Zenit-3SLB launch with AMOS 3 - April 28, 2008

Zenit-3SLB launch with AMOS 3 - April 28, 2008 by anik on 28 Oct, 2007 08:17
According to Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, Zenit-3SLB rocket has arrived to Baikonur cosmodrome on October 26th...

The launch of Zenit-3SLB rocket with DM-SLB upper stage and AMOS 3 satellite is currently scheduled for March 12, 2008...
#1 by anik on 10 Dec, 2007 14:20
http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=2660

The preparation of Zenit-3SLB rocket to the launch has begun today...
#2 by anik on 12 Dec, 2007 14:37
http://www.tsenki.com/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=559

Transferring of rocket's stages was carried out yesterday...
#3 by sammie on 12 Dec, 2007 17:32
I especially like those pictures of the Zenit still on the railcars, seems unreal that such sensitive equipment is shipped by rail across the Ukraine, Russia and Kazakhstan. Just like those pictures of Proton engines being unloaded, lovely!

More of them are overhere
#4 by anik on 28 Dec, 2007 15:39
http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=2722

DM-SLB upper stage has been delivered to Baikonur cosmodrome recently...

Images (below) of unloading of upper stage are from Roskosmos website...
#5 by anik on 29 Dec, 2007 09:35
Additional images of unloading of DM-SLB upper stage on December 25th are on http://www.tsenki.com/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=565
#6 by anik on 17 Jan, 2008 16:23
http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=2767

Complex checking of systems of Zenit-3SLB rocket is performed... DM-SLB upper stage is preparing for assembly with fairing... Installation and tests of equipment on the launch pad 45/1 are continuing...

There will be the rollout of Zenit-3SLB rocket with DM-SLB upper stage to the launch pad for complex tests of the launch pad... Then the rocket will be returned for continuation of preparation to the launch...
#7 by edkyle99 on 17 Jan, 2008 17:09
Quote
sammie - 12/12/2007 12:32 PM

I especially like those pictures of the Zenit still on the railcars, seems unreal that such sensitive equipment is shipped by rail across the Ukraine, Russia and Kazakhstan. Just like those pictures of Proton engines being unloaded, lovely!

If rail can handle fully loaded shuttle SRBs, it can handle empty rocket stages. Come to think of it, Atlas V, like Ariane 5, rolls out to its pad fully integrated, payload and all, on rails!

- Ed Kyle
#8 by Satori on 25 Jan, 2008 12:49
At Baykonur are carried out the tests on the nose fairing of tha launch vehicle and on the Block-SLB upper stage.

Images are from here.
#9 by on 01 Feb, 2008 01:34
Works for preparation of Zenit 3SLB

http://www.tsenki.com/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=567
#10 by on 01 Feb, 2008 01:37
More photos!

http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=2832
#11 by Jim on 01 Feb, 2008 01:39
Quote
edkyle99 - 17/1/2008 1:09 PM

If rail can handle fully loaded shuttle SRBs, it can handle empty rocket stages. Come to think of it, Atlas V, like Ariane 5, rolls out to its pad fully integrated, payload and all, on rails!

- Ed Kyle

They don't get humped or run over switches at higher speeds
#12 by edkyle99 on 01 Feb, 2008 04:38
Quote
Jim - 31/1/2008 8:39 PM

Quote
edkyle99 - 17/1/2008 1:09 PM

If rail can handle fully loaded shuttle SRBs, it can handle empty rocket stages. Come to think of it, Atlas V, like Ariane 5, rolls out to its pad fully integrated, payload and all, on rails!

- Ed Kyle

They don't get humped or run over switches at higher speeds

Right. SRB segment cars aren't humped (slam-coupled in gravity switching yards). They are run in special trains. My guess is that those Zenit booster cars are treated the same way. But such care isn't really that extreme. Passenger cars and intermodal loads alike are run in "special" trains and treated with care on railroads.

- Ed Kyle
#13 by jacqmans on 05 Feb, 2008 21:29
05.02.2008 Baikonur: Work according to the program "ground-based start"

http://www.roscosmos.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=2856

At the spaceport Baikonur continues the work according to the program "ground-based start". Program provides for conducting it is starting space rocket "zenith -.3SLB" ("zenith -3M").

From RN "the zenith -2" given carrier rocket is characterized by the new numerical systems of control and on-board computer, and also use of a starting block "DM -.SLB" as the third of step RN. This modification they make it possible to place communication satellites in geostationary orbit.

The autonomous checkings of space head part were completed on the past week, after which it was transported on area ? 42 into the assembly and testing housing of the preparation of carrier rocket.

Today calculations BY FKTS "Baikonur", KB of transport machine building, RKK "energy" of the name Of s.P.Koroleva "and of other enterprises began docking operations of space head part with the carrier rocket.

After the completion of jointing and joint reviews, the space rocket "zenith -.3SLB" with the starting block "DM -.SLB" will be exported to the launching system of the area of ?yashch for conducting of fitting, finalizing of the cyclogram of launch preparation (including of servicing starting block with propellant components).

After the completion of works according to the program of the technological of removal, rocket it is returned to the assembly housing, and the calculations of space branch will approach the direct preparation for the first launching RN "zenith -.3SLB" from the spaceport Baikonur.

The launch of space rocket "zenith -.3SLB" with the starting block "DM -.SLB" as the third step and by the Israeli telecommunication satellite AMOS 3 is planned to the spring 2008.
#14 by on 14 Feb, 2008 02:59
http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=2898

Works at the cosmodrome Baikonur under the program « Ground-based start »

At the cosmodrome Baikonur works under the program « Ground start » proceed. Experts Roscosmos have finished a stage of working off of technology of tests of a booster rocket on a technical complex.
Today calculations "Baikonur", ?B transport mechanical engineering, RKK "Energia" of a name of S.P.Korolev » and the Ukrainian enterprises have lead stacking a rocket of space purpose from a workplace on the transpor?s-adjusting unit. After end of works, the rocket will be translated in a mode of storage.
Upon termination of preparation of a launcher of a platform 45 to joint tests, the booster rocket "Zenith-SLB" will be taken out on a starting complex for carrying out first working off preparations for start-up, including refuellings the block by components of fuel.
After end of works under the program of technological export, the rocket will be returned in the assembly case and calculations of space branch will start direct preparation of the first rocket firing "Zenith-3SLB" from the cosmodrome Baikonur.
Rocket firing of space purpose "Zenith-3SLB" with upeer stage block " D?-SLB " as the third step and Israeli telecommunication satellite AMOS 3 is planned for spring of 2008.

P.D. Sorry for mi bad traduction between Russian to English
#15 by PDJennings on 15 Feb, 2008 14:22
The Zenit 3SLB payload fairing looks identical to the payload fairing originally developed for the commercial Proton K Block DM (first use, Astra-1F in 1996). I have read that the Zenit 3SLB fairing is built by Lavochkin. I wonder whether this is under license from the Khrunichev SRPSC?

