thanks, marsavian) by Collective Soul (thanks, Kel).

[jmjawors]

Orbiter/ISS complex now apparently in orbit over Mars.  

(Apparently, it's South America... surprising lack of color.  Reminded me of old Mariner photos)  

[ChrisC]

Thanks to whichever moderator cleaned the recent clutter of basic questions out of this thread.  Affected User Who Will Remain Unnamed, please search this forum a little bit or even Just Google It before posting here.  Thanks.

Maybe I'll put links to the FAQ and/or General Q+A forums in my sig

I'm interested to hear more about that MMOD strike ...

[station55]

ok they have closed the hatches between two vehicles... and what about the P1 radiators number 1 and 3? Why arent the radiators deployed yet?

[Ronsmytheiii]

station55 - 4/11/2007  3:56 PM

ok they have closed the hatches between two vehicles... and what about the P1 radiators number 1 and 3? Why arent the radiators deployed yet?

They are going to be deployed after undocking, don't know the exact day.

[Chandonn]

A quick glance suggests that they won't be deployed until Harmony is relocated... due to clearance issues.

[punkboi]

Chandonn - 4/11/2007 1:35 PM A quick glance suggests that they won't be deployed until Harmony is relocated... due to clearance issues.

My sentiments, exactly.

EDIT: Space Station Freedom...and reality.

[ChrisGebhardt]

punkboi - 4/11/2007  5:00 PM

Chandonn - 4/11/2007 1:35 PM A quick glance suggests that they won't be deployed until Harmony is relocated... due to clearance issues.

My sentiments, exactly.

EDIT: Space Station Freedom...and reality.

Wow! Never realized how similar Freedom and ISS Alpha are.

[ChrisGebhardt]

Forgive me if this has been asked before in one of the multiple STS-120 threads but the search function doesn't work for me. So, with the shift in landing times, does this mean Discovery will land on a desending trajectory over much of the US. Thanks.

[uko]

punkboi - 4/11/2007  4:00 PM

Chandonn - 4/11/2007 1:35 PM A quick glance suggests that they won't be deployed until Harmony is relocated... due to clearance issues.

My sentiments, exactly.

EDIT: Space Station Freedom...and reality.

Cool comparison!!!

[Chris Bergin]

punkboi - 4/11/2007  10:00 PM

Chandonn - 4/11/2007 1:35 PM A quick glance suggests that they won't be deployed until Harmony is relocated... due to clearance issues.

My sentiments, exactly.

EDIT: Space Station Freedom...and reality.

Not too shabby there!

[jmjawors]

No kidding!  Wow.  Of course, there's quite a history with that "Alpha" designation, and your graphic looks like no "Freedom" graphic I've seen before.  Could be the "Space Station Alpha" design that was floating around in the early 90's... just before the ISS was conceived.  Which would make sense.

And yes... descending trajectory.  Details will follow... most likely Tuesday.

[Jim]

Trekkie07 - 4/11/2007  6:30 PM

punkboi - 4/11/2007  5:00 PM

Chandonn - 4/11/2007 1:35 PM A quick glance suggests that they won't be deployed until Harmony is relocated... due to clearance issues.

My sentiments, exactly.

EDIT: Space Station Freedom...and reality.

Wow! Never realized how similar Freedom and ISS Alpha are.

Huh?   It shouldn't be a surprise,  ISS is just Freedom with Russian involvement .  Two less trusses and more modules

[ChrisGebhardt]

jmjawors - 4/11/2007  6:42 PM

And yes... descending trajectory.  Details will follow... most likely Tuesday.

Okay. Good. That's what I thought. A descending trajectory means I'll get to hear those LOUD sonic booms nice and clear as she makes her approach to KSC.

[sts1canada]

Trekkie07 - 4/11/2007  6:31 PM

Forgive me if this has been asked before in one of the multiple STS-120 threads but the search function doesn't work for me. So, with the shift in landing times, does this mean Discovery will land on a descending trajectory over much of the US. Thanks.

