...I am of the opinion that the near field isn't FTL and that what people are measuring as FTL is standing energy between their measuring device and the generating circuit.

Good question. Some poeple were also telling me there are anomalies where they thought the near field appears to be traveling faster than light. If so this messes with the quarter wavelenth distance. I'm not sure I necessarily believe it actually moves faster than light but I think I have heard it from more than one source. I also considered the possibility that they develop a standing wave that seems to travel faster than light but can't quite seem to justify that. There is also the possibility that some how virtual particles are responsible for near field ftl behavior. Either way it just means to get the quarter phase delay you have to slightly increase distance to get the light speed limit again. Not 100% sure but it may be like a negative index dielectric.I would just use an oscilloscope with two cables of equal length and measure the distance when the two circuits drop out of phase 1/4 wavelength.On second thought, here is what happens in a phased array. One circuit has to do positive work in the other circuit has to do negative work. this means that one circuit sees the electric field from the other circuit and it flows with it. The other circuit number two sees the electric field from the other circuit but has to work against it. I think what is happening is that when they measure the near field of the other circuit there is increased coupling as you earlier suggested. both circuits want to work with each other's lightspeed delayed electric fields and in the process develop a standing wave which appears to be FTL but just represents the standing energy between them. the simple way to do this then would be to space the circuits 1/4 wavelength assuming that the signal between then travels at the speed of light. in order to keep them at 1/4 of phase relation both circuits requires an applied voltage. 1 circuit requires More voltage than the other to maintain the quarter phase relationship. This is assuming that the near field isn't FTL and that what people are describing as an FTL field is actually standing energy between two circuits.I am of the opinion that the near field isn't FTL and that what people are measuring as FTL is standing energy between their measuring device and the generating circuit.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=9446986378025307299&hl=en&as_sdt=0,26Alexandre A. Martins and Mario J. Pinheiro let’s suppose that we have a potential flow with A = ∇χThis is fundamentally the law of conservation of energy, and it states that the energy of matter plus the energy of this“fictitious” fluid (carrying electromagnetic fields) is constant along a streamline. Hence, the nature of the fluid canenter through this u function, which means here the internal energy per unit mass. The Bernoulli’s integral can alsobe obtained in the presence of a B-field for a particle of fluid flowing along the line of current, since then ∂A/∂t = 0.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=14099488751050058436&hl=en&as_sdt=5,26&sciodt=0,26Takaaki Musha1, Mario J.Pinheiro2It is interesting to note that Eq.(15) points to theexistence of dual forces: one dependent on the fluidangular acceleration (or time-dependent magneticforce), the other dependent on the Lamb-vector timedependency (or time-dependent electric field)

Just one more thing to consider. In the patent they suggest using low frequency in the MHz. This induces less heating of the wires but what allows this is the amazing dielectric, slowing the speed of light between the wires allowing them to be close. The wavelength at c/50MHz=meters/cycle=6 meters is a bit long to space. If we slow the speed of light by a factor of 100 that's only 6cm and 1/4lambda being 1.5cm . I think there is some intricate knowledge in using dielectrics to slow signals also such as frequency dependence and I think magnetic and electric permeability but I'm a bit rusty on it. I guess what got my attention was that you suggested testing them with out dielectric first. If so then getting them in proximity may require higher frequencies in the GHz range. Not sure if this may be problematic. Below is a side note. I was looking up Mario Pinheiro and found these two papers which got my attention. I wonder if there might be a connection. I have always wondered if the "A" vector field might be an induced current in the vacuum. Quote from: Fluidic electrodynamics: Approach to electromagnetic propulsionhttps://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=9446986378025307299&hl=en&as_sdt=0,26Alexandre A. Martins and Mario J. Pinheiro let’s suppose that we have a potential flow with A = ∇χThis is fundamentally the law of conservation of energy, and it states that the energy of matter plus the energy of this“fictitious” fluid (carrying electromagnetic fields) is constant along a streamline. Hence, the nature of the fluid canenter through this u function, which means here the internal energy per unit mass. The Bernoulli’s integral can alsobe obtained in the presence of a B-field for a particle of fluid flowing along the line of current, since then ∂A/∂t = 0.Quote from: General Relativistic Gravity Machine using Electromagneto-Torsion Fieldhttps://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=14099488751050058436&hl=en&as_sdt=5,26&sciodt=0,26Takaaki Musha1, Mario J.Pinheiro2It is interesting to note that Eq.(15) points to theexistence of dual forces: one dependent on the fluidangular acceleration (or time-dependent magneticforce), the other dependent on the Lamb-vector timedependency (or time-dependent electric field)Remember that I was saying that in a normal phased array the magnetic propulsion opposes the electric propulsion and I was assuming they are time dependent.

