Author Topic: Commercial Crew Cost Analyses & Discussion  (Read 34964 times)

Online woods170

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Re: Commercial Crew Cost Analyses & Discussion
« Reply #60 on: 01/12/2015 06:57 pm »
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2014-09-16-Boeing-CST-100-Selected-as-Next-American-Spacecraft
Quote
HOUSTON, Sept. 16, 2014 – Boeing [NYSE: BA] will receive an award of $4.2 billion from NASA to build and fly the United States’ next passenger spacecraft. [...]
Under the Commercial Crew Transportation (CCtCap) phase of the program, Boeing will build three CST-100s at the company’s Commercial Crew Processing Facility at Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

Since they're guaranteed at least 4 flights (not incl. pad abort), I'm assuming there's some kind of reuse going on. I'm feeling pretty confident in that, but if somebody's sitting on a reference to new capsules on every mission, please share.
That's not quite right. Each entrant is guaranteed two (as in 2) flights, with an option to fly six (as in 6) per entrant.
With Boeing building three CST-100 craft and them having only two guaranteed ISS crew missions I'm not ready to accept that CST-100 will be re-used during CCtCAP.
Perhaps when the number of ISS crew missions goes beyond the guaranteed two per entrant, but otherwise CST-100 will probably be single-use, much like is now the case with CRS Dragon.
For the record: I don't see re-use of Dragon 2 either on CCtCAP. Probably all-new for each ISS crew mission as well.
« Last Edit: 01/12/2015 07:00 pm by woods170 »

Offline arachnitect

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Re: Commercial Crew Cost Analyses & Discussion
« Reply #61 on: 01/12/2015 07:15 pm »
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2014-09-16-Boeing-CST-100-Selected-as-Next-American-Spacecraft
Quote
HOUSTON, Sept. 16, 2014 – Boeing [NYSE: BA] will receive an award of $4.2 billion from NASA to build and fly the United States’ next passenger spacecraft. [...]
Under the Commercial Crew Transportation (CCtCap) phase of the program, Boeing will build three CST-100s at the company’s Commercial Crew Processing Facility at Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

Since they're guaranteed at least 4 flights (not incl. pad abort), I'm assuming there's some kind of reuse going on. I'm feeling pretty confident in that, but if somebody's sitting on a reference to new capsules on every mission, please share.
That's not quite right. Each entrant is guaranteed two (as in 2) flights, with an option to fly six (as in 6) per entrant.
With Boeing building three CST-100 craft and them having only two guaranteed ISS crew missions I'm not ready to accept that CST-100 will be re-used during CCtCAP.
Perhaps when the number of ISS crew missions goes beyond the guaranteed two per entrant, but otherwise CST-100 will probably be single-use, much like is now the case with CRS Dragon.
For the record: I don't see re-use of Dragon 2 either on CCtCAP. Probably all-new for each ISS crew mission as well.

Unmanned test, manned test, and at least two post-certification missions. What am I missing?

Offline su27k

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Re: Commercial Crew Cost Analyses & Discussion
« Reply #62 on: 08/31/2018 02:20 am »
Some random musing about Commercial Crew cost.

Just saw this on the news: India says manned space mission to cost $1.4 bln, the same article says China spent $2.62 billion up to its first manned flight.

Latest Commercial Crew cost accounting from NASA FY19 budget shows the following:
SpaceX: $1.741B
Boeing: $2.635B
The numbers includes all the NASA investment in CCDev1/2, CCiCAP and CCtCAP. For CCtCAP, it includes all milestone payments (including those not yet completed), but excludes Post Certification Missions and Special Studies.

I think this clearly shows just how cost effective public private partnership are, even when the government is footing most of the bills. SpaceX is only 20% more expensive than India and cheaper than China, while Boeing is actually on par with the Chinese cost.
« Last Edit: 08/31/2018 02:24 am by su27k »

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Commercial Crew Cost Analyses & Discussion
« Reply #63 on: 08/31/2018 06:51 pm »
Some random musing about Commercial Crew cost.

Just saw this on the news: India says manned space mission to cost $1.4 bln, the same article says China spent $2.62 billion up to its first manned flight.

Latest Commercial Crew cost accounting from NASA FY19 budget shows the following:
SpaceX: $1.741B
Boeing: $2.635B
The numbers includes all the NASA investment in CCDev1/2, CCiCAP and CCtCAP. For CCtCAP, it includes all milestone payments (including those not yet completed), but excludes Post Certification Missions and Special Studies.

I think this clearly shows just how cost effective public private partnership are, even when the government is footing most of the bills. SpaceX is only 20% more expensive than India and cheaper than China, while Boeing is actually on par with the Chinese cost.
.
Slight dis-agreement. You are comparing 3 person vehicles (China & India) to 7 person vehicles (SX & B).

Both China & India are constrained in their vehicle crew size due to their current less capable hypergolic launchers (LM-2F & GSLV-III).

Offline SWGlassPit

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Re: Commercial Crew Cost Analyses & Discussion
« Reply #64 on: 08/31/2018 07:00 pm »
When you compare cost, you also need to compare currency and purchasing power parity differences.  How much does an engineer or a technician in the US cost vs one in India or China?

Offline Comga

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Re: Commercial Crew Cost Analyses & Discussion
« Reply #65 on: 08/31/2018 11:10 pm »
When you compare cost, you also need to compare currency and purchasing power parity differences.  How much does an engineer or a technician in the US cost vs one in India or China?

Yes and no
The cost is the cost, when converted to dollars,as much as once can establish a cost for Chinese development that uses their armed forces.
The main point, however, is that SpaceX, and even Boeing, are being cost competitive, even cost dominant, while using well paid American engineers and other staff.
That's the triumph of "commercial space".
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

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