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#440 by LSainsbury on 28 Jan, 2008 18:37
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Regarding the Challenger news article today (22 years) where does the time go uh?
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=4267
Says:
The crew compartment survived intact, with the crew surviving the initial break-up. The events that followed for the crew are known to some of engineers close to the mission and need not be published - but ultimately the seven astronauts died when their cabin hit the ocean a few minutes later at over 200 mph.
Sorry to ask, but just out of curiosity, what were the events that followed the break-up?
RIP Challenger crew, Apollo crew and Columbia crew.
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#441 by Jim on 28 Jan, 2008 19:41
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Quote
LSainsbury - 28/1/2008 2:37 PM
Regarding the Challenger news article today (22 years) where does the time go uh?
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=4267
Says:
The crew compartment survived intact, with the crew surviving the initial break-up. The events that followed for the crew are known to some of engineers close to the mission and need not be published - but ultimately the seven astronauts died when their cabin hit the ocean a few minutes later at over 200 mph.
Sorry to ask, but just out of curiosity, what were the events that followed the break-up?
RIP Challenger crew, Apollo crew and Columbia crew.
Read it! It said need not be published -
#442 by MKremer on 28 Jan, 2008 19:45
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Quote
psloss - 26/1/2008 6:09 AM
Quotespaceshuttle - 25/1/2008 10:39 PM
The timing of the cuts in the live coverage coincidentally made it less noticeable, but it was a fairly large discussion topic on the day of launch.QuoteChris Bergin - 25/1/2008 4:19 PM
Nice work on the door from STS-95. Did not know about that event!
I rewatched that launch millions of times, and I never noticed the door until now.
True. For some of the MSM it was like "OMG!! A door fell off the Shuttle and hit something!!"
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#443 by LSainsbury on 29 Jan, 2008 07:47
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Jim - 28/1/2008 7:41 PM
Read it! It said need not be published
Well yes - I did read it, but as I said - it was out of curiosity as to what the info was...
I know it was widely reported that the crew were probably still alive before hitting the ocean, but not what they were actually trying to do during the descent. All I know is that some emergency O2 feeds were activated but thats about it. I don't don't know if they were trying to escape or were unconscious...
Please feel free to PM me any links, if you don't want to make them known here... -
#444 by DaveS on 29 Jan, 2008 08:02
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LSainsbury - 29/1/2008 9:47 AM
It wasn't O2. It was plain old air. The Personalized Egress Air Packs(PEAPs) were designed for use at sea-level pressure, so the air wasn't pressurized. So by the time they hit apogee, they most likely suffered from extreme oxygen depreviation or was unconscious.
I know it was widely reported that the crew were probably still alive before hitting the ocean, but not what they were actually trying to do during the descent. All I know is that some emergency O2 feeds were activated but thats about it. I don't don't know if they were trying to escape or were unconscious...
The explosive side hatch and slide pole was not existant until after STS-51L. This is when the Launch and Entry Suites made their entry. The LES was replaced in mid-1995 by the Advanced Crew Escape Suit(ACES). -
#445 by LSainsbury on 29 Jan, 2008 09:48
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Thanks for the info DaveS.
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#446 by kimmern123 on 29 Jan, 2008 10:31
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What are the differences between the LES-suit and the ACES-suit??
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#447 by mkirk on 29 Jan, 2008 13:51
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kimmern123 - 29/1/2008 5:31 AM
What are the differences between the LES-suit and the ACES-suit??
LES = Launch and Entry Suit
ACES = Advanced Crew Escape Suit
Although they are two different suits (names), people generally use the term LES to describe both suits.
I have attached a chart from one of my workbooks which provides a comparison of the two types of suits.
Also, if you go to this public link from the SCOM, page 4 gives a good summary of the two suits.
http://www.shuttlepresskit.com/scom/210.pdf
In his L2 section Chris has a copy of the Crew Systems Handbook that has a very good description of the ACES along with photos of the components.
Mark Kirkman
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#448 by LSainsbury on 29 Jan, 2008 20:55
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Anybody point me to a copy of the "Crew Systems Handbook"? Did a search but could not find it... even on L2...
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#449 by mkirk on 29 Jan, 2008 22:56
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rdale - 29/1/2008 5:05 PM
Search "shuttle crew operations manual"
No, he was asking about the "Crew Systems Reference Manual" that I mentioned in the previous post. Sorry, I used the term Handbook by mistake.
I found it and bumped it up in the L2 threads.
Mark Kirkman -
#450 by mkirk on 31 Jan, 2008 18:59
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I'M COPYING THIS RESPONSE I GAVE TO A QUESTION IN ANOTHR THREAD HERE FOR BETTER VISIBILITY SINCE THERE IS SO MUCH DISCUSSION OF THE FREON LOOP FLEX HOSE ISSUE FOR STS-122.Quote
pcb_man - 31/1/2008 1:08 PM
I'm guessing that the Freon loops are in ISO during launch, and only activated after PLB doors are open, correct?
Space Shuttle Thermal Control 101:
"Depending on the mission phase, the Freon cooling loops are cooled four different ways. Prior to launch, cooling is provided by way of the Ground Support Equipment (GSE). After lift-off, there is no active means of cooling until after SRB SEP. It takes the orbiter slightly more than 2 minutes to reach an altitude where water evaporation provides effective cooling (i.e. FES). Until that time, sufficient “thermal inertia’’ is in the Freon loops to limit the temperature increase so that no active heat rejection is required.