In order to slow down the fields a dielectric material will work for the capacitive areas of the elements, I believe a ferromagnetic material is needed to slow down the magnetic fields. ( you need to change the permittivity and permeability constants ) This should allow the elements to be closer together and or use a lower frequency.

Yes a normal phased array, the magnetic and electric fields are radiated in the same direction and cancel in the other, the forces on the elements will cancel. With the magnetic element reversed in one of the elements the electric field and magnetic field should radiate in different directions and the forces on the elements should push in the same direction.

On the other hand, it is likely more complicated than that, there is apparently a 'hidden momentum' that comes up when using Lorentz Force formula. According to a few sources that I could find the proper formula to use is the Einstein-Laub equation. So we may be just looking at a wonderful example of this 'hidden momentum'.

Quote from: dustinthewind on 02/20/2019 03:28 amJust one more thing to consider. In the patent they suggest using low frequency in the MHz. This induces less heating of the wires but what allows this is the amazing dielectric, slowing the speed of light between the wires allowing them to be close. The wavelength at c/50MHz=meters/cycle=6 meters is a bit long to space. If we slow the speed of light by a factor of 100 that's only 6cm and 1/4lambda being 1.5cm . I think there is some intricate knowledge in using dielectrics to slow signals also such as frequency dependence and I think magnetic and electric permeability but I'm a bit rusty on it. I guess what got my attention was that you suggested testing them with out dielectric first. If so then getting them in proximity may require higher frequencies in the GHz range. Not sure if this may be problematic. Below is a side note. I was looking up Mario Pinheiro and found these two papers which got my attention. I wonder if there might be a connection. I have always wondered if the "A" vector field might be an induced current in the vacuum. Quote from: Fluidic electrodynamics: Approach to electromagnetic propulsionhttps://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=9446986378025307299&hl=en&as_sdt=0,26Alexandre A. Martins and Mario J. Pinheiro let’s suppose that we have a potential flow with A = ∇χThis is fundamentally the law of conservation of energy, and it states that the energy of matter plus the energy of this“fictitious” fluid (carrying electromagnetic fields) is constant along a streamline. Hence, the nature of the fluid canenter through this u function, which means here the internal energy per unit mass. The Bernoulli’s integral can alsobe obtained in the presence of a B-field for a particle of fluid flowing along the line of current, since then ∂A/∂t = 0.Quote from: General Relativistic Gravity Machine using Electromagneto-Torsion Fieldhttps://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=14099488751050058436&hl=en&as_sdt=5,26&sciodt=0,26Takaaki Musha1, Mario J.Pinheiro2It is interesting to note that Eq.(15) points to theexistence of dual forces: one dependent on the fluidangular acceleration (or time-dependent magneticforce), the other dependent on the Lamb-vector timedependency (or time-dependent electric field)Remember that I was saying that in a normal phased array the magnetic propulsion opposes the electric propulsion and I was assuming they are time dependent. In order to slow down the fields a dielectric material will work for the capacitive areas of the elements, I believe a ferromagnetic material is needed to slow down the magnetic fields. ( you need to change the permittivity and permeability constants ) This should allow the elements to be closer together and or use a lower frequency.Yes a normal phased array, the magnetic and electric fields are radiated in the same direction and cancel in the other, the forces on the elements will cancel. With the magnetic element reversed in one of the elements the electric field and magnetic field should radiate in different directions and the forces on the elements should push in the same direction.On the other hand, it is likely more complicated than that, there is apparently a 'hidden momentum' that comes up when using Lorentz Force formula. According to a few sources that I could find the proper formula to use is the Einstein-Laub equation. So we may be just looking at a wonderful example of this 'hidden momentum'.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=2477405758829577437&hl=en&as_sdt=0,26"In particular,it was shown (Shockley, 1968) that the “hidden linear momentum” has as quantum mechanical analogue the termα · E, where α are Dirac matrices appearing in the hamiltonian form Hψb = i~∂ψ/∂t, where Hb = −ic~α · ∇· is thehamiltonian operator (e.g., Ref. (?)). Although certainly an important issue, the concept of “hidden momentum”needs further clarification (Boyer, 2005)....At the electromagnetic level, Maxwell conceived a dynamical model of a vacuum with hidden matter in motion. Asit is well-known, Einstein’s theory of relativity eradicated the notion of “ether” but later revived its interest in orderto give some physical mean to gij . Minkowski obtained as a mathematical consequence of the Maxwell’s mechanical medium that the Lorentz’s force should be exactly balanced by the divergence of the Maxwell’s tensor in vacuum Tvac minus the rate of change of the Poynting’s vector:"...Einstein and Laub have remarked (Einstein and Laub, 1908) that when Eq. 12 is integrated all over the entire Universethe term ∇ · Tvac must vanishThe exploration of these ideas to propel a spacecraft as an alternative to chemical propulsion has been advancedin the literature, e.g., see Refs. (Brito, 2004; Glen, Murad, and Davis, 2008; Maclay and Forward, 2004; Taylor, 1965; Trammel, 1964), and for the particular configuration of two electric dipoles the first term on the r.h.s. of Eq. 27 due to the near-field may result in propulsion, see Ref. (Obara and Baba, 2000) for a concrete analytical example. Also, propulsion based on Maxwell’s stress tensor have been proposed by Slepian (Slepian, 1949) and Corum et al. (Corum, Dering, Desavento, and Donne, 1999).

