-
#1480
by
Jim
on 30 Nov, 2008 20:52
-
Where is external power hooked up to the orbiter post-flight and in the OPF? I'm aware it's DC (28V, IIRC?), but have never seen a photo showing the connection point.
[/quote}
T-0 panels. It is used prelaunch too
-
#1481
by
usn_skwerl
on 01 Dec, 2008 12:00
-
Oh thanks for that. I don't know the layout of the OPF or how it's config'ed for maintaining the birds, but assumed the orbiters would have an external point somewhere within arm's reach from the ground - or even a small ladder - along with the T-0 area. Do the cables hang from like a wheel from the the ceiling of the OPF like a car repair shop or like an access arm from the wall of the shop like a car wash?
On another question; OV-105 just got home, going to get worked on, cleaned up, fixed, reconfig'ed, etc. What all goes into the turnaround between missions for a given orbiter? I'm quite familiar with aviation maintenance, I know phase inspections and all that, and I'm aware of the effort and time that goes into that.
Could those of us who can't see the 'behind the scenes work' in the OPF get a fairly accurate timeline of what all goes into a turnaround and the typical flow of it? (for example, payload removal - day 1, SSME removal - week 1, wheel changes - day 4 , etc.)
again, thanks.
-
#1482
by
Susan27
on 01 Dec, 2008 13:34
-
First. many thanks Mark for your precise and very interesting answer:
...
So to answer your specific question; yes the crew can fly manually – using heading, alpha (angle of attack), drag altitude, airspeed/mach, etc. The piloting task would include roll reversals just like an auto entry. All of this of course is dependent on the nature of the original failure.
Mark Kirkman
P.S.
A key point I forgot to make in my post is that even manual inputs by the crew are directed thru the DAP which means some DAP failures take out both auto and manual flight control. Such failures would be many levels deep however.
Followup:
1) I learned from your anwer that it is possible to perform the reentry proc manually. But what about the Alpha?
From what I know alpha is about 40° from EI and is reduced slowly after some while. Isnt it very difficult to perform roll reversals from side to side manually at the exact proper moment
and(!) maintaining alpha of exactly 40° at the same time if (and to make it even worse) the
pitch/elevons trim is out of order (e.g. due to some hydraulic problems)? What I mean: To maintain the correct alpha only by hand for a 1 h reentry return...is that really possible...?
2) Do you know if there ever was a reentry of a shuttle where the CMD/PLT had to fly manually...at least partly (exept of the HAC- & landing man)...?
3) Another thing: What is the exact difference between alpha and pitch?
4) Concerning the complete
DAP-failure you mentioned above:
If I understand you right it`s impossible to steer the orbiter (elevons/ailerons/rudder/body flap etc.) by hand anymore (so something like a "fly by wire only")...everything is going "through" the DAP, correct?
a) If so is there something like an emergency plan if they encounter a total DAP failure during reentry...lets say short before EI? What still can be done in that scenario by the crew...or is the shuttle "lost" in such a scenerio...?
b) What if the flightcrew notice this complete DAP failure before DOB? Would this lead to become a
rescue-scenario so that the rescue shuttle waiting on the ground would come into effect...?
Bytheway: Lets say the rescue shuttle would lift off and is positioned closely to the other shuttle. The goal would be to rescue the crew because the orbiter couldnt return safely to earth:
How do the crew members could transfer during an EVA safely from the "odd" shuttle to the rescue shuttle??
Thanks very much!
KR
Susan
-
#1483
by
Jim
on 01 Dec, 2008 13:55
-
Oh thanks for that. I don't know the layout of the OPF or how it's config'ed for maintaining the birds, but assumed the orbiters would have an external point somewhere within arm's reach from the ground - or even a small ladder - along with the T-0 area. Do the cables hang from like a wheel from the the ceiling of the OPF like a car repair shop or like an access arm from the wall of the shop like a car wash?
The T-0 plate is only place for power.
