LIVE: STS-120 Flight Day 10 - MT/OBSS Ops - EVA-4 Preps

[Chris Bergin]

Flight Day 10.

L2: Lots and lots and lots of Solar Array Repair images, presentations - tradeoffs and plan - with more to come on specifics as they plan it etc. Will update

Obvious element of the day is EVA-4 prep, with Friday looking good at present.

EPlan:
You will be maneuvering the SSRMS into a MT Translation configuration.
The Ground will then perform a MT translation to WS3.
You will then grapple, unberth, and maneuver the OBSS to a MT Translation configuration.
The Ground will then perform a MT Translation back to WS8.
Also there will be a Robotics Conference to discuss the plan & Robotics procedures for EVA4.

[generic_handle_42]

Here is the updated (RevI) NASA TV schedule for today:

[nathan.moeller]

Forgive me if this has been asked already, but has anyone heard any details about the change in trajectory for Discovery's re-entry next week?  She's coming in over the American mainland instead of the Caribbean.  They say it will allow more landing opportunities, but I'm curious to see exactly where she'll be flying.  If she overflies Texas, I'll probably have a good chance of seeing her

[generic_handle_42]

PAO reporting that a new version of the schedule is imminent.  I will post it in my previous post when that becomes available.

[Chris Bergin]

Oh for pity's sake.

Wake up song is "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" by some 80s band.

[generic_handle_42]

Good morning Discovery!

Wake up song was for the entire crew from the training team.

[Chris Bergin]

4:18am Central is the MT from Site 8 to Site 3 for the OBSS, to grapple 7:38am

5:15am will be the EVA overview (or today, the PAO guy keeps saying tomorrow and Friday alterantively!)

MSB for Thursday at 1pm Central.

[jdeber]

I had a question regarding the OBSS heaters and temperature management.

My understanding is that the sensors on the boom have a fairly short life span if the boom isn't receiving power to operate its heaters, and that the SSRMS can't supply power to it through its grapple fixture.

So, would it be possible to use an "extension cord" to power the OBSS while it is being grappled by the SSRMS? In other words, could you string a cable of some sort from the OBSS back to the station (or Shuttle), and power the heaters that way?

I don't know how standard the various power connectors are (or how standard the voltages are), so I don't know where you could connect a cable. I was unclear as to whether the OBSS will be powered while it is left up at the station (between the two Shuttle flights), or if it will have its sensors removed for that stay, but if it is being powered, that implies that it is possible to run its heaters off of an external power connector on the ISS (a PDGF?). Is there a special cable that hasn't been launched yet, or could they use something that's already up there to make that connection? Do they have spare wiring up there, or have they not had the weight budget to bring much up?

Anyway, sorry if this is a silly question...

Cheers,
Jonathan

[generic_handle_42]

FD 10 Execute Package is now up: http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/195553main_fd10exec.pdf

[j2_]

I notice a few blank spots in the flight plan for a some of the crew. Are they trying to save time for some activity that hasn't been determined yet, or is it time off?

[generic_handle_42]

j2_ - 1/11/2007  12:53 AM

I notice a few blank spots in the flight plan for a some of the crew. Are they trying to save time for some activity that hasn't been determined yet, or is it time off?

Most definitely not time off.   It is time that will be allotted to various tasks (EVA prep, tool construction, etc...).  This will occur at the discretion of mission control.

[Andy L]

jdeber - 31/10/2007  11:24 PM

So, would it be possible to use an "extension cord" to power the OBSS while it is being grappled by the SSRMS? In other words, could you string a cable of some sort from the OBSS back to the station (or Shuttle), and power the heaters that way?
Cheers,
Jonathan

No, a) because such a thing doesn't exist, b) if it was possible, they'd of thought of it, c) time, it's have to be a and b for it to work for c.

[Andy L]

j2_ - 31/10/2007  11:53 PM

I notice a few blank spots in the flight plan for a some of the crew. Are they trying to save time for some activity that hasn't been determined yet, or is it time off?

To be allocated. Will not be time off, as per NASA TV.

[ItsyAndy]

nathan.moeller - 1/11/2007  4:37 AM

Forgive me if this has been asked already, but has anyone heard any details about the change in trajectory for Discovery's re-entry next week?  She's coming in over the American mainland instead of the Caribbean.  They say it will allow more landing opportunities, but I'm curious to see exactly where she'll be flying.  If she overflies Texas, I'll probably have a good chance of seeing her

It's confirmed and approved from the MMT in the Execute Package just published (see above), so they will go for a descending deorbit with a daylight landing. They will swift and change the crew sleeping schedule in the next days accordingly.

Hope you get to see her! Take photos for us :-)

Ciao.

[Justin Space]

Certain lack of images in the last 24 hours. Here's a reminder

[Justin Space]

[generic_handle_42]

Still waiting on Rev I to the NASA TV schedule, but here's a pretty picture in the meantime.

[generic_handle_42]

The updated NASA TV schedule (Rev I) has just been posted.  I have updated my original post of the schedule (back a page) to reflect this.  For those who don't want to go looking back through the thread, here is another copy of the revisions.

Keep in mind that the current schedule only shows events through FD 10 (today).  The extended schedule to the end of the mission is expected sometime later today.

EDIT: (for bragging rights) I beat the PAO announcement of the new schedule by 4 minutes!

[redgryphon]

For Orbit 138, shouldn't that be "Mobile Transporter Transfer to Worksite *3* to grapple OBSS"? Worksite 8 is its current position.

[redgryphon]

EVA-4 to Saturday. Still lots of EVA detail to work on says MCC

MT transfer still on for today. Parts of spacewalk procedure will be sent up to crew during the day for review.