Take a look at Maxwell's equations in free space, particularly the del cross E and del cross B terms. The fields are always travelling in the same direction, but orthogonal to each other in terms of field direction.

Hidden momentum refers to situations where the relativistic momentum of moving charges has an effect. A typical example would be a square made out of wire carrying a current and immersed in an electric field, with 2 sides of the square parallel to the electric field. The current is the same along all sides of the square in steady state. The charges are accelerated and decelerated by the electric field as they travel along the sides parallel to the E field. this means that one side has more charges moving slower, and the other has fewer charges moving faster to result in the same current. A naive calculation would determine that the total momentum of the charges is equal and opposite on both of the sides. This all makes perfect sense and seems to add up correctly, but there is a problem: considering the magnetic field generated by the current in the wire and the electric field there is a net linear momentum in the fields. Since this is a quasi-static situation, where center of mass and the fields are not moving, this should not be possible. The missing link is that you have to consider the relativistic energy gained by the faster moving charges, which mean those charges carry more momentum, equal and opposite to that in the fields.

In reality, any material is a collection of charges all bound together. The results that show that electrodynamics always conserves momentum therefore hold, and no amount of placing dielectrics around antennas will change that how much momentum photons carry after they leave any antenna system, or that the recoil felt by the antennas will be equal and opposite to the momentum carried away.

One thing that bothers me is if the electric and magnetic field emanate in opposite directions I wonder if that's even possible. We wouldn't have light any more as light is electro-magnetic. On the other hand I have learned to view light as the sum of the magnetic field to be deposited over infinity, propagating at the speed of light. If you do this you get the corresponding electric field associated with it. In this respect I don't view light as the static electric field so I view that as a separate entity. I went back and looked over the reverse-magnetic phased array diagram and you are correct. It does appear it enhances the magnetic field in one direction and the static electric field in the other direction. The opposite of what a standard phased array would do. Not sure what that means but it is curious.

I say light may just be the propagating of the sum of the magnetic field to be deposited over space because I was looking at the biot-savart equation one day and noticed I could get the electric field for light from it but I had to integrate its magnetic field from infinity to the disturbance and assume it was moving at the speed of light. I got the electric field for light in Purcell's book "Electricity and Magnetism" https://www.amazon.com/Electricity-Magnetism-Edward-M-Purcell/dp/1107014026 appendix H - radiation by an accelerated charge.