The orbiter is surrounded by platforms and the umbilicals (which include power, data, ECS air, cooling fluid, etc) extend from the platforms to the T-0 umbilical plate
-
#1484
by
Susan27
on 01 Dec, 2008 13:56
-
Hi,
watching the landing of STS-126 at Dryden I saw that the HAC-man was flown by a 340°(?) left turn befor aligning with the RWY HDG of RWY04 (temp):
1) At NASA-TV I saw both HAC-circles (left/right): At which situations the HAC is flown by a left turn and when by a right turn? For example from my point of view (I know it doesnt matter here lol!) the turn yesterday to RWY 04 at EDW could also be flown by a right HAC-turn...so why the descision by MCC to perform a left turn here...?
2) Who at MCC is responsible whether a left- or a right hand turn is flown at the HAC-man...? Is that "Guidance"...?
3) MLS: When watching HAC-man on TV from the pilot-point-of-view camera there is this typical "cross" at the HUD the CMD/PLT is following from the point of entering the HAC towards leaving it:
Is this "cross" at the HUD generated by the MLS only...? Or what systems generate that display?
4) After leaving the HAC I wonder which landing aids the CMD is using for short final appr for GS and HDG/loc guidance:
Is he - at good visibilty - following the VASI lights (I dont know the exact term for the optical red glide slope lights) localised at the (normal) aim point...or something like an ILS system used at (normal) apts...?
The reason I ask: I never saw localiser-/ or GS-needle displays at the HUD after leaving the HAC and performing the short final appr...(!)
5) Finally: Generelly asked...what is the exact reason for that HAC maneuver performed by the shuttle?
Why NASA didnt choose a straight direct approach to the RWY...?
Thanks very much!
-
#1485
by
Jim
on 01 Dec, 2008 14:02
-
1) I learned from your anwer that it is possible to perform the reentry proc manually. But what about the Alpha?
2) Do you know if there ever was a reentry of a shuttle where the CMD/PLT had to fly manually...at least partly (exept of the HAC- & landing man)...?
3) Another thing: What is the exact difference between alpha and pitch?
4) Concerning the complete DAP-failure you mentioned above:
If I understand you right it`s impossible to steer the orbiter (elevons/ailerons/rudder/body flap etc.) by hand anymore (so something like a "fly by wire only")...everything is going "through" the DAP, correct?
a) If so is there something like an emergency plan if they encounter a total DAP failure during reentry...lets say short before EI? What still can be done in that scenario by the crew...or is the shuttle "lost" in such a scenerio...?
b) What if the flightcrew notice this complete DAP failure before DOB? Would this lead to become a rescue-scenario so that the rescue shuttle waiting on the ground would come into effect...?
Bytheway: Lets say the rescue shuttle would lift off and is positioned closely to the other shuttle. The goal would be to rescue the crew because the orbiter couldnt return safely to earth:
5. How do the crew members could transfer during an EVA safely from the "odd" shuttle to the rescue shuttle??
1. with fly by wire it is
2. There was no mission that had to, but part of the entry was flown manually on some of the OFT mission s
3. Alpha is the angle of attack. Pitch is the angle of the nose relative to the local horizon
5. Look at the HST rescue scenarios
-
#1486
by
Jim
on 01 Dec, 2008 14:05
-
Why NASA didnt choose a straight direct approach to the RWY...?
Thanks very much!
energy management. There always will be excess energy available
-
#1487
by
usn_skwerl
on 01 Dec, 2008 15:03
-
Bytheway: Lets say the rescue shuttle would lift off and is positioned closely to the other shuttle. The goal would be to rescue the crew because the orbiter couldnt return safely to earth:
How do the crew members could transfer during an EVA safely from the "odd" shuttle to the rescue shuttle??
just a quick response from what i've seen would bee via RMS connection between the two. crew would transfer as the birds held each other
-
#1488
by
ChrisGebhardt
on 01 Dec, 2008 15:05
-
On another question; OV-105 just got home, going to get worked on, cleaned up, fixed, reconfig'ed, etc. What all goes into the turnaround between missions for a given orbiter? I'm quite familiar with aviation maintenance, I know phase inspections and all that, and I'm aware of the effort and time that goes into that.
