Author Topic: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2  (Read 2435625 times)

Offline cartman

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #200 on: 12/24/2014 12:11 pm »
This is the closest image i could find that does not hide any part of the barge. I also agree that the surface is not gridded.
credit: http://www.reddit.com/user/doersino who has made a script that downloads every image from the webcam.

Offline Mongo62

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #201 on: 12/24/2014 01:52 pm »
Here is a somewhat brightened version of the above image:


Online Dave G

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #202 on: 12/24/2014 02:15 pm »
More enhanced images
« Last Edit: 12/24/2014 02:28 pm by Dave G »

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #203 on: 12/24/2014 02:19 pm »
I wonder if the Carnival people are noticing a sudden upspike in traffic from that particular cam?

Naa, we're a pretty tiny minority.
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Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #204 on: 12/24/2014 02:25 pm »
The extensions don't fold up. It is clear.
Docking at the bay, they don't fold.

They're probably safety nets then. If the Booster is only guaranteed to stay within the outer circle and people might have to be that close to the edge, they'd be required.
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Online Dave G

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #205 on: 12/24/2014 02:40 pm »
This looks like standing water, which would be difficult to achieve on a grid surface.

This got me to thinking, would some amount of standing water be beneficial for landing?

Enough to keep the deck from overheating?

Or would the steam blow-back damage the rocket?
« Last Edit: 12/24/2014 02:43 pm by Dave G »

Offline OxCartMark

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #206 on: 12/24/2014 02:55 pm »
Also notice those relatively smaller blue box on ASDS share same insignia as another pair of blue boxes on ground next to compressed gas trailers, not sure if they are same but looks like same company made them.

Those are absolutely positively Miller brand welders.  http://www.millerwelds.com/products/
Less certain and less important is what in the Miller line they are.  MIG welder?  Stick welder?  Plasma cutter?  Most likely engine driven.

I suppose that they are a normal part of owning and maintaining a ship, or maybe a sign that modifications to the platform are still ongoing.  A more speculative and exotic rumor to start would be that the landing legs have steel foot plates that sit flat against the deck which the securing crew then is able to quickly weld to the deck for the trip back to port.

Edited in second thought: The red vertical pressure cylinders next to the two welders may be to support the welders (Argon, CO2, etc).  If so that's a lot of gas, but I'm not used to working on ship scale welding projects. Or maybe not related to the welders and they are CO2 for fire suppression. Then there's the two horizontal objects that may be connecting the lone welder to the shipping container.  I speculate that that lone welder is being used as an electrical generator to power whatever is going on inside the container, and delving deeper into the low probability speculation pool I'd guess that one of the things in the container is a power distribution panel to all of SpaceX's electrically powered equipment at each end of the ship.

Mark
« Last Edit: 12/24/2014 10:02 pm by OxCartMark »

Offline cambrianera

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #207 on: 12/24/2014 02:57 pm »
This looks like standing water, which would be difficult to achieve on a grid surface.

This got me to thinking, would some amount of standing water be beneficial for landing?

Enough to keep the deck from overheating?

Or would the steam blow-back damage the rocket?
A layer (or a spray/stream) of water is the cheaper and better way to defend the deck from the impinging flame.
IMHO should be enough to avoid overheating of a 5 mm thick plain deck.
(IMHO again) A grid deck is out of question, because water flood becames more difficult and the necessarily thin members of the grid would overheat immediately.
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Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #208 on: 12/24/2014 02:58 pm »
F9 kicks up a huge cloud of deluge water during launch. In one of the earlier launches it practically deluged itself in dirty water and ended up looking like it had been puddle splashed by a passing garbage truck. So a bit of standing water on deck should be no problem.

See the GIF embedded in this article:
http://www.businessinsider.com/falcon-9-launch-recovery-2014-4
« Last Edit: 12/24/2014 03:15 pm by Kabloona »

Offline Ohsin

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #209 on: 12/24/2014 03:14 pm »
Also notice those relatively smaller blue box on ASDS share same insignia as another pair of blue boxes on ground next to compressed gas trailers, not sure if they are same but looks like same company made them.