One thing that bothers me is if the electric and magnetic field emanate in opposite directions I wonder if that's even possible. We wouldn't have light any more as light is electro-magnetic. On the other hand I have learned to view light as the sum of the magnetic field to be deposited over infinity, propagating at the speed of light. If you do this you get the corresponding electric field associated with it. In this respect I don't view light as the static electric field so I view that as a separate entity.

I went back and looked over the reverse-magnetic phased array diagram and you are correct. It does appear it enhances the magnetic field in one direction and the static electric field in the other direction. The opposite of what a standard phased array would do. Not sure what that means but it is curious.

I suppose there might be more to hidden momentum than I thought. I'm currently re-reading another old paper by Mario Pinheiro 2011

Quote from: meberbs on 02/21/2019 05:41 amIn reality, any material is a collection of charges all bound together. The results that show that electrodynamics always conserves momentum therefore hold, and no amount of placing dielectrics around antennas will change that how much momentum photons carry after they leave any antenna system, or that the recoil felt by the antennas will be equal and opposite to the momentum carried away.It occurs to me that either element by itself will not produce any directional momentum. (radiation in one direction will equal radiation in the other) With two elements the fields will either add or subtract from each other, but not produce any new radiation, so overall this should not produce any net force. If this is true, the electric and magnetic forces from the first element should be acting against the electric and magnetic forces in the circuit of the second element. Time for some circuit simulations.I think I will still go ahead with the build, but my first testing will be targeting the radio transmission/reception directionality. (I have a couple of radios in the 2 meter bandwidth that I can use for this.)

Quote from: elektryx tech on 02/24/2019 06:02 amQuote from: meberbs on 02/21/2019 05:41 amIn reality, any material is a collection of charges all bound together. The results that show that electrodynamics always conserves momentum therefore hold, and no amount of placing dielectrics around antennas will change that how much momentum photons carry after they leave any antenna system, or that the recoil felt by the antennas will be equal and opposite to the momentum carried away.It occurs to me that either element by itself will not produce any directional momentum. (radiation in one direction will equal radiation in the other) With two elements the fields will either add or subtract from each other, but not produce any new radiation, so overall this should not produce any net force. If this is true, the electric and magnetic forces from the first element should be acting against the electric and magnetic forces in the circuit of the second element. Time for some circuit simulations.I think I will still go ahead with the build, but my first testing will be targeting the radio transmission/reception directionality. (I have a couple of radios in the 2 meter bandwidth that I can use for this.)Phased array antennas are well known to cancel the radiation in one direction while amplifying the radiation in another direction due to the phase difference. The forces of the antenna elements on each other are not equal and opposite to each other as has been noted in this thread (and some other similar threads on this site), but such apparent violations of Newton's laws of equal and opposite reaction in electrodynamics were discovered long ago, and resolved when it was realized that the fields themselves could carry momentum and energy. With that, the theory has been shown to be self-consistent, and always conserves momentum.I will not discourage experimenting (unless it is dangerous), but the results of such an experiment are predictable, if you can get everything in phase correctly, and you don't have too much interference from reflections off other objects. For your case, just make sure you are using frequencies and power levels that the Canadian equivalent to the FCC allows you to use.

...Quote from: dustinthewind on 02/22/2019 06:04 amI went back and looked over the reverse-magnetic phased array diagram and you are correct. It does appear it enhances the magnetic field in one direction and the static electric field in the other direction. The opposite of what a standard phased array would do. Not sure what that means but it is curious. I am not sure what you are trying to say here, an oscillating current does not generate a static (unchanging) electric field....