Also, we were never able to paint these fairings white as Land Launch seems to have done. Khrunichev engineers told us they had no conductive paints in anything but black and grey. Has Lavochkin found a white conductive paint supplier? Someone should tell Khrunichev.
#16 by Jim on 15 Feb, 2008 15:01
Quote
PDJennings - 15/2/2008 10:22 AM
Khrunichev engineers told us they had no conductive paints in anything but black and grey. Has Lavochkin found a white conductive paint supplier? Someone should tell Khrunichev.

That is a no no
#17 by Stan Black on 15 Feb, 2008 15:17
Quote
PDJennings - 15/2/2008 9:22 AM

The Zenit 3SLB payload fairing looks identical to the payload fairing originally developed for the commercial Proton K Block DM (first use, Astra-1F in 1996). I have read that the Zenit 3SLB fairing is built by Lavochkin. I wonder whether this is under license from the Khrunichev SRPSC?

Also, we were never able to paint these fairings white as Land Launch seems to have done. Khrunichev engineers told us they had no conductive paints in anything but black and grey. Has Lavochkin found a white conductive paint supplier? Someone should tell Khrunichev.

This fairing was used for Yamal, looks similiar to the Khrunichev but what gives it away is that on the DM there is a tapered section placed around the torus instrument section.

Compare
http://www.kosmonavtika.com/lancements/2003/24112003/24112003photos.html
with
http://www.kosmonavtika.com/lancements/2006/17062006/17062006photos.html

Stan
#18 by Satori on 28 Feb, 2008 17:45
At the Baykonur Cosmodrome have started the tests of the 11K77 Zenit-3SLB ate the LC45/1 launch pad with the launcher being transported to the launch complex.

At the pad the technitians will make tests to the launch complex as well as fuelling tests of the rocket.

After the tests the rocket will be transported back to the assembly building to be prepared for the first launch that is schedule for April 27th.

Images from Roscosmos page.
#19 by Jirka Dlouhy on 29 Feb, 2008 20:14
Baykonur pads for Zenith-3SLB
#20 by Satori on 29 Feb, 2008 20:30
Quote
Jirka Dlouhy - 29/2/2008 3:14 PM

Baykonur pads for Zenith-3SLB

Actally is only one pad, LC45/1... LC45/2 was destroyed some years ago...
#21 by jacqmans on 13 Mar, 2008 13:16
13.03.2008 is in front the first launching from the spaceport Baikonur rocket "zenith -.3SLB"

http://www.roscosmos.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=3013

On the past week at the spaceport Baikonur successfully were completed the complex tests of launching system "zenith" after the modernization, carry ouied for the purpose of fulfillment booster rockets "zenith -.3SLB". During the week the space rocket "zenith -.3SLB" with the starting block DM as the third step was located on the launching system, and the calculations of the space branches of Russia and Ukraine mastered the cyclogram of its launch preparation. In the course of complex tests the operations of pre-firing checks and missile preparation for the launching were performed, including servicing starting block with oxygen. After the removal of rocket from the launcher, it was returned into the assembly and testing housing of area 42 and the specialists of the space branches of Russia and Ukraine approached the data analysis, obtained in the course of the complex tests of launching system.

Today at the spaceport Baikonur took place the conference, at which working groups reported the enumeration of the works, which must be carried out for eliminating the observations, revealed in the course of complex tests. The successful conducting of the complex tests of launching system opened road to the first launch of rocket "zenith -.3SLB" from the spaceport Baikonur. Rocket will have to put into orbit the telecommunication satellite AMOS3, launching is planned to carry out during the spring 2008.
#22 by anik on 18 Mar, 2008 15:20
http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=3051

The satellite was delivered to Baikonur cosmodrome by aircraft today.
#23 by Jester on 19 Mar, 2008 04:04
The team as arrived in the cosmodrome yesterday, I caught the container going by train, but was too late the grab my cam, so hence the crappy picture

P.S.

there is a local rumour about some issues with the spacecraft that will cause it to be delayed after april 24th (too bad as I wanted to see this one....)
#24 by jacqmans on 22 Mar, 2008 08:27
21.03.2008 "zenith -.3SLB" with the starting block DM and with the Israeli satellite AMOS3 is prepared for the starting

http://www.roscosmos.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=3071

At the spaceport Baikonur continues the work on preparation for the starting of space rocket "zenith -.3SLB" with the starting block DM and the Israeli satellite AMOS3. Today Israeli specialists in the clean camera of the assembly and testing housing of the area of 31 spaceports approached the autonomous checkings of the telecommunication automatic spacecraft AMOS3.

In the assembly and testing housing of area 254 calculations RKK "energy" of the name Of s.P.Koroleva and federal space center "Baikonur" conduct testings of the system of control of starting block DM -.SLB, carry out the autonomous tests of the systems of starting block.
In the assembly and testing housing of area 42 calculations of the enterprises Of roskosmosa I carry out testings of carrier rocket "zenith -.3SLB", today is conducted the additional testing of the knot of the automatic jointing of rocket with the launching gear.

On the launching system of the area of 45 spaceports are replenished stocks of air, nitrogen and helium, necessary for conducting the forthcoming launching.
The launch of space rocket "zenith -.3SLB" with the starting block DM and by the Israeli satellite AMOS3 is planned to carry out during the spring 2008.
#25 by Jester on 29 Mar, 2008 03:01
From the amos team: launch is still planned for the 24th of April at 11:00am local time.
#26 by jacqmans on 31 Mar, 2008 09:00
31.03.2008 at the spaceport Baikonur continues preparation for the starting of space rocket "zenith -.3SLB" with satellite AMOS3

http://www.roscosmos.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=3129

Na spaceport Baikonur continues preparation for the starting of space rocket "zenith -.3SLB" with the starting block DM -.SLB as the third step and satellite AMOS3.

In the past output starting block DM -.SLB was transported from the assembly and testing housing of area 254 to the servicing station of the area of 31 spaceports, where passed its servicing with propellant components and by compressed gases. In Sunday starting block was transported into the assembly and testing housing of area 31 and today calculations OKB "message" and RKK "energy" conduct its installation in working the place, where will be carried out preparation for jointing of starting block with automatic spacecraft AMOS3.

Na of the servicing station of the area of 31 spaceports the calculations Of roskosmosa began preparation for servicing of the engine installation of telecommunication satellite with propellant components. Is built the clean tent, in which the satellite will be located during the servicing, is conducted work on assembling of conduits, on which will be given the propellant components onboard the satellite.

In the assembly and testing housing of area 42 calculations of the enterprises Of roskosmosa carry out the final testings of carrier rocket "zenith -.3SLB".
The launch of space rocket "zenith -.3SLB" with the starting block DM -.SLB and by the telecommunication satellite AMOS3 is planned to carry out on 24 April, 2008.
#27 by anik on 03 Apr, 2008 14:08
http://kz-today.kz/index.php?lang=rus&uin=1138536794&chapter=1153444142

The fuelling of AMOS 3 satellite by propellant and compressed gases has begun today at the fueling station no. 31 of Baikonur cosmodrome.
#28 by Nicolas PILLET on 10 Apr, 2008 13:09
KGTch is complete !

