Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)

• #920 by iamlucky13 on 28 Apr, 2008 19:29
• Quote

  psloss - 25/4/2008  5:11 PM
  
  

  Quote

  nacnud - 25/4/2008  7:52 PM
  
  Why are the forward and aft RCS tanks not linked therefore not allowing for trim adjustments helping with re-entry and landing?

  Not sure, but there was a planned upgrade to interconnect them, which was eventually cancelled.
  

  It seems like it would come down to the cost and weight penalty of piping running the length of the shuttle versus the planning necessary to utilize the fuel effectively.
  
  But if they'd gone with the connection, I'd think they could just eliminate the forward RCS tanks altogether.
• #921 by psloss on 28 Apr, 2008 22:03
• Quote

  iamlucky13 - 28/4/2008  3:29 PM
  
  But if they'd gone with the connection, I'd think they could just eliminate the forward RCS tanks altogether.

  Without the forward tanks are you sure the aft tanks have enough capacity for the forward and aft jets combined?  Can you still use the forward jets if you have to isolate them from a leak in the aft?
  
• #922 by GLS on 29 Apr, 2008 16:50
• I've read somewhere that there have been 4 SSWS tests. I know of 3 (the first in 79 when Enterprise was at 39A, then prior to STS 2 there was another one due to mods, and in 04 when it valves were changed).
  I now DaveS has posted an image of another test at SLC-6 (thanks for the pic!!! ) on http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=12859&posts=4&start=1
  
  Is this the test I'm missing???
• #923 by psloss on 29 Apr, 2008 18:31
• Quote

  GLS - 29/4/2008  12:50 PM
  
  I've read somewhere that there have been 4 SSWS tests. I know of 3 (the first in 79 when Enterprise was at 39A, then prior to STS 2 there was another one due to mods, and in 04 when it valves were changed).
  I now DaveS has posted an image of another test at SLC-6 (thanks for the pic!!! ) on http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=12859&posts=4&start=1
  
  Is this the test I'm missing???

  There have been a few others, to validate after hardware replacements.
• #924 by iamlucky13 on 29 Apr, 2008 23:56
• Quote

  psloss - 28/4/2008  3:03 PM
  
  

  Quote

  iamlucky13 - 28/4/2008  3:29 PM
  
  But if they'd gone with the connection, I'd think they could just eliminate the forward RCS tanks altogether.

  Without the forward tanks are you sure the aft tanks have enough capacity for the forward and aft jets combined?  Can you still use the forward jets if you have to isolate them from a leak in the aft?

  My presumption would be if they went with just aft tanks, they would be bigger than they ultimately ended up being. But I'm speculating here and since this is Q&A it would probably be best to just defer to anyone who might know why North American/NASA went with separate fore/aft tanks.
• #925 by pr1268 on 30 Apr, 2008 03:02
• Quote

  iamlucky13 - 29/4/2008  6:56 PM
  My presumption would be if they went with just aft tanks, they would be bigger than they ultimately ended up being. But I'm speculating here and since this is Q&A it would probably be best to just defer to anyone who might know why North American/NASA went with separate fore/aft tanks.

  
  Separate fore/aft tanks adds a measure of safety redundancy.  This, of course, is just my intuitive guess; my knowledge of STS systems and design engineering pales in comparison to others' who post here.
• #926 by shuttlelegs on 30 Apr, 2008 06:12
• I belive there was a full SSWS test with STS 26 as well. Do you have the date of the SLC 6 test at Vafb ?
• #927 by GLS on 30 Apr, 2008 13:54
• Quote

  psloss - 29/4/2008  7:31 PM
  
  

  Quote

  GLS - 29/4/2008  12:50 PM
  
  I've read somewhere that there have been 4 SSWS tests. I know of 3 (the first in 79 when Enterprise was at 39A, then prior to STS 2 there was another one due to mods, and in 04 when it valves were changed).
  I now DaveS has posted an image of another test at SLC-6 (thanks for the pic!!! ) on http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=12859&posts=4&start=1
  
  Is this the test I'm missing???

  There have been a few others, to validate after hardware replacements.

  
  Humm, that's news to me... any specifics you'd like to share?
• #928 by psloss on 30 Apr, 2008 14:26
• Quote

  GLS - 30/4/2008  9:54 AM
  
  

  Quote

  psloss - 29/4/2008  7:31 PM
  
  

  Quote

  GLS - 29/4/2008  12:50 PM
  
  I've read somewhere that there have been 4 SSWS tests. I know of 3 (the first in 79 when Enterprise was at 39A, then prior to STS 2 there was another one due to mods, and in 04 when it valves were changed).
  I now DaveS has posted an image of another test at SLC-6 (thanks for the pic!!! ) on http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=12859&posts=4&start=1
  
  Is this the test I'm missing???

