Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION  (Read 229539 times)

Offline sevenperforce

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DISCUSSION THREAD for the Falcon 9 mission with Thaicom-8.

NET May 26.

UPDATE THREAD:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40182.0

Resources:

SpaceX News Articles from 2006 (Including numerous exclusive Elon interviews):
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21862.0

SpaceX News Articles (Recent):
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/spacex/

=--=

SpaceX GENERAL Forum Section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=45.0 - please use this for general questions NOT specific to this mission.

SpaceX MISSIONS Forum Section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=55.0 - this section is for everything specific to SpaceX missions.



=-=

Presumably this will have the same basic arrangement as the JCSAT landing: same MECO speed and altitude, but with a slightly large propellant reserve. Will be interesting to see whether they use the same three-engine suicide burn; would be beautiful to see that during the day.
« Last Edit: 05/28/2016 09:05 am by input~2 »

Offline EngrDavid

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #1 on: 05/07/2016 04:06 am »
Sorry, could not find the Thaicom discussion page so will post my observation here.
On the same spaceflight launch schedule page, it says the Thaicom flight was moved forward.  A first for SpaceX?

Offline Flying Beaver

Sorry, could not find the Thaicom discussion page so will post my observation here.
On the same spaceflight launch schedule page, it says the Thaicom flight was moved forward.  A first for SpaceX?

The first Iridium launch out of Vandy somewhat recently was moved up from August to July. So no, not a first entirely, but possibly the first time a stage has been reassigned to another payload.

(FYI haven't check my facts, going off memory)
Watched B1019 land in person 21/12/2015.

Offline NovaSilisko

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #3 on: 05/07/2016 07:32 am »
A quiet milestone: assuming some schedule switcharoo doesn't take place, this launch should be host to the 191st through 200th Merlin 1D to fly (counting vacuum versions)

Offline deruch

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #4 on: 05/07/2016 05:57 pm »
Sorry, could not find the Thaicom discussion page so will post my observation here.
On the same spaceflight launch schedule page, it says the Thaicom flight was moved forward.  A first for SpaceX?

The first Iridium launch out of Vandy somewhat recently was moved up from August to July. So no, not a first entirely, but possibly the first time a stage has been reassigned to another payload.

(FYI haven't check my facts, going off memory)

There was a core switch with one of the AsiaSat birds, either -6 or -8.  It was swapped with the core for CRS-4, if I recall correctly. 
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline sunbingfa

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #5 on: 05/07/2016 08:17 pm »
If RTLS result in 60% performance loss, then is it possible to try a RTLS on Thaicomm8 mission? It probably will be low margin but may be possible since Thaicomm8 is less than 3200kg according to Manufacturing information, while the max performance for F9 GTO mission is 8300kg.

Online gongora

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #6 on: 05/07/2016 08:31 pm »
Sorry, could not find the Thaicom discussion page so will post my observation here.
On the same spaceflight launch schedule page, it says the Thaicom flight was moved forward.  A first for SpaceX?

The first Iridium launch out of Vandy somewhat recently was moved up from August to July. So no, not a first entirely, but possibly the first time a stage has been reassigned to another payload.

(FYI haven't check my facts, going off memory)

There was a comment on Reddit that the stage wasn't reassigned, the stage for Thaicom got to McGregor after the one for Eutelsat/ABS, but the flight order got switched.  Don't know how accurate that is.
« Last Edit: 05/08/2016 01:31 am by gongora »

Online rockets4life97

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #7 on: 05/07/2016 08:48 pm »
If RTLS result in 60% performance loss, then is it possible to try a RTLS on Thaicomm8 mission? It probably will be low margin but may be possible since Thaicomm8 is less than 3200kg according to Manufacturing information, while the max performance for F9 GTO mission is 8300kg.

Thaicom 8 weighs less than JCSAT-14, so I think we can safely say that a successful landing on the drone ship is probable. :-)

Online gongora

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #8 on: 05/07/2016 08:51 pm »
If RTLS result in 60% performance loss, then is it possible to try a RTLS on Thaicomm8 mission? It probably will be low margin but may be possible since Thaicomm8 is less than 3200kg according to Manufacturing information, while the max performance for F9 GTO mission is 8300kg.

Thaicom 8 weighs less than JCSAT-14, so I think we can safely say that a successful landing on the drone ship is probable. :-)

I'll wait to see the weather forecast before I bet on that  :)

Online tleski

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #9 on: 05/07/2016 10:05 pm »
A stage was spotted leaving McGregor facility.
People are speculating it is the Thaicom-8 1st stage.
Posted by Keith Wallace in SpaceX Facebook group.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1140023389349373&set=gm.10154211326321318&type=3
« Last Edit: 05/07/2016 10:06 pm by tleski »

Offline OxCartMark

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #10 on: 05/08/2016 01:12 am »
Frustrating that at the supposed production rate the pipeline is not full and there's not already a good selection of F9s waiting at a warehouse near the cape.  We're chronologically far beyond where we should be tracking an individual custom built rocket for a specific flight.  Need to get production going, its not rocket science, its production. That's what we do over here in Detroit. Not sure whether I need to go out and fix the production problem for SpaceX or for Tesla Motors first.