AMOS 3 was ensapsulated today : http://www.roscosmos.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=3190
#29 by roy on 13 Apr, 2008 15:38
when the satellite out to point to launch ?
#30 by anik on 15 Apr, 2008 16:58
http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=3220

Today the ascent unit (containing AMOS 3 satellite and DM-SLB upper stage) has been docked to the rocket.
#31 by anik on 19 Apr, 2008 14:59
http://kz-today.kz/index.php?lang=rus&uin=1138536794&chapter=1153445727

Mating of electric connections and standard checks of connections of Zenit-3SLB rocket are performing today.

The rocket will be rolled out to the launch pad no. 1 of the site no. 45 on April 21st.
#32 by anik on 20 Apr, 2008 15:47
According to Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, for tomorrow's rollout Zenit-3SLB rocket has been laid onto the erector.
#33 by Satori on 20 Apr, 2008 16:29
Andrey, can you please confirm that the launch is schedule for 0500UTC?
#34 by anik on 20 Apr, 2008 16:54
Quote
Satori - 20/4/2008 8:29 PM

can you please confirm that the launch is schedule for 0500UTC?

I can not confirm. But it is the time, which we have seen in Jester's post here. The schedule of Spaceflight Now has the same time.

MID website does not have info about this launch for now. Probably tomorrow it will have.
#35 by roy on 20 Apr, 2008 17:57
any feed live direct ?
#36 by on 20 Apr, 2008 20:20
I think that Boeing webcast will be coveraged the launch from Baikonur
#37 by roy on 21 Apr, 2008 07:58
i found israel live launch of amos 3 time counter of the launch
http://www.tapuz.co.il/blog/viewEntry.asp?EntryId=1227862
#38 by anik on 21 Apr, 2008 15:40
http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=3253

Today Zenit-3SLB rocket with DM-SLB upper stage and AMOS 3 satellite has been rolled out to the launch pad. The launch is officially planned at 05:00 UTC on April 24.
#39 by roy on 21 Apr, 2008 20:12
wow good photo
#40 by Danderman on 21 Apr, 2008 20:52
These - and more - at:

http://www.tsenki.com/NewsDoSeleFed.asp?NEWSID=3253
#41 by jacqmans on 23 Apr, 2008 04:50
#42 by Danderman on 23 Apr, 2008 15:05
From:

http://www.tsenki.com/NewsDoSeleFed.asp?NEWSID=3273

At the Baikonur spaceport work is being completed on launch preparation of the "Zenit-3SLB" launch vehicle with "Block-DM-SLB" as the third stage and the Amos 3 spacecraft. Today, at the launch platform, by the joint efforts of Roskosmos and Ukrainian enterprises, and with the participation of the specialists of the customer, the spacecraft batteries are being charged. Tomorrow, at 3:00 Moscow time, the meeting of the State Commission will begin, which must make a decision about the launch. The launch is planned at 9:00 Moscow time, 24 April of this year.
#43 by anik on 23 Apr, 2008 19:08
Short version of the sequence (in UTC) of AMOS-3 launch (from Novosti kosmonavtiki forum):

05:00:00 - Launch of Zenit-3SLB rocket
05:08:32.56 - Separation of ascent unit from the second stage of rocket
05:08:40.56-05:11:09.7 - First burn of DM-SLB upper stage
06:15:52.96-06:21:25.41 - Second burn of DM-SLB upper stage
12:05:49.6-12:08:21.1 - Third burn of DM-SLB upper stage
12:19:11.1 - Separation of AMOS-3 satellite from DM-SLB upper stage
#44 by Jirka Dlouhy on 23 Apr, 2008 19:43
Mass of AMOS-3 (1250 kg) is dry or launch mass?
#45 by Esse on 23 Apr, 2008 19:57
Webcast link on this page
http://www.amos-spacecom.com/amos1/index.asp
#46 by stardust 1 on 23 Apr, 2008 20:11
Quote
Esse - 23/4/2008 2:57 PM

Webcast link on this page
http://www.amos-spacecom.com/amos1/index.asp

webcast link on this page to

http://switch5.castup.net
#47 by William Graham on 23 Apr, 2008 20:14
Quote
anik - 23/4/2008 7:08 PM
06:15:52.96-06:21:25.41 - Second burn of DM-SLB upper stage
12:05:49.6-12:08:21.1 - Third burn of DM-SLB upper stage

That's quite a long coast phase. Are they injecting straight into GSO?
#48 by William Graham on 23 Apr, 2008 20:19
Quote
stardust 1 - 23/4/2008 8:11 PM

Quote
Esse - 23/4/2008 2:57 PM

Webcast link on this page
http://www.amos-spacecom.com/amos1/index.asp

webcast link on this page to

http://switch5.castup.net

That link doesn't work.

Try http://switch5.castup.net/frames/msn/20080424/
#49 by anik on 23 Apr, 2008 20:23
Quote
GW_Simulations - 23/4/2008 12:14 AM

Are they injecting straight into GSO?

Yes. Straight into GSO.
#50 by on 23 Apr, 2008 22:18
time of webcast begins?
#51 by William Graham on 23 Apr, 2008 23:35
Quote
roy - 23/4/2008 9:34 PM

the link is work

I'm getting a 403 on it.
#52 by roy on 24 Apr, 2008 00:13
i got color bards

try this link

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/msn/20080424
#53 by DarthVader on 24 Apr, 2008 01:02
http://www.amos-spacecom.com/amos1/index.asp said the launch is at 5:00 UTC .. I'm guessing 5am UTC, that's in 4 hours from now ... is that correct?
#54 by on 24 Apr, 2008 02:28
is working the webcast
#55 by Danderman on 24 Apr, 2008 02:38
FWIW, if the launch occurs at 0500 UTC, that is 9 pm Pacific Daylight Time, midnight EDT, as far as my clock says.
#56 by edkyle99 on 24 Apr, 2008 03:08
Quote
Danderman - 23/4/2008 9:38 PM

FWIW, if the launch occurs at 0500 UTC, that is 9 pm Pacific Daylight Time, midnight EDT, as far as my clock says.

0500 UTC is 0100 EDT, 2200 PDT. Scheduled launch is a few minutes less than two hours from now.

- Ed Kyle
#57 by Jester on 24 Apr, 2008 03:14
I'm leaving the hotel in about 40 minutes to watch the launch here, as it's not our launch, i'm not sure how close we will be, but i'm bringing cams anyway, report back later
#58 by Ronsmytheiii on 24 Apr, 2008 03:36
the countdown here:

http://www.tapuz.co.il/blog/viewEntry.asp?EntryId=1227862

are an hour off
#59 by anik on 24 Apr, 2008 04:23
Webcast has begun.
#60 by DarthVader on 24 Apr, 2008 04:24
the feed is ON btw.
#61 by Nick L. on 24 Apr, 2008 04:35
Is there a way to get a feed without the flash player?
#62 by anik on 24 Apr, 2008 04:36
Quote
Nick L. - 24/4/2008 8:35 AM

Is there a way to get a feed without the flash player?