  There have been a few others, to validate after hardware replacements.

  
  Humm, that's news to me... any specifics you'd like to share?

  Sorry, not trying to be mysterious...it's based off the NASA TV Video File "b-roll" that was run at the time of the 2004 test.  There are some sound bites of an interview with Steve Payne.
  
• #929 by ANDY_WALLACEGROVE on 30 Apr, 2008 14:42
• Apologies if this has been asked/answered before;
  
  As the PAO walks us through the last few minutes of launch prep, he has previously referred to the "hundreds" or "thousands" of parameters that will be checked between now and launch.......
  my question is, what are these? and where can I find them?  I have read the Launch Abort procedures manual more times than is good for my health, but aside the from "pseudo" descriptions which gives crew guidance on the main activities, is there anything more detailed.
  
  Note for editor: If I had thought 12 months ago I would have had access to the Launch Abort manual I would have been floored. As it is.....I just want more  
  
• #930 by jona vark on 01 May, 2008 04:19
• Hello folks.
  
  I am creating 3D animation for a television show and I have been asked to do some Shuttle imagery. One of the shots I have to complete is a fly through of the cameras and their positions in the shuttle.
  
  As far as I know there are five major (TV) cameras ,
  
  Aft Bulkhead
  Forward bulkhead
  Public Affairs
  Optional KEEL TV camera
  the camera on the Arm.
  
  I have been looking quite a bit to find some images of these cameras so that we cna make or buy 3D models of them. And I have no imagery regarding mounting or placement.
  
  I would like to be as accurate as time permits on this one so any help would be appreciated. Links to pictures or diagrams.
  
  We h ave another shot in the show which is a closeup of the Vernier thrusters on the ship. I learned today that these run from a bi-chemical combustion but I am not sure what a firing thruster should look like.. The spread and color of the output of the engine..
  
  This looks like an interesting forum. I hope you do not mind my inquiry.
  
  Thanks in advance for any assistance.
  
  Jona!
• #931 by Jorge on 01 May, 2008 04:53
• Quote

  jona vark - 30/4/2008  11:19 PM
  
  Hello folks.
  
  I am creating 3D animation for a television show and I have been asked to do some Shuttle imagery. One of the shots I have to complete is a fly through of the cameras and their positions in the shuttle.
  
  As far as I know there are five major (TV) cameras ,
  
  Aft Bulkhead
  Forward bulkhead
  Public Affairs
  Optional KEEL TV camera
  the camera on the Arm.

  
  There are actually two cameras on the forward and aft bulkheads, on the port and starboard sides. They are all mounted on pan/tilt units.
  
  Public Affairs does not have a dedicated camera; they can select any of the cameras for broadcast.
  
  There are two cameras on the arm. The elbow camera is mounted on a pan/tilt unit while the wrist camera is fixed to the arm and pointed along the end effector.
  
  The keel camera, if present, is fixed directly to the payload bay floor.
  
  There is a centerline docking camera that is mounted on a "bridge" truss assembly inside the orbiter docking system, pointed through a circular window in the hatch.
  
  There is a Canon camcorder that can be used inside the cabin.
  
  

  Quote

  I have been looking quite a bit to find some images of these cameras so that we cna make or buy 3D models of them. And I have no imagery regarding mounting or placement.

  
  http://www.shuttlepresskit.com/scom/23.pdf
  
  p. 7 of the PDF has a diagram with the locations of all four bulkhead cameras, both arm cameras, and the four mounting locations for keel cameras. It also has a photo of a camera without a pan/tilt unit or thermal blankets.
  
  P. 12 of the PDF has a picture of a camera on a pan/tilt unit covered with thermal blankets, which is how it would appear in flight. The photo is black and white, but the thermal blankets are gold colored.
  
  p. 14 of the PDF has a drawing of the camcorder.
  
  

  Quote

  We h ave another shot in the show which is a closeup of the Vernier thrusters on the ship. I learned today that these run from a bi-chemical combustion but I am not sure what a firing thruster should look like.. The spread and color of the output of the engine..

  
  The plume is only visible under certain lighting conditions (dark background, sunlight on plume, and even then only at certain angles). It is also only visible at the start/stop of a firing, not during a steady-state firing. The plume is white, expands very widely from the centerline, but also diffuses rapidly from the centerline.
• #932 by jona vark on 01 May, 2008 17:19
• Thank you very much. This is very helpful. Hopefully I can do it justice in the short time I have here..
  
  
• #933 by AnimatorRob on 01 May, 2008 18:02
• Quote

  jona vark - 1/5/2008 12:19 AM
  
  I am creating 3D animation for a television show and I have been asked to do some Shuttle imagery.
  