Those are absolutely positively Miller brand welders.  http://www.millerwelds.com/products/
Less certain and less important is what in the Miller line they are.  MIG welder?  Stick welder?  Plasma cutter?  Most likely engine driven.

I suppose that they are a normal part of owning and maintaining a ship, or maybe a sign that modifications to the platform are still ongoing.  A more speculative and exotic rumor to start would be that the landing legs have steel foot plates that sit flat against the deck which the securing crew then is able to quickly weld to the deck for the trip back to port.

Mark

Bravo ! That looks like a match  :)

This looks like standing water, which would be difficult to achieve on a grid surface.

This got me to thinking, would some amount of standing water be beneficial for landing?

Enough to keep the deck from overheating?

Or would the steam blow-back damage the rocket?
A layer (or a spray/stream) of water is the cheaper and better way to defend the deck from the impinging flame.
IMHO should be enough to avoid overheating of a 5 mm thick plain deck.
(IMHO again) A grid deck is out of question, because water flood becames more difficult and the necessarily thin members of the grid would overheat immediately.

Following system uses grid deck to get rid of spillage. And in their testing it was discovered that the Aluminum alloy grid actually got heat treated(with fire on board and  resulting water spray) and became stronger than before! But yeah in case of our barge it is not grid deck.

http://www.aluminium-offshore.com/helideck-fire-fighting
« Last Edit: 12/24/2014 03:21 pm by Ohsin »
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Offline garcianc

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #210 on: 12/24/2014 03:18 pm »
DSC00206.JPG, 207 and 208 are a sequence of shots of the "interesting" white tubes on their carrier flatbeds.  The set on the left appear to be labeled "Helium Compressed", and the right carrier I have trouble reading - Nitrogen, perhaps?

A blue and green rigs of some sort appear to their right.  DSC00210.JPG includes three more green rigs that are smaller.

Thanks for the pics.

Those are not technically flatbed trucks. They are compressed gas tube trailers. I agree that the one on the left with the red dashed line markings says "Helium Compressed" and the one on the right more than likely says "Nitrogen Compressed".

The larger rigs are rough terrain forklifts and the smaller rigs are flood light trailers.

Offline OxCartMark

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #211 on: 12/24/2014 03:27 pm »
I've not been one that buys into the idea that water is necessary to cool the deck during landing.  I don't believe the exhaust beyond the engine is that hot due to expansion, I don't believe the exposure time is that long, I don't see where the heated area is required to bear weight (long legs), a simple static pool of water would quickly be blown away, and if there is a vision system water spray would obfuscate vision.  I'm leaning more toward the securing crew using the deluge guns to cool the deck so they don't melt their reebock soles.   Now with that said to establish my belief and with the following question maybe not directly related to it... I'm wondering in a normal launch how much is the water actually needed to cool surfaces to avoid damage and how much of the need for water is to perform the function of damping reflected sound / shock waves?  Isn't the sound suppression function the larger portion of the need but those advocating for cooling water here perceive that its needed for cooling?

Mark

Offline cambrianera

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #212 on: 12/24/2014 03:29 pm »

(IMHO again) A grid deck is out of question, because water flood becames more difficult and the necessarily thin members of the grid would overheat immediately.

Well not out of question following system uses grid deck to get rid of spillage. And in their testing it was discovered that the Aluminum alloy grid actually got heat treated(with fire on board and  resulting water spray) and became stronger than before!

http://www.aluminium-offshore.com/helideck-fire-fighting

Completely different scenario.
A fuel spill can develop in the worst case a temperature of 1000 C, with slow heat transfer; time is ten seconds to some minutes. Still water spray is foreseen to avoid grid melting, and high conductivity of aluminium is positive in this case.
Rocket exhaust is more similar to liquid steel impingement (I worked in the steel industry) higher tmperatures and high heat transfer.
Very short exposure (few seconds) is the only thing that allows standing this kind of abuse with "normal" materials.