Yes, http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=97&ar=live01 (thanks to Yaroslav from NK forum!)
#63 by Nick L. on 24 Apr, 2008 04:38
Thanks very much!

Very nice music...
#64 by Nick L. on 24 Apr, 2008 04:40
#65 by roy on 24 Apr, 2008 04:46
feed 4w 11632 v se-3255 fec 3/4 live
#66 by Nick L. on 24 Apr, 2008 04:53
About 8 minutes to liftoff.
#67 by Nick L. on 24 Apr, 2008 04:58
2 minutes to launch and they are still talking!
#68 by Nick L. on 24 Apr, 2008 04:59
Looks like the tanks are beginning to be pressurized.
#69 by DarthVader on 24 Apr, 2008 05:02
Quote
Nick L. - 23/4/2008 9:58 PM

2 minutes to launch and they are still talking!

Yeah .. even Shimon Perez look bored
#70 by Ronsmytheiii on 24 Apr, 2008 05:02
well it turned 0 awhile ago...

Edit: Anyone understand Hebrew I believe it is?
#71 by Nick L. on 24 Apr, 2008 05:06
Hmm, seems like we have a little while longer to wait until launch.
#72 by astropl on 24 Apr, 2008 05:10
Quote
Nick L. - 24/4/2008 7:06 AM

Hmm, seems like we have a little while longer to wait until launch.

Yes, much longer - 24 hours delay due to technical problems:
http://rian.ru/technology/20080424/105778208.html
#73 by edkyle99 on 24 Apr, 2008 05:43
#74 by otisbow on 24 Apr, 2008 05:59
I was watching the web cast with no sound. What is going on with the launch? I saw a bunch of folks singing.
#75 by roy on 24 Apr, 2008 06:02
return color bars
we waiting more inforamtion
#76 by anik on 24 Apr, 2008 08:51
The problem was with the erector, which could not depart the launch pad automatically.
#77 by osiossim on 24 Apr, 2008 09:06
The news about launch delay is here;

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1208870479489
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3535328,00.html
http://www.inform.kz/showarticle.php?lang=eng&id=163607
http://www.hemscott.com/news/latest-news/item.do?newsId=63451699592641

Does anybody aware about the details of SES's new approach to acquire SpaceCom? Will this include Amos3 this time?
#78 by Olaf on 24 Apr, 2008 12:27
According to Novosti kosmonavtiki the launch is delayed to Saturday.
Are two launches on one day (AMOS-3 and GIOVE-B) possible?
#79 by Jester on 24 Apr, 2008 13:33
latest news from the russians here (slightly unofficial but source is very close) they are going back to the MIK, this means de-mate the stack etc. etc. so BIG delay
#80 by Jester on 24 Apr, 2008 13:52
two issues reported:

1. issues with the erector
2. issues with de-fueling of the launcher
#81 by Jester on 24 Apr, 2008 18:09
Apparently after talking to the AMOS-3 guys the issue with the erector was that two jack didn't lift and the erector stopped during its automatic roll-back at around 2 minutes before lift-off
More later, sleep time now
paka
#82 by Danderman on 24 Apr, 2008 19:02
The bummer was that the angle chosen by the webcast operators for the launch vehicle pretty much hid the erector issue from those of us watching. Instead, we got to watch Shimon Peres talk about something or other.
#83 by roy on 24 Apr, 2008 19:15
ppl translation shimon peres say amos 3 is like new baby cant comeing out but soon will be out
#84 by roy on 25 Apr, 2008 08:22
April 28 – AMOS 3 – Zenit-3SLB/DM-SLB – Baikonur – 05:00:00 UTC
#85 by on 28 Apr, 2008 02:53
01:00 a.m. EDT
#86 by William Graham on 28 Apr, 2008 04:18
I can't get the webcast to start. Anyone else having any luck?
#87 by Nick L. on 28 Apr, 2008 04:20
Same address as last time?
#88 by William Graham on 28 Apr, 2008 04:22
Quote
Nick L. - 28/4/2008 4:20 AM

Same address as last time?

I've been trying the MSN one. The link on the AMOS website has disappeared.

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/msn/20080424/

It just won't start. Not even coloured bars.
#89 by Nick L. on 28 Apr, 2008 04:25
Quote
GW_Simulations - 28/4/2008 12:22 AM

Quote
Nick L. - 28/4/2008 4:20 AM

Same address as last time?

I've been trying the MSN one. The link on the AMOS website has disappeared.

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/msn/20080424/

It just won't start. Not even coloured bars.

Yeah, I'm getting no joy on that one too.
#90 by Nick L. on 28 Apr, 2008 04:28
I've got color bars and a tone on this link here:
http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=97&ar=live01
#91 by shuttle on 28 Apr, 2008 04:31
try this one http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=97&ar=live01
my question is , will be a launch or a delay again today?
#92 by William Graham on 28 Apr, 2008 04:31
Thanks. I would have expected it to start by now, but at least we have a link.
#93 by William Graham on 28 Apr, 2008 04:37
Coming up on L-20 mins. Still no webcast. This is starting to remind me of COSMO-2.
#94 by Nick L. on 28 Apr, 2008 04:38
L-23 minutes (roughly) and still only color bars. I'm not even sure if they are going to broadcast this flight. I assume this is a big deal for Spacecom so if there were a webcast I'd imagine they'd make it plainly visible on their site.

It's also possible that the link we have is outdated and they are using a different one for tonight. Hopefully Anik or someone can hook us up with a feed if that is the case.
#95 by William Graham on 28 Apr, 2008 04:41
Quote
Nick L. - 28/4/2008 4:38 AM

L-23 minutes (roughly) and still only color bars. I'm not even sure if they are going to broadcast this flight.

It's either going to be 1. a late start because they don't want to repeat things shown during the scrubbed attempt, 2. they've forgotten to turn the webcast on (a la COSMO-2), or 3. it's been scrubbed, but news hasn't filtered through yet. I can't see any reason why they would intentionally webcast one attempt, but not the next.
#96 by William Graham on 28 Apr, 2008 04:55
5 mins to go. No sign of anything. I've opened a feed of the Russian Vesti news station on the offchance they might have something, but nothing yet.
#97 by William Graham on 28 Apr, 2008 05:00
T-0. Launch shuld have occurred.
#98 by roy on 28 Apr, 2008 05:01
Tel Aviv – 27 April 2008: Spacecom (Tel Aviv Stock Exchange: SCC), the operator of the AMOS satellite fleet, today announced that its AMOS-3 communications satellite is rescheduled to launch from the Baikonur Cosmodrome on Monday, 28 April 2008. The company reported to the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange that the launch window for the satellite will open at 08:00 ocal time (05:00 GMT).
#99 by William Graham on 28 Apr, 2008 05:02
Quote
roy - 28/4/2008 5:01 AM

Tel Aviv – 27 April 2008: Spacecom (Tel Aviv Stock Exchange: SCC), the operator of the AMOS satellite fleet, today announced that its AMOS-3 communications satellite is rescheduled to launch from the Baikonur Cosmodrome on Monday, 28 April 2008. The company reported to the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange that the launch window for the satellite will open at 08:00 ocal time (05:00 GMT).