[generic_handle_42]

redgryphon - 1/11/2007  2:02 AM

For Orbit 138, shouldn't that be "Mobile Transporter Transfer to Worksite *3* to grapple OBSS"? Worksite 8 is its current position.

Yeah, I believe you are correct.  But hey, I don't write the thing, I just post it!  :cool:

Good catch, by the way!

[uko]

I don't know but the folks in MCC seem to be really nervous today

[uko]

And once again.. SATURDAY is the big day!!! The procedures and tools are not ready yet.

[ETEE]

Why would they grapple the OBSS two days early?  Surely that could be left for another 24 hours at least.

[uko]

It can be that they just want to test that the SSRMS can grapple and move the OBSS. But it is also possible that after the decision to move EVA4 to saturday, they don't grapple it until tomorrow.

[gordo]

uko - 1/11/2007  9:51 AM

It can be that they just want to test that the SSRMS can grapple and move the OBSS. But it is also possible that after the decision to move EVA4 to saturday, they don't grapple it until tomorrow.

The did that already this mission to get Columbus out of the bay...were you not watching?

[DaveS]

gordo - 1/11/2007  11:49 AM
The did that already this mission to get Columbus out of the bay...were you not watching?

Don't you mean Node 2 AKA "Harmony"? Columbus is the priority of the next mission.

[DaveS]

EVA-4 tools and repair equipment is being manufactured in Node 2 right now by Pambo and Zambo.

[ckiki lwai]

busy on making the tools
they are packing aluminum strips in some kind of foil/tape, and attaching it to something out of view

[DaveS]

ckiki lwai - 1/11/2007  12:03 PM
they are packing aluminum strips in some kind of foil/tape, and attaching it to something out of view

That would be insulating them with Kapton tape.

[triddirt]

Just slightly off topic on a slow day for us "1G bound" crew members... Dan Tani's first attempt at the ISS "Worm Report" was not the smooth delivery of our Jokester Clay Anderson.. Add this to the "We'll sure miss Clay" Thread

[ckiki lwai]

Pambo and Zambo are working on the tools again.
They are cutting the edges of the kapton tape

[psloss]

triddirt - 1/11/2007  7:41 AM

Just slightly off topic on a slow day for us "1G bound" crew members... Dan Tani's first attempt at the ISS "Worm Report" was not the smooth delivery of our Jokester Clay Anderson.. Add this to the "We'll sure miss Clay" Thread

It wouldn't be as amusing if everyone was like Clay.  Nothing wrong with a little variety.

[ckiki lwai]

smoothing out the edges

[Roci Stone]

Are the "plans" tor these tools out here someplace? I'd love to see them.

Roci

[ckiki lwai]

at the moment they are planning make 20 of these aluminum strips with, they will be connected with wires, and they will be putt through the holes in the solar panel.

[Syntax]

Looks like they are peeling potatoes

[Mike_1179]

I understand how the "cufflinks" go through aluminum-reinforced holes, but how do they plan on applying tension on the strip that connects two adjacent attachment points?  Will the blanket be "slack" between these attachment points or will they pull the two holes close together (without touching the blanket) to try to retain the blanket shape?

I suppose my question can be rephrased: Are they planning on approximating the edges that separated, or will they simply put a strap in place across the tear to take the load off the blanket when it is fully tensioned, essentially just a stress shield?

Like was said a few days ago, it doesn't have to look good, it has to produce power and be stable

[ckiki lwai]

here is a good snapshot of of how they look like.

[Jim]

every work bench should have a vacuum cleaner

[ckiki lwai]

Mike_1179 - 1/11/2007  1:24 PM

I understand how the "cufflinks" go through aluminum-reinforced holes, but how do they plan on applying tension on the strip that connects two adjacent attachment points?  Will the blanket be "slack" between these attachment points or will they pull the two holes close together (without touching the blanket) to try to retain the blanket shape?

I suppose my question can be rephrased: Are they planning on approximating the edges that separated, or will they simply put a strap in place across the tear to take the load off the blanket when it is fully tensioned, essentially just a stress shield?

Like was said a few days ago, it doesn't have to look good, it has to produce power and be stable

I could be totally wrong, but I have something like this in mind:

[dawei]

ckiki lwai - 1/11/2007  9:19 PM

at the moment they are planning make 20 of these aluminum strips with, they will be connected with wires, and they will be putt through the holes in the solar panel.

With the eye protection it looks like they are wearing masks.  Somebody should tell them Halloween is over!  

[ckiki lwai]

making holes in the strips

[ckiki lwai]

Pambo wants to try to put some holes in it too.
(Although she doesn't seem very successful in doing it)

[iloco]

Roci Stone - 1/11/2007  7:14 AM

Are the "plans" tor these tools out here someplace? I'd love to see them.

Roci

I'm pretty sure you could find them on L2.

[Mike_1179]

ckiki lwai - 1/11/2007  8:41 AM


I could be totally wrong, but I have something like this in mind:

That part is clear, I was wondering how they plan on getting the slack out of the blue element in your sketch.  If that blue element is a metal plate, how do you shorten it to make the distance between the two "cufflinks" the right length?

[Chris Bergin]

iloco - 1/11/2007  2:22 PM

Roci Stone - 1/11/2007  7:14 AM

Are the "plans" tor these tools out here someplace? I'd love to see them.

Roci

I'm pretty sure you could find them on L2.

For the tools, not yet, but soon. We don't want to be throwing e-mails at people asking for stuff when they've got enough on as it is. As soon as we do grab stuff, L2 and an article for those not on L2.