Yes, the entry trajectory of Discovery will be from northwest to southeast towards KSC on Wednesday afternoon (Eastern Standard time). The groundtrack for orbit 239 for Discovery on the entry for the first KSC attempt will take the orbiter north of Seattle, near Vancouver and then curve southeast over the Dakotas, down over Missouri and Georgia and along the east coast of Florida to KSC; the official groundtracks will be released by NASA in the next day or so, we will see how close my prediction above is, it should be very close.

I believe this will be first descending entry attempt to KSC since the 41-G Challenger mission landed at KSC on a descending node traj. way back in October 1984, someone please correct me if I am wrong on that!

Richard

[psloss]

sts1canada - 4/11/2007  6:51 PM

I believe this will be first descending entry attempt to KSC since the 41-G Challenger mission landed at KSC on a descending node traj. way back in October 1984, someone please correct me if I am wrong on that!

41-G may have been the first high-inclination mission to land at KSC on a descending node, but I'm pretty sure others did.  Have to go off and check...

[Ronsmytheiii]

sts1canada - 4/11/2007  6:51 PM

Trekkie07 - 4/11/2007  6:31 PM

Forgive me if this has been asked before in one of the multiple STS-120 threads but the search function doesn't work for me. So, with the shift in landing times, does this mean Discovery will land on a descending trajectory over much of the US. Thanks.

Yes, the entry trajectory of Discovery will be from northwest to southeast towards KSC on Wednesday afternoon (Eastern Standard time). The groundtrack for orbit 239 for Discovery on the entry for the first KSC attempt will take the orbiter north of Seattle, near Vancouver and then curve southeast over the Dakotas, down over Missouri and Georgia and along the east coast of Florida to KSC; the official groundtracks will be released by NASA in the next day or so, we will see how close my prediction above is, it should be very close.

I believe this will be first descending entry attempt to KSC since the 41-G Challenger mission landed at KSC on a descending node traj. way back in October 1984, someone please correct me if I am wrong on that!

Richard

here is the Ground track for 41-g.  If sts-120 lands on this track, that means I will finally be able to see a shuttle landing in person!

Edit:  Well not actual touchdown, but the fly over.

[sts1canada]

psloss - 4/11/2007  7:06 PM

sts1canada - 4/11/2007  6:51 PM

I believe this will be first descending entry attempt to KSC since the 41-G Challenger mission landed at KSC on a descending node traj. way back in October 1984, someone please correct me if I am wrong on that!

41-G may have been the first high-inclination mission to land at KSC on a descending node, but I'm pretty sure others did.  Have to go off and check...

Thanks Philip, I appreciate your comments. I don't remember any other STS mission that landed at KSC that crossed the mid section of the USA on a descending node that passed from Oregon, the Dakotas, Missouri and down towards the southeast US to KSC since then (41-G). I have followed every shuttle mission closely since STS-1 and I don't remember another entry traj. like this one since that time in 1984. If you or someone else can find out when the last descending entry traj. to KSC was used, I would like to know, thanks

Richard

Does anyone have the ground landing tracks for Wednesday for KSC?

[sts1canada]

Ronsmytheiii - 4/11/2007  7:14 PM

sts1canada - 4/11/2007  6:51 PM

Trekkie07 - 4/11/2007  6:31 PM

Forgive me if this has been asked before in one of the multiple STS-120 threads but the search function doesn't work for me. So, with the shift in landing times, does this mean Discovery will land on a descending trajectory over much of the US. Thanks.

Yes, the entry trajectory of Discovery will be from northwest to southeast towards KSC on Wednesday afternoon (Eastern Standard time). The groundtrack for orbit 239 for Discovery on the entry for the first KSC attempt will take the orbiter north of Seattle, near Vancouver and then curve southeast over the Dakotas, down over Missouri and Georgia and along the east coast of Florida to KSC; the official groundtracks will be released by NASA in the next day or so, we will see how close my prediction above is, it should be very close.