I.E. two minutes ago.
#100 by shuttle on 28 Apr, 2008 05:09
any news ?
#101 by Nick L. on 28 Apr, 2008 05:10
T+9 minutes. Not even a clue as to whether it's lifted off, been scrubbed, or gone BOOM!
#102 by astropl on 28 Apr, 2008 05:10
Quote
GW_Simulations - 28/4/2008 7:00 AM

T-0. Launch shuld have occurred.

On-time launch!

http://www.rian.ru/technology/20080428/106034528.html
#103 by Nick L. on 28 Apr, 2008 05:12
Quote
astropl - 28/4/2008 1:10 AM

Quote
GW_Simulations - 28/4/2008 7:00 AM

T-0. Launch shuld have occurred.

On-time launch!

http://www.rian.ru/technology/20080428/106034528.html

Nice! Good luck and here's hoping for a successful flight.
#104 by input~2 on 28 Apr, 2008 06:00
Satellite separation is planned at 12:19 GMT
#105 by on 28 Apr, 2008 06:10
http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=177942&cid=1
#106 by shuttle on 28 Apr, 2008 09:37
The launcher’s first and second stages have already been successfully separated. The last stage will be separated a few hours after the launch, and AMOS-3 will unfold its solar panels and main antenna and begin communicating with its ground-control station.

http://www.amos-spacecom.com/amos1/page.asp?newsid=22&type=6&lang=1&cat=68
#107 by slavik on 28 Apr, 2008 10:53
mms://213.8.193.29/msnvideo/news/amosfly_080428.wmv
(http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7517&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=615)
#108 by eeergo on 28 Apr, 2008 11:17
Quote
slavik - 28/4/2008 11:53 AM mms://213.8.193.29/msnvideo/news/amosfly_080428.wmv (http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7517&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=615)
Thanks for that! Wow, very powerful looking, and great sound!
Congratulations for LandLaunch's first success!
#109 by yuri_doma on 28 Apr, 2008 11:30
http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=3298 (with images)
#110 by Satori on 28 Apr, 2008 11:57
Exact launch time in format 0500:00,XXXUTC???

Thanks!
#111 by input~2 on 28 Apr, 2008 13:26
From roskosmos web site:
28.04.2008 Amos-3 spacecraft transmitted to the customer management
In accordance with its timeline, "Amos-3" separated from the "DM-SL B" boost stage at 16 hours. 19 min. (Moscow Standard Time) on 28 April 2008.
#112 by roy on 28 Apr, 2008 13:59
http://msnvideo.msn.co.il/video/default.aspx?g=c709e9b8-826a-4227-9d29-ed4228b23f69

video of amos 3 injoy it
#113 by input~2 on 28 Apr, 2008 14:16
message for NSF administrator(s):
Did you suppress some of our posts in this thread from this morning, in particular those about the wrong ITAR-TASS picture? Could we have some reasons for that suppression?
#114 by input~2 on 28 Apr, 2008 14:24
The picture is still wrong (it's a Soyuz) in the updated article at http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=12627168
#115 by roy on 28 Apr, 2008 14:46
the last link is not real photo ?
#116 by Satori on 28 Apr, 2008 15:00
Quote
roy - 28/4/2008 9:46 AM

the last link is not real photo ?

No, it is not the photo of the Zenit-3SLB launch. Sometimes news agencies use images of other launches to illustrate those articles. This is a usual procedure especially when the news about the launches is given a few minutes after they happen and when the images are not available yet.
#117 by roy on 28 Apr, 2008 15:12
the youtube is real video coming from ukrina is fantasic video acroding this video
#118 by edkyle99 on 28 Apr, 2008 18:00
Here is a real photo of the launch, from the Spacecom web site.

http://www.amos-spacecom.com/UserFiles/Image/A3%20launch1.jpg

I've attached a reduced version of the image to this message.

- Ed Kyle
#119 by Danderman on 29 Apr, 2008 20:34
Could someone explain why the Israelis switched from Soyuz to Zenit for this mission? AFAIK, the mass of the AMOS payload was similar to the AMOS flown on Soyuz-FG. Is it possible that Zenit is now cheaper than Soyuz?
#120 by Mighty-T on 29 Apr, 2008 21:18
Yes, lift-off mass of AMOS 3 is in the range of its predecessors, however, the higher performing Zenit could put this one directly into geostationary orbit (GEO), whereas the Soyuz could have only put it into transfer orbit (GTO, leaving AMOS with the task to propel itself into final orbit, needing around 1500 m/s delta-v).

On the other hand, pricewise, you're also right. Considering the fact that Spacecom launched on Zenit 3's first GEO mission and the maiden flight for LandLaunch, they surely got a special pricetag on this one!
#121 by ilia25 on 29 Apr, 2008 22:06
Special price notwithstanding, I wonder if they can sell Zenits cheaper on a regular basis. A Zenit may be simpler to build than a Soyuz (less engines, etc), and these days they are coming off the assembly line like sausages
#122 by edkyle99 on 29 Apr, 2008 23:38
Quote
ilia25 - 29/4/2008 5:06 PM

Special price notwithstanding, I wonder if they can sell Zenits cheaper on a regular basis. A Zenit may be simpler to build than a Soyuz (less engines, etc), and these days they are coming off the assembly line like sausages

No more than five Zenits (including Sea Launch) have ever flown in a given year, but there have already been three this year, and as many as a dozen appear on some 2008 schedules (though the actual number will almost certainly be less). The Taurus II synergy (Taurus II will use Zenit-type tanks), the RD-180/171/191 synergy, etc., all seem to be coalescing in a way that could, should, reduce costs. I'm convinced that were it not for the Russian/Ukrainian political aspect, Zenit might have supplanted R-7 and/or Proton by now, and made Angara unnecessary.