[steve_slitheen]

How did Bono get up there?

ckiki lwai - 1/11/2007  1:19 PM

at the moment they are planning make 20 of these aluminum strips with, they will be connected with wires, and they will be putt through the holes in the solar panel.

 :cool:

[daj24]

Can someone pls describe what the difference between ascending and descending deorbit opportunities are?

[joncz]

Ascending is when the orbiting vehicle's ground track is from the south to the north (for a prograde orbit, it will be from SW to NE).

Ascending entry opportunities have the shuttle's ground track coming over the Gulf of Mexico.  Descending entry opportunities have the ground track going across the continental US.

[ckiki lwai]

Mike_1179 - 1/11/2007  2:30 PM

ckiki lwai - 1/11/2007  8:41 AM


I could be totally wrong, but I have something like this in mind:

That part is clear, I was wondering how they plan on getting the slack out of the blue element in your sketch.  If that blue element is a metal plate, how do you shorten it to make the distance between the two "cufflinks" the right length?

In my picture the blue part is a wire, I think they will cut it at the right length.
Although it's not that simple, they are going to use several wires, I don't know how that will work.

[Ronsmytheiii]

Well I was trying to upload pictures, but it isnt working right now

[Jim]

Simplified explanation, is looking at an orbit trace on a map, descending is going from a northern latitude, ascending is going from southern latitude into KSC

[daj24]

Thank you.  It's amazing how obvious things are after you know them! :bleh:

[ace007]

Since they will be cancelling the last EVA which was scheduled to remove the final connectors from PMA2 so it can be moved after the shuttle leaves do you think the station crew will need to do a walk before they do the PMA and harmony move to finish those disconnects.  Obviously Harmony and the PMA need to be moved before the December launch with Columbus.

[Ronsmytheiii]

ace007 - 1/11/2007  10:10 AM

Since they will be canceling the last EVA which was scheduled to remove the final connectors from PMA2 so it can be moved after the shuttle leaves do you think the station crew will need to do a walk before they do the PMA and harmony move to finish those disconnects.  Obviously Harmony and the PMA need to be moved before the December launch with Columbus.

It has already been announced that EVA-5 will be mover to the stage, or will be from the stage.  Something with stage.  Anyways, yes the station crew will be doing that.

[AntiKev]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but EVA-5 was always going to be station crew.  Now that it's been moved to the stage, along with the extension of STS-120 by a day (so far) makes the timeline that much more critical for STS-122 in December.  From what I've read from Chris and other sources it looks like Atlantis processing won't be the constraint, rather the stage activities will drive the timeline.  It's going to be a busy 5 weeks up there.

[ckiki lwai]

a snapshot of the wire

[Chris Bergin]

AntiKev - 1/11/2007  3:30 PM

 From what I've read from Chris and other sources it looks like Atlantis processing won't be the constraint, rather the stage activities will drive the timeline.  It's going to be a busy 5 weeks up there.

That's correct!

[Chris Bergin]

Whole load of stuff going into L2. First thing that stands out is the consideration of a docked late inspection prior to EVA-4, due to continued worries over OBSS damage.

[Lee Jay]

Chris Bergin - 1/11/2007  8:39 AM

AntiKev - 1/11/2007  3:30 PM

 From what I've read from Chris and other sources it looks like Atlantis processing won't be the constraint, rather the stage activities will drive the timeline.  It's going to be a busy 5 weeks up there.

That's correct!

I suspect that depends on which set of activities has the most trouble.  If the stage stuff goes well, and Atlantis starts to encounter bugs (leaky valves, hatch limit switches, you know the type), I would think the situation could easily reverse.

[uko]

Chris Bergin - 1/11/2007  9:48 AM

Whole load of stuff going into L2. First thing that stands out is the consideration of a docked late inspection prior to EVA-4, due to continued worries over OBSS damage.

Sorry, but have to say this.. Wow, cool!!!  :cool:

[DaveS]

uko - 1/11/2007  3:58 PM

Chris Bergin - 1/11/2007  9:48 AM

Whole load of stuff going into L2. First thing that stands out is the consideration of a docked late inspection prior to EVA-4, due to continued worries over OBSS damage.

Sorry, but have to say this.. Wow, cool!!!  :cool:

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a docked late inspection constrained to the port side only as Destiny and PMA-2 is in the way for a inspection of the starboard side?

[Mike_1179]

Would the purpose of a docked late inspection be to get OBSS focused-inspection-ish data on the suspect MMOD hit, or a full suite late inspection?

[Chris Bergin]

DaveS - 1/11/2007  4:03 PM

uko - 1/11/2007  3:58 PM

Chris Bergin - 1/11/2007  9:48 AM

Whole load of stuff going into L2. First thing that stands out is the consideration of a docked late inspection prior to EVA-4, due to continued worries over OBSS damage.

Sorry, but have to say this.. Wow, cool!!!  :cool:

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a docked late inspection constrained to the port side only as Destiny and PMA-2 is in the way for a inspection of the starboard side?

I don't know Dave, still recieving. The docked Late Inspection option is mentioned a lot on the main doc on now (writing it up, non L2ers.) Again, this is coming in live, so we need to keep screening through this all to see status.

[ckiki lwai]

lost the idea what there doing, but I think they are taping the wires

[ApolloLee]

ckiki lwai - 1/11/2007  9:06 AM

lost the idea what there doing, but I think they are taping the wires

Probably doesn't need to be said again here, but this is why we want to put people in space, not machines....

[ace007]

I think we are all getting a good picture of how they will use the strips to hook through the holes/grommets in the panels.  It seems like they are planning on reenforcing across the whole width of the panel.  I'm just curious how will the strip be attached through the hole especially since in most of it he will only have access to one side.

