SpaceX Merlin 1C Engine

[canoe76]

Has anyone heard how Qualification of the engine is going.  In the last company update, Aug. 17, it sounded like they were close to starting Qual.

[jiggawo]

SpaceX decides what qualification is, so it will be ready whenever they want it to be ready.

[braddock]

canoe76 - 19/10/2007  1:02 PM

Has anyone heard how Qualification of the engine is going.  In the last company update, Aug. 17, it sounded like they were close to starting Qual.

The latest information is from our own Q&A with Elon on Sept 24th:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5237

Q: Is the next Falcon 1 Launch still on track for mid-January?

This schedule is dependent on completing qualification of the Merlin 1C engine, so it is impossible to predict with precision what the launch date will be.  All we can do is state that the first countdown will probably be in the Jan/Feb timeframe, unless the Merlin 1C qualification takes longer than expected.

Reports from the local Texas paper Waco Tribune Herald last week stated that SpaceX had done over 1,800 test stand firings over the past several years.  I sure hope that has given them enough opportunities to work the kinks out!

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/content/news/stories/2007/10/14/10142007wacrockets.html

[canoe76]

jiggawo - 21/10/2007  4:16 PM

SpaceX decides what qualification is, so it will be ready whenever they want it to be ready.

Nice contribution.

[TrueGrit]

SpaceX decides qualification until they want a real government contract and Aerospace shows up with a quiver full of arrows

[MKremer]

TrueGrit - 24/10/2007  12:58 AM

SpaceX decides qualification until they want a real government contract and Aerospace shows up with a quiver full of arrows

So you're implying they don't really have any actual income-producing contracts for any of their LVs, yet?

[canoe76]

MKremer - 24/10/2007  1:01 AM

TrueGrit - 24/10/2007  12:58 AM

SpaceX decides qualification until they want a real government contract and Aerospace shows up with a quiver full of arrows

So you're implying they don't really have any actual income-producing contracts for any of their LVs, yet?

wow, I was just asking if anyone knew how Qual Testing was going.

[kkattula]

Apparently they've received 90 odd million of the COTS funding already. And one would think the customers booking future flights have to put some money down.

[TrueGrit]

What I'm saying is that SpaceX isn't the final arbritor if the engine is certified, qualified is a whole other thing, for use in launching a satelitte or a NASA cargo.  In the end the costumer decides on if it meets the particular military/NASA standards.  If SpaceX tries to shortcut the process the Aerospace/NASA review teams will recommend not launching.  They've done it plenty of times in the past...  Both EELVs worked with Aerospace in certifing their systems and yet to this day Aerospace recommendations have resulted in additional special engine testing to keep flying.  And anyone who's launched a payload for the Air Force or NASA knows that you can be easily outnumber 10:1 in a pre-flight petegree review by the government reviewers.  DARPA is a completely different animal...  Little science projects don't have nearly the same risk adverse attitude to a multi billion dollar military payload.

[Danderman]

kkattula - 24/10/2007  6:55 AM  Apparently they've received 90 odd million of the COTS funding already. And one would think the customers booking future flights have to put some money down.

At this point, it appears that SpaceX is using the COTS money to fund Falcon 9, with some small part of the cash flows being used to fund paperwork on their Dragon. I could be wrong, but I don't see any evidence that Dragon is in the kind of workflow that would lead to early flight.

 If I were in charge, I certainly wouldn't spend the big bucks on Dragon until I were pretty sure that Falcon I and 9 were going to fly.

 

[Nate_Trost]

They better be working on Dragon, according to schedule (regardless of how based it is in reality), 13 months from now they need to be able to mount one on top of a Falcon 9.

[Danderman]

Nate_Trost - 29/10/2007  8:03 AM  They better be working on Dragon, according to schedule (regardless of how based it is in reality), 13 months from now they need to be able to mount one on top of a Falcon 9.

I understand the schedule, but I have seen no evidence that, 13 months from now, Dragon will be in orbit. This could be ignorance on my part, however.