Could those of us who can't see the 'behind the scenes work' in the OPF get a fairly accurate timeline of what all goes into a turnaround and the typical flow of it? (for example, payload removal - day 1, SSME removal - week 1, wheel changes - day 4 , etc.)
again, thanks.
It's not really that simple. Each flow is tailored to each orbiter for the specific work that needs to be done to prepare her for her next mission. There's not a specific day/week of the flow that engines come out/go in for example. However, during each flow, the vehcile's flow manager will create a calander of key events based around the work that needs to be done. For example, work on the orbiter's TPS and BRI tiles around the landing gear doors and ET umbilical doors might be postponed until after specific refurbishment or repair work is done on these systems. If there is only standard work to be performed on these areas, the TPS work might come first.
Basically, it's all a matter of scheduling the work in the most time efficient manner.
I have (for my own personal benefit) compiled a rough list of the standard work that goes on during a standard flow. If you want it, PM me your email address.
-
#1489
by
Susan27
on 01 Dec, 2008 16:12
-
Hi,
I know that shuttle landings are mostly "first class". But do you guys who deal yourselves with this stunning stuff for a long time remember for a "not so perfect" landing of a STS-shuttle-mission (due to any reasons...winds etc.) at KSC/EDW?
If so which STS was it...?
Thanks very much!
KR
Susan
-
#1490
by
Susan27
on 01 Dec, 2008 16:26
-
Hi,
I have 3 questions concerning the proc after wheel-stop:
1) After the shuttle came to a complete stop and they meet at "page 5-3" the shuttle crew usually calls the "convoy commander":
Why is this done? Watching the STS-115,-88 Video I didnt see any further voice-contact between the crew and the convoy cmd...(!) So why the CMD has to call him (for a voice check) at all then...?
2) Another checklist item (can be heard on the STS-115 entry video) is that the CMD asks the other crew members "if they feel heavy"...:
Why (medically) is this special item exatcly asked? What other "status/feelings" instead of feeling (very) heavy after days at micro-G can be felt, too at this stage...?
3) When - at which point (e.g. after which checklist-points) the crew is allowed to undress their orange flight suits (what is the correct command: "dawn suits" or so...?)
Why isnt it "allowed" from a NASA point of view that they put their suits out immedialtely after wheel stop (at least the non-flying crew-members)? Hazard of a fire...?
Thanks very much!
KR
Susan
-
#1491
by
Susan27
on 01 Dec, 2008 16:46
-
At the intermediate part of a reentry the crew says something like that from now on "Close look guidance" systems (from the ground?) are in effect...
Do you guys know what exactly is meant by the special NASA space-shutlle term "Close look guidance"? I unfortunately didnt find something useable about at the net...thats why I am asking here...
KR
Susan
-
#1492
by
Jim
on 01 Dec, 2008 16:52
-
Hi,
I have 3 questions concerning the proc after wheel-stop:
1) After the shuttle came to a complete stop and they meet at "page 5-3" the shuttle crew usually calls the "convoy commander":
Why is this done? Watching the STS-115,-88 Video I didnt see any further voice-contact between the crew and the convoy cmd...(!) So why the CMD has to call him (for a voice check) at all then...?
2) Another checklist item (can be heard on the STS-115 entry video) is that the CMD asks the other crew members "if they feel heavy"...:
Why (medically) is this special item exatcly asked? What other "status/feelings" instead of feeling (very) heavy after days at micro-G can be felt, too at this stage...?
3) When - at which point (e.g. after which checklist-points) the crew is allowed to undress their orange flight suits (what is the correct command: "dawn suits" or so...?)
Why isnt it "allowed" from a NASA point of view that they put their suits out immedialtely after wheel stop (at least the non-flying crew-members)? Hazard of a fire...?
1. in case of emergencies
2. Code word for feeling bad
3. donn is the work for putting on a suit. The crew has tasks to perform after wheels stop and they wait until vehicle is in a safe state
-
#1493
by
christra1
on 01 Dec, 2008 17:08
-
Followup:
1) I learned from your anwer that it is possible to perform the reentry proc manually. But what about the Alpha?