[ckiki lwai]

ace007 - 1/11/2007  5:19 PM

I think we are all getting a good picture of how they will use the strips to hook through the holes/grommets in the panels.  It seems like they are planning on reenforcing across the whole width of the panel.  I'm just curious how will the strip be attached through the hole especially since in most of it he will only have access to one side.

How big are the holes? If Scott would miss it, the array will be bouncing around, and he will have to wait until it stablizes again.
Scott will really need nerves of steel for this one

[eeergo]

CAPCOM has just said a little while ago that the Node outfitting tasks for the docked portion of the mission is already completed. Lots of things going on, but they're still accomplishing the main planned tasks.

[Real Madrid]

George HW bush are in the mission control room

[DaveS]

Real Madrid - 1/11/2007  5:44 PM

George HW bush are in the mission control room

It's actually called Flight Control Room or FCR for short. It's pronounced "ficker". The previous MCC control room was called Mission Operations Control Room or MOCR for short. That is pronounced "mocker".

[generic_handle_42]

VIP call with George H.W. Bush is about to begin.

[ckiki lwai]

George Bush senior doesn't seem very interested in how they are gonna repair the solar array!!
I can't wait to get some good explanation from the MSB how it will work!

[stockman]

Real Madrid - 1/11/2007  5:44 PM

It's actually called Flight Control Room or FCR for short. It's pronounced "ficker".

wow,, thats a dangerous acronym especially if you are tired or in a bad mood and not thinking clearly.. ahahh..  

[Real Madrid]

what did  they?

[generic_handle_42]

Flight Director Bush Sr.

[chksix]

They are doing a great job in explaining everything

[Chris Bergin]

First run of the article on the latest we've got in L2, a lot more to go through yet:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5272

[generic_handle_42]

Mrs. Bush is getting a quick lesson in orbital mechanics.

[Chris Bergin]

The former president seems very interested, which is always good.

[generic_handle_42]

Chris Bergin - 1/11/2007  1:04 PM

The former president seems very interested, which is always good.

Yeah, but it would be better if the word "former" was omitted from that statement.  We need more current politicians interested, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Mr. Bush now in the station control room.

[generic_handle_42]

Bush is getting a first hand demonstration of the "cufflinks".

[AntiKev]

Chris Bergin - 1/11/2007  12:57 PM

First run of the article on the latest we've got in L2, a lot more to go through yet:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5272

Hate to do cheerleading on the live thread (Chris has slapped my hands for it before) but after reading the article this is what I want to see more of from NASA.  Work the problem on orbit rather than leaving it and waiting for what could be months to develop a "by-the-book" solution.  This is what space exploration is about, moving into the unknown and taking a few risks in order to further our knowledge.

[JimO]

DaveS - 1/11/2007  11:47 AM
The previous MCC control room was called Mission Operations Control Room or MOCR for short. That is pronounced "mocker".

I would spell the pronunciation guide as 'MOAK-er' to signify the 'long O' sound,
not to rhyme it with 'clocker' or 'docker'.

[pechisbeque]

generic_handle_42 - 1/11/2007  6:07 PM

Mr. Bush now in the station control room.

It would have been interesting if we could have also had audio from the Station Control Room.
It's always interesting to see how people with high knowledge on a subject try to explain it to someone who knows little or nothing about it.

[rocketguy101]

This may have been asked before, but are there any spare thermal blankets they could wrap the OBSS sensors with to help protect them?  ISTR that on previous EVAs, blankets have been removed during assembly...are they just discarded?  Up until this mission, I did not know this forum existed, so my knowledge of details of previous missions has been sketchy, to say the least.

[catdlr]

ckiki lwai - 1/11/2007  9:36 AM

How big are the holes? If Scott would miss it, the array will be bouncing around, and he will have to wait until it stablizes again.
Scott will really need nerves of steel for this one

I just saw this picture on the NASA site showing what could be the procedure of inserting the "cufflink" through a grommet.

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/195531main_jsc2007e095027_hires.jpg

[ckiki lwai]

catdlr - 1/11/2007  6:26 PM

ckiki lwai - 1/11/2007  9:36 AM

How big are the holes? If Scott would miss it, the array will be bouncing around, and he will have to wait until it stablizes again.
Scott will really need nerves of steel for this one

I just saw this picture on the NASA site showing what could be the procedure of inserting the "cufflink" through a grommet.

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/195531main_jsc2007e095027_hires.jpg

Thanks, it seems to have 1 or 2 cm clearing, so it will need a steady hand

[TrueBlueWitt]

pechisbeque - 1/11/2007  1:17 PM

generic_handle_42 - 1/11/2007  6:07 PM

Mr. Bush now in the station control room.

It would have been interesting if we could have also had audio from the Station Control Room.
It's always interesting to see how people with high knowledge on a subject try to explain it to someone who knows little or nothing about it.

Wasn't HW given some oversight role w.r.t. NASA when he was VP back in teh 80's?  That and he's a former WWII combat pilot.  Not to mention a whole lot more intelligent than W.

[Chris Bergin]

MSB in five minutes.

AntiKev - 1/11/2007  6:09 PM

Chris Bergin - 1/11/2007  12:57 PM

First run of the article on the latest we've got in L2, a lot more to go through yet:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5272

Hate to do cheerleading on the live thread (Chris has slapped my hands for it before) but after reading the article this is what I want to see more of from NASA.  Work the problem on orbit rather than leaving it and waiting for what could be months to develop a "by-the-book" solution.  This is what space exploration is about, moving into the unknown and taking a few risks in order to further our knowledge.