- Ed Kyle
#123 by Danderman on 30 Apr, 2008 04:13
I noticed that the second burn of the Block-DM took place over the south Atlantic, a relatively low altitude. So, how is the telemetry monitored for that burn?
#124 by LeVent on 30 Apr, 2008 04:21
Quote
ilia25 - 29/4/2008 5:06 PM

Special price notwithstanding, I wonder if they can sell Zenits cheaper on a regular basis. A Zenit may be simpler to build than a Soyuz (less engines, etc), and these days they are coming off the assembly line like sausages
RD-171 is more expensive than the entire Soyuz
#125 by ilia25 on 30 Apr, 2008 08:22
Quote
LeVent - 29/4/2008 11:21 PM

Quote
ilia25 - 29/4/2008 5:06 PM

Special price notwithstanding, I wonder if they can sell Zenits cheaper on a regular basis. A Zenit may be simpler to build than a Soyuz (less engines, etc), and these days they are coming off the assembly line like sausages
RD-171 is more expensive than the entire Soyuz

That would be quite an exaggeration
#126 by DmitryP on 30 Apr, 2008 08:30
Quote
LeVent - 30/4/2008 8:21 AM RD-171 is more expensive than the entire Soyuz

I guess prices for foreign customers and local prices (especially under government contracts) could be unbelievably different in Russia. And any discussion of local prices is useless since the pricing scheme goes back to Soviet time and proper information is not available.
#127 by mikers on 30 Apr, 2008 08:31
Why not just move the Zenit tank tooling back to Russia? I think it would be cheaper for all the parties. The rest of the components are already there.

[edit] Afaik, the tank schematics were 'shared' back in the soviet days
#128 by pm1823 on 30 Apr, 2008 09:51
//Why not just move the Zenit tank tooling back to Russia? I think it would be cheaper for all the parties.

It's funny to say, but an ukrainian qualified manpower cheaper than russian.
#129 by mikers on 30 Apr, 2008 09:56
Quote
pm1823 - 30/4/2008 2:51 AM

//Why not just move the Zenit tank tooling back to Russia? I think it would be cheaper for all the parties.

It's funny to say, but an ukrainian qualified manpower cheaper than russian.

OK. I can understand this. If so, why not move that manpower there as well (add a bit to the salary as an incentive)
#130 by jacqmans on 30 Apr, 2008 10:43
April 28, 2008. Baikonour Cosmodrome – RSC Energia after S.P. Korolev,
the city of Korolev

At 9:00 Moscow Time, Integrated Launch Vehicle (ILV) Zenit-3SLB together with AMOS-3 spacecraft as the payload was launched.
The launch objective is to deliver SC of some 1.27 tons by mass to geosynchronous orbit.
Putting this SC into the orbit was performed by Upper Stage (US) DM-SLB from low earth transfer orbit, where the SC/US had been delivered by launch vehicle (LV) Zenit-2SB. Upper Stage DM-SLB is a newly-modified DM-type Upper Stage developed by RSC Energia after S.P. Korolev based upon the DM-SL modification within the D, DM blocks family under the Sea Launch Program, with the up-to-date onboard systems (control system, radio system, thermal control system, etc.) used.

The Mission Program which envisaged triple ignition in an automatic mode of the Upper Stage main engine for SC orbital insertion has been implemented completely.
The first ignition of that engine took place after 8 min. 41 sec. of the flight time following the launch (some 10 seconds upon the US/SC separation from LV 2nd Stage). The engine had worked 2.5 min during the first ignition, which provided final ascent of the US DM-SLB/AMOS-3SC into reference near-earth orbit. The second ignition was performed 1 h 15 min after the launch, the engine had worked 5.5 min. The third ignition was performed within 7 h 5 min 50 sec of the launch, the engine had worked 2.5 minutes.

The main engine second and third ignitions allowed the Upper Stage to deliver SC from reference orbit to target orbit. The SC/Upper Stage separation took place at 16:19 Moscow Time.

Monitoring of the US DM-SLB/SC flight was conducted by the Technical Management led by V.A. Lopota, General Designer, President of RSC Energia after S.P. Korolev.
Mission analysis was performed by the specialists from RSC Energia after S.P. Korolev within the Lead Operational Control Team operating at Mission Control Center for Upper Stages DM-SLB (RSC Energia, the city of Korolev). The Flight Director is V.A. Solovyov, the first Deputy General Designer at RSC Energia.

There was a continuous monitoring of the US onboard system operation by telemetry data received by its Mission Control Center using the data acquisition and transmission facilities involved (in particular, the fact of SC separation was recorded in real time during direct transmission of downlink telemetry data from the Upper Stage.

Reference:
1. This was a pioneer launch under the Land Launch Project, which is the ground-based modification of the Sea Launch Project based upon Baikonur Cosmodrome. Also the launch was the first flight test of Upper Stage DM-SLB together with Zenit-2SB launch vehicle and the Mission Control Center for Upper Stages created at RSC Energia.
2. Under the Land Launch Project, RSC Energia along with its related entities provides US DM-SLB development and manufacture, US and Ascent Unit (AU) integration as applied to specific SC, manufacture and integration of the US/SC transfer system. S.P. Rocket and Space Corporation Energia together with its related entities developed US Technical Complex, checkout equipment sets for AU and US at the AU and ILV Technical Complexes to support launches of Upper Stages DM-SLB within Zenit-3SLB ILV AU from Baikonur Cosmodrome.
3. D,DM-type Upper Stages developed and manufactured by RSC Energia after S.P. Korolev are designed to deliver SC from low earth orbits to high-energy orbits (including geosynchronous orbit) as well as Moon and Solar system planet flight paths. Modern modification of Upper Stages DM are operated together with Proton and Zenit rockets.
4. AMOS-3 SC made by Israel company-operator "Spacecom" is designed to support direct TV broadcasting and provide other telecommunication services to customers within the regions of Middle East, Europe, eastern coast of South and Northern America.

Photos:
http://www.energia.ru/eng/news/news-2008/photo_04-28.html
#131 by Nicolas PILLET on 30 Apr, 2008 20:08
Here is the link to my gallery of the flight :

http://www.kosmonavtika.com/lancements/2008/28042008/28042008photos.html

I am happy to see that a big amount of pictures have been released for this "maiden" launch !
#132 by zaitcev on 01 May, 2008 04:23
Quote
mikers - 30/4/2008 2:56 AM

OK. I can understand this. If so, why not move that manpower there as well (add a bit to the salary as an incentive)
It does not work this way, not at the scale necessary in this case at least.

I don't know how many know about Intel Itanium, but let's assume some do. In the 90s, Sun Micro financed a project for a direct cometitor to Itanium. It just as happened that a family of Russian mainframes, Elbrus, was built upon the similar principles, so putting that team to work was supposed to give Sun a leg over Intel.

The project eventually unravelled. In a personal conversation with Mr. Sakhin (the right hand of the project leader, Prof. Babayan), he mentioned that Sun previously offered to transport 150 critical employees of Elbrus to Silicon Valley with families. They were unwilling to depend on Russia in a key piece of technology like the CPU (sounds almost like RD-180, doesn't it). Prof. Babyan turned them down. The reason: half of the people won't go, so the team would break, and after that the project would be useless for Sun anyway, and the development would collapse. {Edit: Forgot to add, staying in Moscow was one of the things which soured the relationship with Sun and made the Itanium a winner by default instead of on merits.}

When Intel bought Elbrus, they relocated "the team" from Moscow to Portland. About half was lost along the way. Babayan was right.