And the real danger isn't melting the deck, but deforming it after a single landing.
« Last Edit: 12/24/2014 03:31 pm by cambrianera »
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Offline garcianc

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #213 on: 12/24/2014 03:48 pm »
I've not been one that buys into the idea that water is necessary to cool the deck during landing.

I agree. Unless the barge brings with it lots of fresh water from shore, I would not want to spray salt water on a perfectly good (slightly used) rocket.
Other reasons against the idea:
a. water deluge was not used in testing at McGregor (fly/land what you test, remember?)
b. accidental hit of water stream while landing might push the stage off the barge or make it unstable
c. water might interfere with radar or other guidance

The water cannons might be there as a precaution in case of an accident. Or, who knows? maybe to spray in the air (pointing outboard) in celebration as the stage is sailing into port. :)


Online Lars-J

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #214 on: 12/24/2014 05:23 pm »

White-balanced a little:

And I think this proves rather conclusively that the deck surface is gridded, since we can see through it at this angle even.

Offline Eer

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #215 on: 12/24/2014 05:27 pm »
Ok - more pictures.

DSC00212 and DSC00213 are attempts to get something of the barge deck and the railing on the far side.
DSC00214 and DSC00215 are focused on the escort ships' superstructure and antennae.
DSC00216 and DSC00217 focus on the tug and its antennae.
DSC00218 and DSC00219 focus on the stern half of the barge deck.
DSC00220 sneaks a peek through the two escorts to the containers on the bow of the deck of the barge.

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #216 on: 12/24/2014 05:30 pm »

White-balanced a little:

And I think this proves rather conclusively that the deck surface is gridded, since we can see through it at this angle even.

What are you seeing through it? I just see reflections from the lights.
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Offline Eer

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #217 on: 12/24/2014 05:48 pm »
More pics.

DSC00221, DSC00222, DSC00225 - three more shots of the stern of the barge deck.
DSC00226 - pole marker on the bridge identifying the location where these were taken.
DSC00227, DSC00228, DSC00229 - access ramp to the deck, and panning right with a little overlap.
DSC00230 - another pole marker
DSC00231, DSC00232 - that shot of the port bow quarter, and a sister shot.
DSC00233, DSC00234, DSC00235 - panning right to left, Tug, deck, dock area

Online PreferToLurk

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #218 on: 12/24/2014 05:56 pm »

White-balanced a little:

And I think this proves rather conclusively that the deck surface is gridded, since we can see through it at this angle even.

Disagree completely. You are simply seeing the old paint job showing through a bit.   The reason you don't see anything on the extensions is because they are new material added to the barge, and as such don't have an old paint job to show through.  All this deck needs is a second coat of black paint over the old deck and the illusion would disappear.

This was discussed further up thread, and while not definitive, is (IMHO) by far the simplest explanation for the observed "transparency" to the deck below.

Offline Eer

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 2
« Reply #219 on: 12/24/2014 06:21 pm »
Ok - that's it for the Sony Handycam still images.

I have a small group of ACVHD video streams (probably 100MB total, the largest is about 80MB) but the site won't let me upload an MTS file.  I'll have to see if I can find an app to convert the video (I'm away from home where most of my video editing software is to be found).

Also, I have a pile of Canon stills - higher resolution, but not as much zoom as the Sony shots.  Rather than upload them all, if you have an area you'd like to see in more detail from the Canon shots, tell me the Sony image that's closest and I'll find and upload / PM the corresponding Canon shot.

Hope these have been useful.

As we drove away from the site, a truck passed us with a large steel-winged structure - I madly grabbed for my camera, my wife who was on the phone with a consulting customer started swearing at me to stop that, and so I got her to take the picture.

My guess is it's nothing, but since she went to all the trouble, here it is.

You kind of had to be there ...

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