Thanks, that is exactly what I want people to get out of this and our coverage in general.

[Chris Bergin]

No Mike S at the briefing.

Derek Hassmann:

"We were given the direction yesterday by Mike S just to work on the Solar Array as our number 1 priority. The goal was a spacewalk on Friday. As the products came together, we made a decision last night (midnightish) that were weren't going to be ready.

"We felt comfortable that we could call for another day.

"Would be a full court press (?? - Basketball?) to get to Friday anyway.

"The robotic aspects is what took the time to come together."

[Chris Bergin]

"We've had teams off working and we just couldn't get there for Friday.

"The hinge repair itself (needs work). Once we came up with the idea, there was testing required to give the right answer, but we're working towards a good solution."

[Chris Bergin]

"We were able to place prelim robotics onboard today, so they have study material, and we'll make another assessment tomorrow."

[Chris Bergin]

Dina Contella: "These people (teams) are working day and night.

"On the third EVA, Scott's temp sensor was reading a little high. Research shows it's been trending up over the past few spacewalks" (presentation on L2 by the way).

"The EVA Scott is going to do next is a resized spacesuit, and he's ready to go.

"Last spacewalk, Wheel's right glove had a hole in the vectran. Risk mitigation includes changing out the glove, he's back-up, back-up glove. The right glove needed a little extra re-size."

[Chris Bergin]

"We'll be wearing the overglove on EVA-4" (presentations on L2 ) Cool!

Scott can remove it once on the boom - risk mitigation factor.

Foot restraint may be the cause of the glove damage.

[Chris Bergin]

Heh, images you'll of seen here before of the SSRMS and OBSS being shown at the presser.

[Chris Bergin]

"We believe there's a connection between the hinge and the smaller damage."

[Chris Bergin]

First job for Scott is to clear the snag. That's what's causing the panels to bunch. He's going to try and bend the wire, or work a grommet, all to see if he can pull the panels down.

Then he'll install a cufflink.

[Chris Bergin]

Five cufflinks and plates for the repair.

[ckiki lwai]

Seems like my drawing earlier this day was correct  

[ckiki lwai]

So the length of the wires will have to be very precise:
- to long and they don't take the loads
- to short and it will increase overall loads on the solar array

[mwfair]

Very interesting repair principle.  Essentially, they are not fixing the tear itself, they are using the 'cuff link' wire to connect good panels on either side of the bad hinge.  So will the array then be extended to complete length and then tensioned?  How much tension is nominally on the arrays?

[Chris Bergin]

Media going after the shock hazards (rightly so too as it's a risky deal).

"We don't expect a current to jump in open space."

[punkboi]

mwfair - 1/11/2007 11:30 AM How much tension is nominally on the arrays?

I read earlier that around 75 pounds of force is exerted on the arrays to make them rigid

[Chris Bergin]

"As of this afternoon, we have completed all the outfitting required prior to relocation of Node 2".

[ShuttleDiscovery]

Chris Bergin - 1/11/2007  7:33 PM

"As of this afternoon, we have completed all the outfitting required prior to relocation of Node 2".

That's something..

[Chris Bergin]

ISS has all the power they need right now. Long term they need one or other other (repair and fixed arrays).

[Andy_Small]

David Wolf is a great spokesmen for the Astronaut Corps!

[Chris Bergin]

ShuttleDiscovery - 1/11/2007  7:36 PM

Chris Bergin - 1/11/2007  7:33 PM

"As of this afternoon, we have completed all the outfitting required prior to relocation of Node 2".

That's something..

Bought them back a day or two from the timeline also.

[Chris Bergin]

"There comes times where higher risks need to be taken (for this repair)"

[rocketguy101]

ckiki lwai - 1/11/2007 1:29 PM So the length of the wires will have to be very precise: - to long and they don't take the loads - to short and it will increase overall loads on the solar array

Wonder if Scott was a Boy Scout? (his NASA bio didn't say, or  I missed it)  If he had his Pioneering merit badge, he could adjust the lenghts   They could attach two "shorties" to make a longer wire if necessary,  perhaps tie a knot to shorten one??

[Chris Bergin]

Right now, no EVA-5, undock FD14. If the repair is not successful, look at consumables, maybe do a short EVA-5.

[ShuttleDiscovery]

Chris Bergin - 1/11/2007  7:42 PM

Right now, no EVA-5, undock FD14. If the repair is not successful, look at consumables, maybe do a short EVA-5.

I guess there can be less time between EVA-4 and 5 as it's by Peggy and Yuri, correct?

[ckiki lwai]

risks involved: normally an astronaut has to be able to return to the airlock in 30 min, this will not be possible during this EVA

[mwfair]

As stated in the MSB, the array can't be safed, the cells produce voltage when light shines!  However, they have 45minutes of no light, so can Scott touch the array during orbital night?

[ckiki lwai]

difficulty rated a 7,5 to 10 because it is very mentally demanding

[ngilmore]

Robotic ops: SSRMS to move from work station 8 to work station 3. Will pick up OBSS. Will hand off to SRMS so it has power. Will translate back to work station 8. Will pick up OBSS from SRMS.

My question: Since the SRMS can normally take out the OBSS, and since according to this plan it can hand off to the SSRMS at work station 8, why does the SSRMS mobile transport have to move back and forth in the first place. What constraint prevents the SRMS from taking the OBSS out on its own?

[ckiki lwai]

mwfair - 1/11/2007  7:45 PM

As stated in the MSB, the array can't be safed, the cells produce voltage when light shines!  However, they have 45minutes of no light, so can Scott touch the array during orbital night?