Maybe it was easier to do in the 1940s, but now -- forget it. At best you can transfer CAD models, software, and a few key people. You cannot transfer a cohesive group of hundreds.

On the other hand, Boeing transferred their HQ from Seattle to Chicago. I don't know how it went though, was it a success or the dumbest move in the company history.
#133 by Jim on 01 May, 2008 11:30
Quote
mikers - 30/4/2008 5:56 AM

//Why not just move the Zenit tank tooling back to Russia? I think it would be cheaper for all the parties.

It isn't the Russian's to take back.
#134 by pippin on 01 May, 2008 14:38
Quote
zaitcev - 1/5/2008 6:23 AM
On the other hand, Boeing transferred their HQ from Seattle to Chicago. I don't know how it went though, was it a success or the dumbest move in the company history.

People working in HQs are typically not critical for operations. Slide drafters and strategists don't have key knowledge and are not embedded in a development process, so they can be exchanged quite easily and most of the HQ relocations I've seen so far were done for the exact reason to get rid of lots of them.
#135 by edkyle99 on 01 May, 2008 16:34
Quote
zaitcev - 30/4/2008 11:23 PM
On the other hand, Boeing transferred their HQ from Seattle to Chicago. I don't know how it went though, was it a success or the dumbest move in the company history.

So far so good.

"Boeing Profit Jumps 38%"
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-boeing-earnings-ba-chicago-tribune-apr23,0,7241546.story

- Ed Kyle
#136 by Satori on 07 May, 2008 01:31
Looks like there was some kind of problem with the last burn of the Blok DM-SLB on the AMOS-3 launch, according with this http://izvestia.ru/news/news173271 (in russian).

The planned orbit for AMOS-3 was 35786 x 39092 km x 0.0 deg but at the end of the third burn the satellite was on a 34225 x 39368 km x 0.7 deg orbit. This has to be corrected using some precious fuel on AMOS-3 that led to a 3 year short on the operational life time of the satellite.
#137 by edkyle99 on 07 May, 2008 03:37
Quote
Satori - 6/5/2008 8:31 PM

Looks like there was some kind of problem with the last burn of the Blok DM-SLB on the AMOS-3 launch, according with this http://izvestia.ru/news/news173271 (in russian).

The planned orbit for AMOS-3 was 35786 x 39092 km x 0.0 deg but at the end of the third burn the satellite was on a 34225 x 39368 km x 0.7 deg orbit. This has to be corrected using some precious fuel on AMOS-3 that led to a 3 year short on the operational life time of the satellite.

This would be a shortfall of about 125-ish meters per second, mostly for the plane change.

If I translated this right, the Russians are saying that Zenit put Amos 3 where it was supposed to go, and expect payment in full. The Israelis are saying that Zenit put Amos 3 in an improper orbit, slightly inclined and with a slightly low perigee, but the Russians say that the problem was on the satellite side - that the satellite flew out of control after it was properly inserted into orbit.

The truth is out there somewhere.

- Ed Kyle
#138 by edkyle99 on 09 May, 2008 04:18
Any new info on this? I saw a Space News headline today that mentioned that Sea Launch was reviewing the situation.

- Ed Kyle
#139 by input~2 on 09 May, 2008 08:14
Sea Launch could request the Amos-3 flight data from its partner Energia who is the manufacturer of both RB DM and RB DM-B
#140 by Jim on 09 May, 2008 12:21
Quote
input~2 - 9/5/2008 4:14 AM

Sea Launch could request the Amos-3 flight data from its partner Energia who is the manufacturer of both RB DM and RB DM-B

Landlaunch and Sealaunch are the same company
#141 by input~2 on 09 May, 2008 13:01
According to Space News, for the Amos-3 launch, Space International Services (SIS) of Moscow negociated the contract with Spacecom and Sea Launch was not involved.
#142 by Jim on 09 May, 2008 13:25
Quote
input~2 - 9/5/2008 9:01 AM

According to Space News, for the Amos-3 launch, Space International Services (SIS) of Moscow negociated the contract with Spacecom and Sea Launch was not involved.

What was the name on the side of the vehicle?
Landlaunch

http://www.boeing.com/special/sea-launch/land-launch/index.html#organization
#143 by edkyle99 on 09 May, 2008 15:02
Quote
Jim - 9/5/2008 7:21 AM

Quote
input~2 - 9/5/2008 4:14 AM

Sea Launch could request the Amos-3 flight data from its partner Energia who is the manufacturer of both RB DM and RB DM-B

Landlaunch and Sealaunch are the same company

They're not the same company, but they are related. According to the Land Launch web site, http://www.boeing.com/special/sea-launch/land-launch/index.html
Land Launch is a "collaboration" of international consortium Sea Launch and Moscow-based Space International Services. It is really an SIS (Russian/Ukrainian) show, with Sea Launch handling "contracting and management". Boeing doesn't do payload integration for Land Launch.

The web site provides the following corporate structure.

"Sea Launch Company, LLC, provides contracting and management functions for the Land Launch system. Space International Services, Ltd., based in Moscow, provides hardware and services originating in Russia, Ukraine and Kazakhstan, in a subcontracting arrangement with Sea Launch.

Sea Launch Company, LLC - provides commercial customers with mission management and the Boeing-led quality assurance and hardware acceptance procedures that have contributed to the outstanding reliability of the Sea Launch system.

* Boeing Commercial Space Company, Seattle, Washington, USA
* Aker ASA, Oslo, Norway
* RSC Energia, Moscow, Russia
* SDO Yuzhnoye/PO Yuzhmash, Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine

Space International Services, Ltd - Space International Services provides all launch system components, mission integration and launch operations.

* SDO Yuzhnoye/PO Yuzhmash, Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine
* RSC Energia, Moscow Russia
* KBTM – Design Bureau for Transport Machinery, Moscow, Russia
* TsENKI – Center for Ground-Based Space Infrastructure, Moscow, Russia"

- Ed Kyle
#144 by edkyle99 on 10 May, 2008 16:33
Wondering what the possible failure modes might be, if this was a failure,
I reviewed the Land Launch Users Guide.

Among the differences of interest between the Blok DM-SL and
Blok SM-SLB stages are the following (quoted from the Users Guide).

" - The single, large (and heavy) toroidal avionics bay on the Block
DM-SL is replaced on the Block DM-SLB with several discrete avionics
containers for a net reduction in launch mass

- One set of fuel tanks for the attitude control/ullage engines are removed.
Previously, these tanks were routinely under-filled by the
equivalent of one set of tanks.

- The LOX tank is pressurized with helium instead of an oxygen/
helium mixture

- The minimum useable propellant criterion for the final re-start is
lowered from 4000-kg to 1500-kg, by adding two 10-kgf thrusters to
ensure settling prior to ignition

- An external heat radiator is removed with this function being assumed
by the upper adapter structure"

The "minimum usable propellant" caught my attention, as did the
helium-only LOX tank pressurization.