I believe this will be first descending entry attempt to KSC since the 41-G Challenger mission landed at KSC on a descending node traj. way back in October 1984, someone please correct me if I am wrong on that!

Richard

here is the Ground track for 41-g.  If sts-120 lands on this track, that means I will finally be able to see a shuttle landing in person!

Edit:  Well not actual touchdown, but the fly over.

That ground track is very close to what Discovery will 'fly' on Wednesday for the first KSC attempt, the ground track will be a little closer to & over Missouri than shown here for 41-G as that mission (41-G) was a 57 degree inclination flight and Discovery is a 51.6 degree inclination flight) but by using that image, you will get a good idea of what the entry traj. of Discovery will look like. Thank you for posting that image!

Richard

[ChrisGebhardt]

Justin Wheat - 4/11/2007  7:25 PM

Does anyone have the ground landing tracks for Wednesday for KSC?

As a mentioned a few posts above, NASA will release the ground tracks for Wednesday's landing tomorrow or Tuesday.

[psloss]

sts1canada - 4/11/2007  7:20 PM

Thanks Philip, I appreciate your comments. I don't remember any other STS mission that landed at KSC that crossed the mid section of the USA on a descending node that passed from Oregon, the Dakotas, Missouri and down towards the southeast US to KSC since then (41-G). I have followed every shuttle mission closely since STS-1 and I don't remember another entry traj. like this one since that time in 1984. If you or someone else can find out when the last descending entry traj. to KSC was used, I would like to know, thanks

With few exceptions, the only mentions would be from MCC status reports and Bill Harwood, and both note this for STS-84; however, I'm not sure if this was the last:
http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/sts-84/news/sts-84-mcc-19.txt
http://cbsnews.cbs.com/network/news/space/STS-84_Archive.txt

For ground tracks, I'm looking for a copy of the RTF graphic...

[sts1canada]

psloss - 4/11/2007  7:39 PM

sts1canada - 4/11/2007  7:20 PM

Thanks Philip, I appreciate your comments. I don't remember any other STS mission that landed at KSC that crossed the mid section of the USA on a descending node that passed from Oregon, the Dakotas, Missouri and down towards the southeast US to KSC since then (41-G). I have followed every shuttle mission closely since STS-1 and I don't remember another entry traj. like this one since that time in 1984. If you or someone else can find out when the last descending entry traj. to KSC was used, I would like to know, thanks

With few exceptions, the only mentions would be from MCC status reports and Bill Harwood, and both note this for STS-84; however, I'm not sure if this was the last:
http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/sts-84/news/sts-84-mcc-19.txt
http://cbsnews.cbs.com/network/news/space/STS-84_Archive.txt

For ground tracks, I'm looking for a copy of the RTF graphic...

Thanks Philip for the STS-84 reminder, I forgot about that one, however these descending node entry opps. are very rare for the STS program, good job in finding that one!

Richard

[psloss]

sts1canada - 4/11/2007  7:43 PM

Thanks Philip for the STS-84 reminder, I forgot about that one, however these descending node entry opps. are very rare for the STS program, good job in finding that one!

There's been some discussion in the Q&A thread(s) on descending node entries and what plays into why those aren't flown as much now.  

Here's the ground tracks for 51.6, from the RTF implementation plan.

[Chandonn]

Punkboi, that graphic is too awesome!

Now, if the trajectory follows the 41-G descent trajectory I'll have to find some excuse to go outside at work Wednesday...

[John2375]

STS-74 also landed descending trajectory - I remember seeing a film w/spectacular footage of them coming in over the Canadian Rockies - really amazing!

How does this affect their sleep cycle?  are they basically landing at the end of their 'day' in stead of the beginning?