Quote from: dustinthewind on 02/22/2019 06:04 amOne thing that bothers me is if the electric and magnetic field emanate in opposite directions I wonder if that's even possible. We wouldn't have light any more as light is electro-magnetic. On the other hand I have learned to view light as the sum of the magnetic field to be deposited over infinity, propagating at the speed of light. If you do this you get the corresponding electric field associated with it. In this respect I don't view light as the static electric field so I view that as a separate entity. I went back and looked over the reverse-magnetic phased array diagram and you are correct. It does appear it enhances the magnetic field in one direction and the static electric field in the other direction. The opposite of what a standard phased array would do. Not sure what that means but it is curious. I'm not sure what that means either. I think I will set up a radio test, see what the radiation pattern is for something like this. I have a couple radios in the 2 meter band that I can use and don't have to worry about measuring minute forces with that kind of test.Quote from: dustinthewind on 02/22/2019 06:04 amI say light may just be the propagating of the sum of the magnetic field to be deposited over space because I was looking at the biot-savart equation one day and noticed I could get the electric field for light from it but I had to integrate its magnetic field from infinity to the disturbance and assume it was moving at the speed of light. I got the electric field for light in Purcell's book "Electricity and Magnetism" https://www.amazon.com/Electricity-Magnetism-Edward-M-Purcell/dp/1107014026 appendix H - radiation by an accelerated charge. I find it interesting that you had to integrate the magnetic field all the way to infinity. Does that mean that all of space is involved in the magnetic field?

Quote from: meberbs on 02/24/2019 07:08 pm...Quote from: dustinthewind on 02/22/2019 06:04 amI went back and looked over the reverse-magnetic phased array diagram and you are correct. It does appear it enhances the magnetic field in one direction and the static electric field in the other direction. The opposite of what a standard phased array would do. Not sure what that means but it is curious. I am not sure what you are trying to say here, an oscillating current does not generate a static (unchanging) electric field....With time varryinc current when the current stops osculating it stops. At this time it is like a capacitor and there is separated charge. This appearance of separated charge should travel through space at the speed of light. I don't believe it to be the same as the electric field generated by the propagating magnetic field as the electric field generated by the propagating magnetic field is perpendicular to both the magnetic field and the direction of current. The static electric field points toward the separated charge. Regarding my calculation of light from the biot savart equation, I'll have to find my old PDF and post it.

Quote from: dustinthewind on 02/25/2019 03:30 pmQuote from: meberbs on 02/24/2019 07:08 pm...Quote from: dustinthewind on 02/22/2019 06:04 amI went back and looked over the reverse-magnetic phased array diagram and you are correct. It does appear it enhances the magnetic field in one direction and the static electric field in the other direction. The opposite of what a standard phased array would do. Not sure what that means but it is curious. I am not sure what you are trying to say here, an oscillating current does not generate a static (unchanging) electric field....With time varryinc current when the current stops osculating it stops. At this time it is like a capacitor and there is separated charge. This appearance of separated charge should travel through space at the speed of light. I don't believe it to be the same as the electric field generated by the propagating magnetic field as the electric field generated by the propagating magnetic field is perpendicular to both the magnetic field and the direction of current. The static electric field points toward the separated charge. Regarding my calculation of light from the biot savart equation, I'll have to find my old PDF and post it. I guess I left the calculation of light from the Biot-Savart equaiton in my thesis. page 122 to 125.https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286118593_Determining_if_an_axially_rotated_solenoid_will_induce_a_radial_EMF

ou are wrong and Lorentz force and law is now invalidated:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhldn0ef138&feature=youtu.be

Quote from: dustinthewind on 02/25/2019 09:11 pmQuote from: dustinthewind on 02/25/2019 03:30 pmQuote from: meberbs on 02/24/2019 07:08 pm...Quote from: dustinthewind on 02/22/2019 06:04 amI went back and looked over the reverse-magnetic phased array diagram and you are correct. It does appear it enhances the magnetic field in one direction and the static electric field in the other direction. The opposite of what a standard phased array would do. Not sure what that means but it is curious. I am not sure what you are trying to say here, an oscillating current does not generate a static (unchanging) electric field....With time varryinc current when the current stops osculating it stops. At this time it is like a capacitor and there is separated charge. This appearance of separated charge should travel through space at the speed of light. I don't believe it to be the same as the electric field generated by the propagating magnetic field as the electric field generated by the propagating magnetic field is perpendicular to both the magnetic field and the direction of current. The static electric field points toward the separated charge. Regarding my calculation of light from the biot savart equation, I'll have to find my old PDF and post it. I guess I left the calculation of light from the Biot-Savart equaiton in my thesis. page 122 to 125.https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286118593_Determining_if_an_axially_rotated_solenoid_will_induce_a_radial_EMFYou are wrong and Lorentz force and law is now invalidated:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhldn0ef138&feature=youtu.be

What or whose technology are you talking about?