A shortfall of this type could be in the propulsion chain, but it could
also be in the avionics. I have a hard time believing that a guidance
issue would be involve in what appears to be a 125-ish meter per
second shortfall, since the stated Land Launch accuracy for a
geostationary injection is ± 200 km and ± 0.2 deg, a variation of
probably less than 15 meters per second delta-v.

A correction for my previous post - the shortfall appears to consist
of about 39 meters per second plane change and 80-90-ish meters
per second altitude change.

- Ed Kyle
#145 by edkyle99 on 10 May, 2008 17:08
Quote
edkyle99 - 10/5/2008 11:33 AM

... the shortfall appears to consist
of about 39 meters per second plane change and 80-90-ish meters
per second altitude change.

- Ed Kyle

A re-correction for my previous post - the shortfall appears to consist
of about 39 meters per second plane change and 30-35 meters
per second altitude change to get to the stated injection orbit, for
a total of 70-75 meters per second. An additional 55-60 meters
per second would then be needed to reach the final geosynchronous
orbit, but that final delta-v appears to have originally been assigned
to Amos 3.

So, here's the question - is a 75 meter per second shortfall in a
13,200-ish meter per second GEO mission a launch vehicle failure?

- Ed Kyle
#146 by McDew on 10 May, 2008 18:49
Quote
edkyle99 - 10/5/2008 1:08 PM

Quote
edkyle99 - 10/5/2008 11:33 AM

... the shortfall appears to consist
of about 39 meters per second plane change and 80-90-ish meters
per second altitude change.

- Ed Kyle

A re-correction for my previous post - the shortfall appears to consist
of about 39 meters per second plane change and 30-35 meters
per second altitude change to get to the stated injection orbit, for
a total of 70-75 meters per second. An additional 55-60 meters
per second would then be needed to reach the final geosynchronous
orbit, but that final delta-v appears to have originally been assigned
to Amos 3.

So, here's the question - is a 75 meter per second shortfall in a
13,200-ish meter per second GEO mission a launch vehicle failure?

- Ed Kyle

There will also be a significantly larger delta-v required for station acquisition. It appears that the erroneous injection orbit would have imparted a drift rate in the opposite direction of the planned target orbit to achieve the final on station location. So just calculating the delta-v back to the target orbit would be understating the impact on getting to the "final" on station location and orbit. This is probably why we have heard a higher 3 year lifetime impact being quoted than what a 75 m/s shortfall would otherwise indicate.
#147 by yinzer on 11 May, 2008 22:03
Quote
edkyle99 - 10/5/2008 10:08 AM

So, here's the question - is a 75 meter per second shortfall in a
13,200-ish meter per second GEO mission a launch vehicle failure?

As is always the case when this question comes up, it depends on what one means by "failure". Natural language is not precise enough to do what you are trying to do with it.

That said, it's pretty clear that delta-V shortfall as a percentage of total mission delta-V has very little if any relevance. Shortfall as a fraction of total payload delta-V might be a meaningful criteria.
#148 by hop on 11 May, 2008 22:51
Quote
edkyle99 - 10/5/2008 10:08 AM
So, here's the question - is a 75 meter per second shortfall in a
13,200-ish meter per second GEO mission a launch vehicle failure?

- Ed Kyle
See attached from the land launch users guide.
Assuming they didn't include a weasel clause in the contract, one would have to say that failing to meet those targets was a failure. Not a complete mission failure, but a failure to fulfill their obligations.
#149 by McDew on 12 May, 2008 02:14
Quote
yinzer - 11/5/2008 6:03 PM
That said, it's pretty clear that delta-V shortfall as a percentage of total mission delta-V has very little if any relevance. Shortfall as a fraction of total payload delta-V might be a meaningful criteria.
The usual metric is the percent loss of spacecraft lifetime. If the spacecraft lifetime impact was the 3 years as quoted, then based upon a 15 year planned lifetime results in a partial failure of 20%.
#150 by PDJennings on 12 May, 2008 14:13
Every launch services contract has a weasel clause. Once you hear kontakt podyoma, your liability for performance goes to zero. (Third party liability is a separate matter.) There are some rare contracts that have "free reflight" terms, but those typically reflect buyer's market years and are not common. Even then, you probably need constructive total failure to cash in.

The debate about performance and lifetime for this mission is a matter for the insurers, not for Land Launch. For future missions, though, affected customers and insurers will want a satisfactory explanation of the shortfall. It might never become public domain knowledge.

I should also point out that anyone who considered NRO L-30 a "failure" should automatically consider this one likewise because the payload's dV shortfall was greater.
#151 by edkyle99 on 12 May, 2008 14:27
Quote
PDJennings - 12/5/2008 9:13 AM

I should also point out that anyone who considered NRO L-30 a "failure" should automatically consider this one likewise because the payload's dV shortfall was greater.

This is how I am inclined to see it. Both shortfalls were in the 0.5-0.6% of total mission delta-v range. The AV-009 failure is easier to "see", however, since the cause (a faulty propellant valve) was announced.

This Land Launch "failure" is also reminiscent of last year's similar GSLV F04 problem, which left Insat 4CR about 75 meters per second short of its planned geosynchronous transfer orbit. ISRO never admitted to any launch vehicle problems on that flight even though the insertion apogee fell more than 4,000 km short of the target. Clearly, in both cases, *something* went wrong!

- Ed Kyle
#152 by shuttle on 12 May, 2008 19:27
n2yo. traker give us the actual satellite Amos 3 position at 50°W .this is part of his orbital tests or this are manuvers for corrections ,or something else...?
http://www.n2yo.com/?s=32794
#153 by satlaunch on 12 May, 2008 19:39
Quote
shuttle - 12/5/2008 2:27 PM

.n2yo. traker give us the actual satellite amos3 position at 50*w .this is part of his orbital tests or this are manuvers for corrections?
http://www.n2yo.com/?s=32794

As far as I know AMOS 3 will be tested at 2.5°W longitude and then it will be positioned at 4°W co-located with other Israeli comsats.
#154 by input~2 on 12 May, 2008 21:35
Quote
shuttle - 12/5/2008 2:27 PM n2yo. traker give us the actual satellite Amos 3 position at 50°W .this is part of his orbital tests or this are manuvers for corrections ,or something else...? http://www.n2yo.com/?s=32794
This n2yo.com position is derived from an old tle epoch of May 6 when the satellite had still a high drift rate; latest observation dated to-day May 12 indicates a much slower drift rate and a position close to its IOT slot of 2.5°W.
#155 by risktaker on 13 May, 2008 20:46
AMOS 3 had 18 years worth of fuel on-board for a 12 yr contract life, so even with 3 years lost it still easily makes it contract lifetime. The launch insurance had a no claim bonus which has been requested due to a successful launch.
#156 by pm1823 on 24 Jul, 2008 12:19
http://tvroscosmos.ru/picture_library/video/Films/lle.avi