Your question got answered
He says the protection is adequate so he sees no reason not to continue the activities in daylight

edit:spelling

[Wisi]

Chris Bergin - 1/11/2007  8:42 PM

Right now, no EVA-5, undock FD14.

Does that mean, landing day is FD16?

[steve_slitheen]

ckiki lwai - 1/11/2007  7:54 PM

mwfair - 1/11/2007  7:45 PM

As stated in the MSB, the array can't be safed, the cells produce voltage when light shines!  However, they have 45minutes of no light, so can Scott touch the array during orbital night?

Your question got answered
He says the protection is adequate so he sees no reason not to continue the activities in daylight

edit:spelling

So what kind of voltages and currents are we talking about here?

[DwightM]

ShuttleDiscovery - 1/11/2007  10:43 AM

Chris Bergin - 1/11/2007  7:42 PM

Right now, no EVA-5, undock FD14. If the repair is not successful, look at consumables, maybe do a short EVA-5.

I guess there can be less time between EVA-4 and 5 as it's by Peggy and Yuri, correct?

They aren't referring to the original EVA-5 in this case, they're talking about a repair follow-up if the initial repair isn't successful.  As for who would go, that would be TBD.

[kimmern123]

Yes, that's the plan, with a late afternoon landing.

[mwfair]

I find this whole topic of the problem at hand, this repair, and especially this briefing,  to be a good counterpoint to the cry for 'robotic exploration only'.  Seems to me this sort of situation is inevitable in any complex mission.  
Looking at the procedures sent to ISS for fabricating the cuff links, its amazing to see how much general use equipment and kits full of random parts are stored on station.  hundreds of pounds of stuff waiting, just like I have in my garage, 'in case I might need it someday'.  Seems like that sort of thing is neglected by many analyses of 'better' systems for VSE.  I for one easily forget how much contingency is needed in any mission design.

[hutchel]

steve_slitheen - 1/11/2007  3:02 PM

ckiki lwai - 1/11/2007  7:54 PM

mwfair - 1/11/2007  7:45 PM

As stated in the MSB, the array can't be safed, the cells produce voltage when light shines!  However, they have 45minutes of no light, so can Scott touch the array during orbital night?

Your question got answered
He says the protection is adequate so he sees no reason not to continue the activities in daylight

edit:spelling

So what kind of voltages and currents are we talking about here?

I heard him say - think it was 100 VDC - no mention of AMPS though - Remember Volts don't kill Volts with sufficient AMPs kill.

Lee

[ChrisC]

ngilmore - 1/11/2007  2:53 PM
Since the SRMS can normally take out the OBSS

Stop right there, it can't.  Lately this is FAQ #1   Do some searching in this forum or the web in general.  Hint:  PMA2 and Destiny obstructions.

FAQ #2 is "why is Harmony in a temporary location?"  :/

[AnimatorRob]

ngilmore - 1/11/2007  2:53 PM

Robotic ops: SSRMS to move from work station 8 to work station 3. Will pick up OBSS. Will hand off to SRMS so it has power. Will translate back to work station 8. Will pick up OBSS from SRMS.

My question: Since the SRMS can normally take out the OBSS, and since according to this plan it can hand off to the SSRMS at work station 8, why does the SSRMS mobile transport have to move back and forth in the first place. What constraint prevents the SRMS from taking the OBSS out on its own?

I would have to guess there are clearance problems with grasping the OBSS with SRMS while docked.

- Oops, Chris beat me to it.

[uko]

Probably this is explained somewhere already, but I cant find it.. so I wonder where are the holes, they push the cufflinks thru? I dont remember seeing any holes in the solar array blankets, so do they cut the holes themselves?

[Chris Bergin]

uko - 1/11/2007  8:33 PM

Probably this is explained somewhere already, but I cant find it.. so I wonder where are the holes, they push the cufflinks thru? I dont remember seeing any holes in the solar array blankets, so do they cut the holes themselves?

We have a big set of super hi res images on L2 showing how this will be done. I'll share one here:

[mwfair]

hutchel - 1/11/2007  2:12 PM

steve_slitheen - 1/11/2007  3:02 PM

So what kind of voltages and currents are we talking about here?

I heard him say - think it was 100 VDC - no mention of AMPS though - Remember Volts don't kill Volts with sufficient AMPs kill.

Lee

True, but I = V/R.  In this case, R is 100kohms on a good day for human body, up to 1000 ohms for someone who's been sweating.  This could result in up to 100mA, which is enough to cause a muscle spasm.  
They aren't joking when they talk about not touching the array.  Thats why they are using 18 inch needle nose pliers, taping everything, and not even thinking about moving from one side of the solar blanket to the other (hence to cuff links).

[mwfair]

Chris Bergin - 1/11/2007  2:38 PM

uko - 1/11/2007  8:33 PM

Probably this is explained somewhere already, but I cant find it.. so I wonder where are the holes, they push the cufflinks thru? I dont remember seeing any holes in the solar array blankets, so do they cut the holes themselves?

We have a big set of super hi res images on L2 showing how this will be done. I'll share one here:

The existing holes can also be seen (almost, they are obscured by the glare and low contrast) in the  hi-res images of the tear, e.g in post 206351.  (Thanks, Rich, I hadn't seen them till you pointed them out.)

[swhitt]

Remember Volts don't kill Volts with sufficient AMPs kill.

True, but I = V/R.  In this case, R is 100kohms on a good day for human body, up to 1000 ohms for someone who's been sweating.  This could result in up to 100mA, which is enough to cause a muscle spasm.  

Scott will be insulated inside the space suit. The bladder alone would take the hit, let alone the layers of mylar and other materials. While human shock is important to prevent, I don't think it is the main issue.