[Jim]

it is actually better since the cycle isn't affected.  However a waveoff might cause an extension of the day

[psloss]

John2375 - 4/11/2007  7:52 PM

STS-74 also landed descending trajectory - I remember seeing a film w/spectacular footage of them coming in over the Canadian Rockies - really amazing!

How does this affect their sleep cycle?  are they basically landing at the end of their 'day' in stead of the beginning?

Yes, as did STS-79 -- I'm going through the MCC status reports:
http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/sts-79/news/sts-79-mcc-21.txt

This probably should end up in the Q & A thread, but here's a few existing posts (I'll add to this momentarily):
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=8406&start=61#M151127
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=6156&start=931#M180132
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=6156&start=931#M180311

[Bubbinski]

Chandonn - 4/11/2007  5:49 PM

Now, if the trajectory follows the 41-G descent trajectory I'll have to find some excuse to go outside at work Wednesday...

But are shuttle entries visible overhead from the ground, in broad daylight, at peak heating?  I've seen the shuttle reenter at night.

[Andrewwski]

How far could one be from the track on the descending track to see it, if seeing it is possible?

[MKremer]

Bubbinski - 4/11/2007  7:50 PM

Chandonn - 4/11/2007  5:49 PM

Now, if the trajectory follows the 41-G descent trajectory I'll have to find some excuse to go outside at work Wednesday...

But are shuttle entries visible overhead from the ground, in broad daylight, at peak heating?  I've seen the shuttle reenter at night.

Yes, you just won't be able to see much of the long-lasting spectacular glowing trail behind like during darkness.

[ratman]

Chris Bergin - 4/11/2007  7:44 AM
Certainly is great work if this is a working OBSS as suggested, as they expected it to last no longer than five hours.

The chart makes you wonder: what is the equilibrium temperature for an object on orbit ? (let's say it's white and insulated like OBSS). Looks like OBSS would stabilize around -50 C - which is a bit strange considering that average Earth surface temp is +14 C...

[Lee Jay]

ratman - 4/11/2007  7:14 PM

Chris Bergin - 4/11/2007  7:44 AM
Certainly is great work if this is a working OBSS as suggested, as they expected it to last no longer than five hours.

The chart makes you wonder: what is the equilibrium temperature for an object on orbit ? (let's say it's white and insulated like OBSS). Looks like OBSS would stabilize around -50 C - which is a bit strange considering that average Earth surface temp is +14 C...

Greenhouse effect.

[ratman]

Lee Jay - 4/11/2007  9:18 PM
Greenhouse effect.

Thanks - that seems to be right. Looks like radiative equilibrium reflects average temp somewhere in the atmosphere - surface temp is much higher...
Sorry for the offtopic.

[Jim]

ratman - 4/11/2007  9:14 PM

Chris Bergin - 4/11/2007  7:44 AM
Certainly is great work if this is a working OBSS as suggested, as they expected it to last no longer than five hours.

The chart makes you wonder: what is the equilibrium temperature for an object on orbit ? (let's say it's white and insulated like OBSS). Looks like OBSS would stabilize around -50 C - which is a bit strange considering that average Earth surface temp is +14 C...

The earth is a smaller portion of the "sky" than deep space. And there is the occasional sun viewing

[ETEE]

psloss - 5/11/2007  12:47 AM

Here's the ground tracks for 51.6, from the RTF implementation plan.

It appears that the ascending deorbit opportunities have more banking options than the decending ones.  Is this why ascending configurations are preferred?

[John2375]

And didn't STS-79 also make an overhead RIGHT turn to Runway 15 - very unusual, don't think that's been done before

[collectSPACE]

jmjawors - 4/11/2007  1:57 PM

Scott reports an MMOD strike on one of Discovery's windows.

[psloss]

John2375 - 5/11/2007  8:03 AM

And didn't STS-79 also make an overhead RIGHT turn to Runway 15 - very unusual, don't think that's been done before

Not that unusual...descending node entries (well, high-inclination ones) are more unusual.