  Jona!

  
  Ugh. I would Kill for an assignment like that.
  
  Question. When Atlantis and Endeavour are on their launch pads for STS-124/ LON-400, is there any chance of NASA rolling back both RSSs for a photo op?
• #934 by pr1268 on 01 May, 2008 19:26
• Quote

  jona vark - 30/4/2008  11:19 PM
  
  Hello folks.
  
  I am creating 3D animation for a television show and I have been asked to do some Shuttle imagery. One of the shots I have to complete is a fly through of the cameras and their positions in the shuttle.
  

  
  Don't forget the ET camera.  I'm not sure if that meets your criteria since it's not actually ON the Shuttle, and besides, it's only used during the launch.  Still, that camera view is one of my favorite things to watch.
• #935 by GLS on 02 May, 2008 16:12
• Quote

  psloss - 30/4/2008  3:26 PM
  
  

  Quote

  GLS - 30/4/2008  9:54 AM
  
  

  Quote

  psloss - 29/4/2008  7:31 PM
  
  

  Quote

  GLS - 29/4/2008  12:50 PM
  
  I've read somewhere that there have been 4 SSWS tests. I know of 3 (the first in 79 when Enterprise was at 39A, then prior to STS 2 there was another one due to mods, and in 04 when it valves were changed).
  I now DaveS has posted an image of another test at SLC-6 (thanks for the pic!!! ) on http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=12859&posts=4&start=1
  
  Is this the test I'm missing???

  There have been a few others, to validate after hardware replacements.

  
  Humm, that's news to me... any specifics you'd like to share?

  Sorry, not trying to be mysterious...it's based off the NASA TV Video File "b-roll" that was run at the time of the 2004 test.  There are some sound bites of an interview with Steve Payne.
  

  
  It's OK, thanks to the NASA history department we're all working with bits and pieces...
• #936 by Ronsmytheiii on 02 May, 2008 16:56
• When there was a Shuttle- skylab program, what would the crew have used as a crew escape vehicle?  Did the planners at the time believe that the shuttle would just hang on the end without considering if it had a time limit?  Or would they have been limited to a week or so expeditions? I can only think that this was back in the day when there was supposed to be weekly shuttle launches, and maybe NASA imagined that if anything would go wrong a shuttle would be ready to spring up at a moment's notice.  That or a modified Apollo CSM attached for emergencies.
• #937 by rocketguy101 on 03 May, 2008 02:44

• Quote

  jona vark - 30/4/2008 11:19 PM Links to pictures or diagrams. We h ave another shot in the show which is a closeup of the Vernier thrusters on the ship. I learned today that these run from a bi-chemical combustion but I am not sure what a firing thruster should look like..

  Jona

  Go to this thread and download the video.  There are scenes of thruster firing, if you are still looking.

• #938 by Mike_1179 on 05 May, 2008 17:50
• Quote

  pr1268 - 1/5/2008  3:26 PM
  
  

  Quote

  jona vark - 30/4/2008  11:19 PM
  
  Hello folks.
  
  I am creating 3D animation for a television show and I have been asked to do some Shuttle imagery. One of the shots I have to complete is a fly through of the cameras and their positions in the shuttle.
  

  
  Don't forget the ET camera.  I'm not sure if that meets your criteria since it's not actually ON the Shuttle, and besides, it's only used during the launch.  Still, that camera view is one of my favorite things to watch.

  
  I know its being picky, but the ET is technically part of the shuttle.  The "Space Shuttle" is the whole space transportation system, which is made of the reusable solid rocket boosters, the external tank and the orbiter.  The orbiter is the only thing that actually goes into orbit, but the whole thing is referred to as the shuttle.
• #939 by kneecaps on 05 May, 2008 23:24
• Quote

  ANDY_WALLACEGROVE - 30/4/2008  2:42 PM
  
  Apologies if this has been asked/answered before;
  
  As the PAO walks us through the last few minutes of launch prep, he has previously referred to the "hundreds" or "thousands" of parameters that will be checked between now and launch.......
  my question is, what are these? and where can I find them?  I have read the Launch Abort procedures manual more times than is good for my health, but aside the from "pseudo" descriptions which gives crew guidance on the main activities, is there anything more detailed.
  

  
  Sounds like your referring to the LCCs......Launch Commit Criteria. There are probably thousands, but I'm not aware of a complete list.
  
  

  Quote

  Note for editor: If I had thought 12 months ago I would have had access to the Launch Abort manual I would have been floored. As it is.....I just want more  
  

  
  Launch Abort manual? Do you mean the Ascent and Launch Abort manual on L2? Just checking to see if i've missed one