The problem I would think is spiking the control circuits of the suit, or the spike travelling down the OBSS and tagging the SSRMS control circuits.

Then who knows how far up the chain the burnouts would be.

Shut down the suit and the SSRMS and you have a totally different problem.

[Mike_1179]

mwfair - 1/11/2007  3:44 PM

Chris Bergin - 1/11/2007  2:38 PM

uko - 1/11/2007  8:33 PM

Probably this is explained somewhere already, but I cant find it.. so I wonder where are the holes, they push the cufflinks thru? I dont remember seeing any holes in the solar array blankets, so do they cut the holes themselves?

We have a big set of super hi res images on L2 showing how this will be done. I'll share one here:

The existing holes can also be seen (almost, they are obscured by the glare and low contrast) in the  hi-res images of the tear, e.g in post 206351.  (Thanks, Rich, I hadn't seen them till you pointed them out.)

The holes were used to keep the blankets in their boxes during launch.  Back on the ground, the blankets were folded up in the boxes like an accordian.  There were holes along the blankets that lined up when they were folded and these holes are reinforced with aluminum.  When in the boxes before launch, a large pin was placed through the boxes and through these holes in the folded blankets to take up and shear loads from the vibration of launch.  One of the first steps before they were unfurled was to retract these pins.

It's just lucky that the blankets have metal-reinforced holes in each panel that were made to faciliate a launch restraint.  I guess it's lucky the same way that they have an OBSS to use as a work platform too...

[MKremer]

uko - 1/11/2007  2:33 PM

Probably this is explained somewhere already, but I cant find it.. so I wonder where are the holes, they push the cufflinks thru? I dont remember seeing any holes in the solar array blankets, so do they cut the holes themselves?

It was mentioned in yesterday's briefing - there are pins in the blanket boxes that fit thru the holes to help stabilize the folded blankets during launch. Then those pins are permantly retracted before the blanket box is unlatched and extended once the array is installed.

[stockman]

Ok I have a question on the repair effort spacewalk planned for saturday. Its apparent that one of the astronauts will be on the boom doing the physical threading of the cufflinks as they are called with the array. My question is what is the Role of the second spacewalker throughout this period? Is he simply a passive observer for safety sake or is there an integral role for him to play during this repair? Thank you in advance

[steve_slitheen]

Lee[/QUOTE]

True, but I = V/R.  In this case, R is 100kohms on a good day for human body, up to 1000 ohms for someone who's been sweating.  This could result in up to 100mA, which is enough to cause a muscle spasm.  
They aren't joking when they talk about not touching the array.  Thats why they are using 18 inch needle nose pliers, taping everything, and not even thinking about moving from one side of the solar blanket to the other (hence to cuff links).[/QUOTE]

OK, but what's the resistance of a spacesuit?  Surely the astronaut is well insulated by the suit, and the suit surface is dry.  Or is it conductive?

[DaveS]

steve_slitheen - 1/11/2007  9:03 PM
OK, but what's the resistance of a spacesuit?  Surely the astronaut is well insulated by the suit, and the suit surface is dry.  Or is it conductive?

It's conductive as there's a number of metal surfaces both on the outside and inside of the EMU.

[DwightM]

stockman - 1/11/2007  12:03 PM

Ok I have a question on the repair effort spacewalk planned for saturday. Its apparent that one of the astronauts will be on the boom doing the physical threading of the cufflinks as they are called with the array. My question is what is the Role of the second spacewalker throughout this period? Is he simply a passive observer for safety sake or is there an integral role for him to play during this repair? Thank you in advance

EV2 will play a critical role during SSRMS ops & the repair to watch guidance & clearance issues.  It's unlikely he'll be doing much else.

[sqoops]

DwightM - 1/11/2007  4:10 PM  

EV2 will play a critical role during SSRMS ops & the repair to watch guidance & clearance issues.  It's unlikely he'll be doing much else.

Aren't two EVs always required anyway, in the frightening case one must assist another?

[swhitt]

DaveS - 1/11/2007  1:10 PM
It's conductive as there's a number of metal surfaces both on the outside and inside of the EMU.

Yes, but are they connected? If they are electrically connected, then they would be thermally connected as well. That would kind of negate one of the purposes of the suit wouldn't it?

Insulated metal surfaces do not conduct electricity.

I think the water cooling would conduct, but only if there is a leak inside the suit.

[stockman]

sqoops - 1/11/2007  4:43 PM

DwightM - 1/11/2007  4:10 PM  

EV2 will play a critical role during SSRMS ops & the repair to watch guidance & clearance issues.  It's unlikely he'll be doing much else.

Aren't two EVs always required anyway, in the frightening case one must assist another?

I believe so. I assumed that he would fill that role for sure. I was just interested if he had any other duties while the repair effort is going on. Its not like he can physically assist but he can help spot for clearance issues as mentioned and other visual aids etc.

[davcbow]

I asked a question the other day; could the boom be attached to the station arm and could it reach, I got what seemed to me like a harsh "no" as a reply. So all I got to say about that is "I rest my case". I wish them the best of luck and a big "be careful". I know they can pull it off and be successful.

[ace007]

So when do we think we will know the schedule for the activities on Saturday.  If they start shifting their working schedule up to help with the daytime landing then maybe this spacewalk will be at a more decent hour to get up and watch.  It'll probably be worth it...