At SRB SEP, the FES (flash evaporator system) receives a GPC (general purpose computer) “ON” command from the BFS (backup flight system) and begins providing active cooling. The FES continues to be the primary cooling source through the ascent phase and on into the post insertion timeframe. During the Post Insertion Checklist procedures, flow is initiated through the radiators, the payload bay doors are opened, and the radiators become the primary source of cooling. The FES may be left on to provide supplemental cooling when necessary. If the orbiter is in a warm attitude, radiator cooling efficiency may decrease and the FES may be needed to provide additional cooling to achieve the desired Freon loop temperatures.
During the deorbit prep procedures, the radiators are “coldsoaked” to provide cooling for use
later during entry. The radiator coldsoak process lowers the temperature of Freon in the radiators by changing the radiator control temperature from 38° F to 57° F. Since less cool Freon from the radiators is required to control to this high temperature, flow through the radiators is slower. As a result, the Freon spends a longer period in the radiators exposed to space and becomes colder than if the flow control valve were controlling for a 38° F radiator out temperature. The FES is used to cool the Freon from 57° F to 39° F. After approximately 1 hour of coldsoak, the radiators are bypassed, trapping the cold Freon in the radiators. At this point, the FES providesall the cooling to the Freon loops. The FES supplies cooling during the rest of the deorbit, through EI (entry interface @ 400,000 feet), and down to V = 12k (approximately 175,000 feet).
At V = 12k (velocity of 12,000 feet per second), the radiators are activated, since below 100,000 ft the atmospheric pressure is too high for the FES to cool effectively. Radiator flow is reinitiated after the auto startup sequence is complete. The cool Freon stored in the radiators is used as the primary source of cooling from this point through rollout.
Once the orbiter is on the ground and the radiator coldsoak is depleted, the NH3 (ammonia) boiler is activated. The MCC (mission control center) calls the crew to request the NH3 activation. The NH3 boilers are used as the primary cooling source until the GSE cooling cart hookup is complete. Then the NH3 cooling is deactivated, and GSE cooling is initiated."
One of the real concerns with this issue is not just that some freon might leak out, rather the concern is the potential for a loss of cooling capability. The orbiter can work on a single loop just fine, however, there will likely be an increased use of water for the FES and a need for possible electrical power downs - this is dependent on current orbiter heat loads. You definitely don't like to be down to one loop because of the loss of redundancy. If both loops were to be lossed while on orbit you would need to come home quickly (i.e. De-Orbit as soon as possible and land at the next PLS - primary landing site).
Mark Kirkman -
#451 by tataylor on 05 Feb, 2008 19:16
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I have seen this maneuver done many times right after launch. What I do not understand is how it is done. I can't believe that it can be done by any aero surface changes and don't see how any shuttle engine manipulation can make the whole stack roll. So how are they able to make the roll maneuver happen?
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#452 by rdale on 05 Feb, 2008 19:22
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#453 by jeff122670 on 05 Feb, 2008 19:52
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great reference to the previous thread....but under Q & A...where is the actual thread that answers this question??
if someone could post, i would appreciate it!!
thanks! -
#454 by psloss on 05 Feb, 2008 19:58
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jeff122670 - 5/2/2008 3:52 PM
Jim answered it in the thread that Rob posted:
great reference to the previous thread....but under Q & A...where is the actual thread that answers this question??
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=2311&start=1#M32993
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#455 by Lee Jay on 05 Feb, 2008 20:02
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jeff122670 - 5/2/2008 1:52 PM
great reference to the previous thread....but under Q & A...where is the actual thread that answers this question??
if someone could post, i would appreciate it!!
thanks!
I always have trouble linking to a post, but here's the earliest one I know of (hope this works!).
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=625&start=62 -
#456 by tataylor on 05 Feb, 2008 20:06
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It appears to me in reading some of the links provided that the "roll maneuver" is really a maneuver in all three axes: roll, pitch and yaw. I also read that all of this is accomplished by gimbaling the engines. I can see how this could accomplish the pitch and yaw of the maneuver but not the roll. Wait, I think I get it now. If you gimbal the SRBs in opposite directions you will induce spin and hence cause the roll. Are just the SRBs used or are SSMEs used as well? Sorry I did not post this in the general Q & A section. When I searched I spelled maneuver wrong.
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#457 by Lee Jay on 05 Feb, 2008 20:08
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Well, when they roll to heads-up later in the flight, the SRBs are gone. Thus, the SSMEs can also be used to impart a roll moment. I don't know for sure but I'd guess they all work in concert during the roll performed just off the pad, with the SRBs doing most of the work since they have most of the thrust and since they have a large roll intertia for the SSMEs to throw around.
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#458 by Jim on 05 Feb, 2008 20:10
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tataylor - 5/2/2008 4:06 PM
Are just the SRBs used or are SSMEs used as well?
SRB are prime when they are attached -
#459 by RafaelCE on 07 Feb, 2008 00:14
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From Atlantis STS-122 S0007 thread, on Page 8 of S0007.200 barchart, right after Rotate RSS to Park... there's a "Inflate Dock Seals for Launch". Should happen right after RSS rotate is complete. Anyone knows what exactly are those dock seals that are to be inflated? Which manual or book should I find it?
Thanks!!