Offline macpacheco

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #11 on: 05/08/2016 03:32 am »
Frustrating that at the supposed production rate the pipeline is not full and there's not already a good selection of F9s waiting at a warehouse near the cape.  We're chronologically far beyond where we should be tracking an individual custom built rocket for a specific flight.  Need to get production going, its not rocket science, its production. That's what we do over here in Detroit. Not sure whether I need to go out and fix the production problem for SpaceX or for Tesla Motors first.
The only time SpaceX did 3 fast paced launches they had the opportunity to stockpile those stages ahead of time.

This is the first time SpaceX is keeping sub 4 week launch intervals without a previously full pipeline.

I bet this will continue until reuse becomes a thing and Hawthorne/McGregor only has to deal with 2nd stages and fairings plus perhaps one first stage for each 5+ launches. Until then production rates will continue to increase, but not enough to keep the whole pipeline full.

In summary, what for you is glass half full, for me is glass 75% full !

We'll get there Grasshopper !
« Last Edit: 05/08/2016 07:06 am by macpacheco »
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Online wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #12 on: 05/08/2016 06:54 am »
Frustrating that at the supposed production rate the pipeline is not full and there's not already a good selection of F9s waiting at a warehouse near the cape.  We're chronologically far beyond where we should be tracking an individual custom built rocket for a specific flight.  Need to get production going, its not rocket science, its production. That's what we do over here in Detroit. Not sure whether I need to go out and fix the production problem for SpaceX or for Tesla Motors first.

How long have you been following Elon Musk led companies.  Stated production rates are aspirational, that's it.

With SpaceX they may not need more than 16 cores a year once re-use is figured out and accepted by customers.

Tesla production rate on th Cather hand 😏
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Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #13 on: 05/08/2016 12:59 pm »
Frustrating that at the supposed production rate the pipeline is not full and there's not already a good selection of F9s waiting at a warehouse near the cape.  We're chronologically far beyond where we should be tracking an individual custom built rocket for a specific flight. 

Not true.  The design has not been static long enough.  There are still issues that have to be fixed that are fleet wide.  Also, what good is it to land stages and not use the inspection data for design updates?
« Last Edit: 05/08/2016 01:00 pm by Jim »

Offline Mike_1179

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #14 on: 05/08/2016 01:37 pm »

Thaicom 8 weighs less than JCSAT-14, so I think we can safely say that a successful landing on the drone ship is probable. :-)

Not if they see something in the post landing inspections that makes them change other aspects of re-entry. If they see, for instance, that re-entry heating was too high to allow re-flight of the stage, perhaps a longer re-entry burn is required, so less prop for landing.

The goal is re-flight, not just recovery

Offline edkyle99

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #15 on: 05/08/2016 03:10 pm »
Frustrating that at the supposed production rate the pipeline is not full and there's not already a good selection of F9s waiting at a warehouse near the cape.  We're chronologically far beyond where we should be tracking an individual custom built rocket for a specific flight.  Need to get production going, its not rocket science, its production. That's what we do over here in Detroit. Not sure whether I need to go out and fix the production problem for SpaceX or for Tesla Motors first.
This is merely "just-in-time" delivery.  ULA, Arianespace, Roskosmos, etc., all use the same methods.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline sevenperforce

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #16 on: 05/08/2016 03:17 pm »
If the thermal loading on these GTO missions is just too high to land without extensive damage, I wonder whether they would add GTO-specific TPS, or even sacrificial TPS.

Offline philw1776

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #17 on: 05/08/2016 05:02 pm »
If the thermal loading on these GTO missions is just too high to land without extensive damage, I wonder whether they would add GTO-specific TPS, or even sacrificial TPS.

Not easily done, but that's beside the point in that the loading is high because of insufficient propellant margins to reduce velocity sufficiently, so adding more mass for TPS reduces these thin margins below what's there.  Rocket equation is an exponential b!tch.
Lori, you have got to tell your friend Elon he can't do that.(FH) He's in our lane! You made us get out of low-Earth orbit, so we've given him that lane, but this is our lane!  We build the big rockets!

Offline sevenperforce

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #18 on: 05/09/2016 01:07 pm »
If the thermal loading on these GTO missions is just too high to land without extensive damage, I wonder whether they would add GTO-specific TPS, or even sacrificial TPS.

Not easily done, but that's beside the point in that the loading is high because of insufficient propellant margins to reduce velocity sufficiently, so adding more mass for TPS reduces these thin margins below what's there.  Rocket equation is an exponential b!tch.
I'm thinking some sort of sprayed or painted-on sacrificial ablative TPS over those specific affected areas, to the tune of a bare fraction of a percent of the dry mass.

Online envy887

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Re: SpaceX Falcon-9 - Thaicom-8 - May 27, 2016 - DISCUSSION
« Reply #19 on: 05/09/2016 06:54 pm »
Mass spent on thermal protection generally gets much better returns than mass spent on retropropulsion propellent.

Still, the JCSAT-14 stage doesn't look overly toasted in the pictures, and we know the SES-9 stage survived a hotter reentry in one piece before running out of prop.

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