[Kel]

stockman - 1/11/2007  3:03 PM

Ok I have a question on the repair effort spacewalk planned for saturday. Its apparent that one of the astronauts will be on the boom doing the physical threading of the cufflinks as they are called with the array. My question is what is the Role of the second spacewalker throughout this period? Is he simply a passive observer for safety sake or is there an integral role for him to play during this repair? Thank you in advance

My understanding is......It will probably depend on what they find when they get out there. They are working up procedures for several different contingencies, so there will be several options available. As they mentioned in the briefing today, they still don't know exactly what is causing the hang up - and won't until Scott's helmet camera gets right up to the snag. Once they know what they're dealing with, they will make some decisions (rapidly) about what option to pursue.

[edkyle99]

steve_slitheen - 1/11/2007  2:02 PM

ckiki lwai - 1/11/2007  7:54 PM

mwfair - 1/11/2007  7:45 PM

As stated in the MSB, the array can't be safed, the cells produce voltage when light shines!  However, they have 45minutes of no light, so can Scott touch the array during orbital night?

Your question got answered
He says the protection is adequate so he sees no reason not to continue the activities in daylight

edit:spelling

So what kind of voltages and currents are we talking about here?

According to this paper,

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/RT/2003/6000/6920gustafson.html

Each Solar Array Wing has 82 strings of cells, which are connected together somehow to generate 124 volts DC power, although the voltage out on the Wings themselves can be as high as 160 volts.  Each string can produce an average of nearly 2.7 amperes of short circuit current.  

What I don't know is the electrical configuration that would present itself in a small work location on one of the wings.  I doubt that an astronaut can be exposed to the full 160 Volt DC potential when working at one spot, for example.

Differential charging may be a more important concern.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast13nov_1sidebar.htm

 - Ed Kyle

[Bret]

Who would have ever dreamed that we would have a former ER physician doing emergency surgery on a solar array?  Think Scott will be able to sleep Friday night?

[Bubbinski]

The TV schedule Rev. J is up on the nasa.gov website under http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/mission_schedule.html - it states that crew wakeup on Saturday is scheduled for 12:38 am Central and EVA start for 5:28 am Central.  I'll be awake, wide awake!

[Joffan]

Will the spacewalkers stay out there to observe the remaining extension of the solar wing after a successful repair?

[rdale]

ace007 - 1/11/2007  4:51 PM

So when do we think we will know the schedule for the activities on Saturday.

They have to send up the final documents before crew wakeup tomorrow - so anything too specific probably won't come for a bit yet...

[rdale]

Joffan - 1/11/2007  6:05 PM

Will the spacewalkers stay out there to observe the remaining extension of the solar wing after a successful repair?

It's desired - but again depends on the timing of everything. Asked near the end of the press conference.

[ETEE]

On EVA4, Wheels will have to get the camera they left outside during EVA3.

[bsegal]

Just listened to the briefing from earlier today - thanks John44.  There was a decent amount of discussion regarding how the guide wires might be dealt with if they had to cut it.  I'm surprised they didn't mention the most obvious solution to any concern about how it would reel back in and potentially catch - simply have EV2 cut the wire from the bottom of the blanket box to remove any reeling tension, then have EV1 cut out the snag with no risk at that point of the guide wire moving at all.  They already said the other day they don't need those guide wires for deploy - only retraction.  And we won't be retracting this array ever again.

[Speedracer]

bsegal - 1/11/2007  7:23 PM

Just listened to the briefing from earlier today - thanks John44.  There was a decent amount of discussion regarding how the guide wires might be dealt with if they had to cut it.  I'm surprised they didn't mention the most obvious solution to any concern about how it would reel back in and potentially catch - simply have EV2 cut the wire from the bottom of the blanket box to remove any reeling tension, then have EV1 cut out the snag with no risk at that point of the guide wire moving at all.  They already said the other day they don't need those guide wires for deploy - only retraction.  And we won't be retracting this array ever again.

Then you run the risk of entanglement with the wire getting snagged in the Astronaut's gear, another part of the array, the OBSS, etc.

He might not be able to wind it around from his position on the OBSS and would have to tug on it, which could lead to more damage, or even (if that wire is conductive) electric shock.

BTW:  Who's the PAO now?  I've not heard her before.

[reubenb]

I've submitted the front page stories about this stuff to Digg so that the community over there can get some space articles that aren't the panicky CNN things that usually get posted.  Anyone with a Digg account should go over there and digg it up.  http://digg.com/space/NASA_hard_at_work_on_complex_array_repair_plan

[Jackson]

Fine work reubenb!!

[Chris Bergin]

Thanks Reuben.

Interesting reference from an L2 comment about the last major EVA repair to a Solar Panel on  a station was Skylab 2.

While we're in the lull before the storm, are we heading towards that comparison? Or are we more in the Beamer shakes area? I Would say we're well above the Beamer shakes, but to those who are old enough..Skylab 2? Pushing it a bit?

[Jim]

It is Skylab 2.  Repairing a solar array with limited access.  Success of the repair determines whether the station has sufficient power.

[lcs]

Jim - 1/11/2007  8:48 PM

It is Skylab 2.  Repairing a solar array with limited access.  Success of the repair determines whether the station has sufficient power.

Here's how they did it in those days...much of it out of communication with the ground.

[ChrisC]

Chris Bergin - 31/10/2007  12:10 AM

Oh for pity's sake.

Wake up song is "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" by some 80s band.

A late reply to this post from the beginning of this thread early this morning ...

It's funny how these astronaut and console types are so capable and accomplished but have just the most awful taste in music   (except for Stephanie, her jazz selection a couple days ago was a breathe of fresh air)

And these days that Lion song now reminds me of nothing but Ed Helms doing his blowhard act on The Office ... good stuff

[Andrewwski]

Seems you're forgetting STS-117...Suni and the iPod!

[James Lowe1]

Bump and Lock. Realignment of Flight Day threads into order.