From what I know alpha is about 40° from EI and is reduced slowly after some while. Isnt it very difficult to perform roll reversals from side to side manually at the exact proper moment and(!) maintaining alpha of exactly 40° at the same time if (and to make it even worse) the pitch/elevons trim is out of order (e.g. due to some hydraulic problems)? What I mean: To maintain the correct alpha only by hand for a 1 h reentry return...is that really possible...?
[...]
KR
Susan
Flying the shuttle manually is slightly different from "normal" aircrafts. If you push or pull your Rotational Hand Controler out of detent and point your nose somewhere, the nose stays there. Like "point and go". That is the reason why they have to push the nose down actively after main gear touch down. Otherwise the DAP would try to keep the nose (up) where it was.
To follow the preprogrammed flightpath during entry, the commander and pilot have attitude error needles on their ADI display. In simple words, they have to keep the needles centered. That is not always as simple as it sounds, because a roll reversal is a combined movement around all axes.
If they have trim problems, then the body flap is out of order. But the DAP would fly it untrimmed. Would mean:you probably need a steady deflection of the elevons to keep the shuttle on course. That results in a little more drag, but there is more than enough energy available. Anyway, you don't need muscles to keep the shuttle aligned because of my first paragraph above.
-
#1494
by
I14R10
on 01 Dec, 2008 17:10
-
This is not really a question, but... If NASA decides to stop shuttle program in 2010 as planned, could Leonardo be modified so it would be another module on ISS? It would be great to have Leonardo as some kind of living room for ISS astronauts.
-
#1495
by
Jorge
on 01 Dec, 2008 17:18
-
This is not really a question, but... If NASA decides to stop shuttle program in 2010 as planned, could Leonardo be modified so it would be another module on ISS? It would be great to have Leonardo as some kind of living room for ISS astronauts.
Discussed in another thread.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=7557.0
-
#1496
by
Finn
on 01 Dec, 2008 18:59
-
I followed the STS-126 entry checklist yesterday, and found the "Underburn" page (FS 3-33). In case of an underburn, the possible landing sites are
- west coast: Edwards (EDW), White Sands (NOR), Goose Bay (YYR).
- east coast: Kennedy (KSC), Gander (YQX), and "INN".
What airport is INN? I assume it's not Innsbruck, Austria?
-
#1497
by
usn_skwerl
on 01 Dec, 2008 23:35
-
Hi,
I know that shuttle landings are mostly "first class". But do you guys who deal yourselves with this stunning stuff for a long time remember for a "not so perfect" landing of a STS-shuttle-mission (due to any reasons...winds etc.) at KSC/EDW?
If so which STS was it...?
Thanks very much!
KR
Susan
STS-3's landing was a bit exciting. I don't know if others have been less than nominal since.
-
#1498
by
Webhamster
on 02 Dec, 2008 03:40
-
Hi,
I know that shuttle landings are mostly "first class". But do you guys who deal yourselves with this stunning stuff for a long time remember for a "not so perfect" landing of a STS-shuttle-mission (due to any reasons...winds etc.) at KSC/EDW?
If so which STS was it...?
Thanks very much!
KR
Susan
STS-3's landing was a bit exciting. I don't know if others have been less than nominal since.
STS-37 landed 1600 feet short of the runway threshold due to an incorrect call on the winds (and other factors).
See story here. Fortunately it was on the dry lakebed at Edwards so nobody outside of NASA really noticed. On TV it looked fine. At KSC coming up that short would probably have been fatal.
Wayne Hale also posted a
blog entry about the problems with STS-31's landing.
-
#1499
by
Complex39
on 02 Dec, 2008 10:11
-
I have a question about the ejector seats that were fitted in Columbia for the first few flights. How exactly did the ejection sequence work? On a normal aircraft the canopy will either shatter or be jettisoned prior to the seat being fired upwards. How did this work in the shuttle? Obviously there is no canopy above the crew - just panels of instruments and switches!