 

 

[Frediiiie]

There is an image on the SpaceX web site of the Merlin 1c being fired.
http://www.spacex.com/photo_gallery.php
But personally I think they are being very quiet very deliberately.
The last thing they would want to do is spook ULA into taking SpaceX seriously and actually starting work on a competative system.
When they return to flight in the new year it will be with effectively a 3rd generation engine (1c),
And a craft that flew with only minor problems (read the DARPA report on the Falcon 1's second flight)
At the moment everyone is saying SpaceX can not be taken seriously as they haven't had a successful flight yet.
By this time next year SpaceX is likely to have 2 Falcon 1 launches under it's belt, and a Falcon 9 on the pad ready to go.
Suddenly the rocket business is serilously competative.

[Jim]

Frediiiie - 6/11/2007  7:23 PM

1.The last thing they would want to do is spook ULA into taking SpaceX seriously and actually starting work on a competative system.

........
2.  By this time next year SpaceX is likely to have 2 Falcon 1 launches under it's belt, and
3.  a Falcon 9 on the pad ready to go.
Suddenly the rocket business is serilously competative.

1.  ULA does not develop spacecraft

2.  Or another failure

3.  No chance of this happening in 2008

[Jim]

Nate_Trost - 29/10/2007  11:03 AM

They better be working on Dragon, according to schedule (regardless of how based it is in reality), 13 months from now they need to be able to mount one on top of a Falcon 9.

There won't be a F9 to mount it on yet.  Also the first flight has no Dragon on it

[Nate_Trost]

They are being quiet because everybody is too busy trying to meet extremely aggressive schedules. ULA? Even if SpaceX somehow gets Falcon 9 into service by 2010, they won't be in a position to start trying to steal ULA government business before the middle of next decade at the earliest, COTS notwithstanding. It seems unlikely at this point that we'll ever see an Atlas V Heavy, much less ULA developing a completely new LV. Orbital's proposed Taurus is probably more of a 'threat', but you're not going to see ULA roll their own Delta II replacement.

SpaceX probably has a window of opportunity with COTS and Bigalow. If they miss it, one really has to wonder if they'd be able to win a high enough flight rate on F9 to make it viable.

[Comga]

Jim - 6/11/2007  5:48 PM

Nate_Trost - 29/10/2007  11:03 AM
They better be working on Dragon, according to schedule (regardless of how based it is in reality), 13 months from now they need to be able to mount one on top of a Falcon 9.

There won't be a F9 to mount it on yet.  Also the first flight has no Dragon on it

From the SpaceX website Dragon page;
In fulfillment of the COTS phase I contract, Dragon will perform three cargo demonstration missions:
                                               
Demo  1
Date Q3 2008
Duration 5 hours
Objectives Launch and separate from Falcon 9, orbit Earth, transmit telemetry, receive commands, demonstrate orbital maneuvering and thermal control, re-enter atmosphere, and recover Dragon capsule

It goes on from there to Demos 2 and 3, both of which involve Dragons.
Regardless of how long it will really take, they have announced flights of Dragon commencing in less than 14 months.

[Nate_Trost]

Jim,

I was talking about Q4 08, not this winter. I know the first F9 test flight is sans Dragon. But the first COTS flight with a Dragon is scheduled in the same quarter. Yes, I know they aren't going to be ready in Q4 '08, much less Q1 '09, but that's still the schedule.

My point was countering the assertion that Dragon wasn't really being funded or in development except on paper at this point. Unless the schedule is really beyond a paper fantasy, there's no way they could be ostensibly not be working all-out on Dragon if they are supposed to stack it a little over a year from now.

Comga,

That's out of date, to the best of my knowledge the first Falcon 9 demo flight (originally supposed to be for the "US Government") comes before COTS Flight 1, but both are still publicly scheduled for Q4 '08.

[Jim]

I wasn't talking about this year
There won't be an F9 on the pad, much less launched in 2008

[CFE]

Does anybody have any idea of what the Isp will be for the Merlin IC?  I'd expect an increase of perhaps 10 sec for the vacuum Isp over the ablative Merlin I.  I don't think the Isp will be better than about 315 sec or so.