Author Topic: Senate CJS Appropriation Bill Full Committee Markup June 5th at 10 AM  (Read 65192 times)

Offline yg1968

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« Last Edit: 06/04/2014 02:24 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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June 3rd Hearing has started.

Here is an image via Twitter:
https://twitter.com/SenateApprops/status/473841628038578177/photo/1
« Last Edit: 06/04/2014 02:24 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Mikulski says that NASA would get $17.9B under the Senate's proposed CJS Appropriation bill. Commercial crew would get $805M. SLS would get $1.7B. ISS operations would get $3B.
« Last Edit: 06/03/2014 03:39 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Shelby says that there is language requiring transparency for the commercial crew program (it's not clear what he means by that).
« Last Edit: 06/03/2014 03:22 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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The bill passed the subcommittee by a voice vote (no objections).
« Last Edit: 06/03/2014 03:14 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Archived audio from the June 3rd hearing (NASA starts at 29:40):
http://www.appropriations.senate.gov/webcast/cjs-subcommittee-fy15-markup
« Last Edit: 06/04/2014 02:20 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Quote from: CJS Appropriation Bill Summary
No agency represents the Nationís scientific prowess like the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). The dream of space inspires schoolchildren to study science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. NASA scientists and their private sector and university partners are peering into the big bang and the origins of the universe, drilling into rocks on Mars, researching cures for salmonella on the International Space Station, building the vehicles that will let humans explore beyond low earth orbit, preparing to analyze samples from the Sun, and looking back to Earth to understand and protect our planet. The $17.9 billion in the bill for NASA will preserve a NASA portfolio balanced among science, aeronautics, technology, and human space flight investments. Moreover, it will keep NASA in the forefront of innovation, inspiring private companies to build new crew transportation, and fueling a new satellite servicing industry that can revive, refuel, and rejuvenate defunct communications satellites. The amount provided for NASA is $439 million above the Presidentís request and $254 million above the fiscal year 2014 enacted level.

http://www.appropriations.senate.gov/news/fy15-cjs-subcommittee-markup-bill-summary

Offline yg1968

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Shelby's statement relating to NASA:

http://www.appropriations.senate.gov/news/shelby-statement-commerce-justice-science-fy15-appropriations-bill-markup

Quote
In addition, the subcommittee recommendation includes nearly $18 billion for NASA.

The bill maintains focus on efforts to develop a heavy lift launch vehicle, or SLS, and preserve the mission schedule for a 2017 launch by requiring NASA to follow its own internal guidance regarding joint confidence levels in future funding requests.

In order to maintain the schedule for a 2017 launch date, the bill includes $1.7 billion for SLS rocket development.

The recommendation also includes funding for ongoing activities of the International Space Station and other important science research missions.

I want to commend the Chair for working with me to include language that provides greater accountability and budgetary transparency in the commercial crew program and future commercial cargo missions.

We must ensure that taxpayers are getting the best value for their dollar and I believe that this language will make that happen.
« Last Edit: 06/03/2014 03:40 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Lar

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Shelby's statement relating to NASA:

http://www.appropriations.senate.gov/news/shelby-statement-commerce-justice-science-fy15-appropriations-bill-markup

Quote
In addition, the subcommittee recommendation includes nearly $18 billion for NASA.

The bill maintains focus on efforts to develop a heavy lift launch vehicle, or SLS, and preserve the mission schedule for a 2017 launch by requiring NASA to follow its own internal guidance regarding joint confidence levels in future funding requests.

In order to maintain the schedule for a 2017 launch date, the bill includes $1.7 billion for SLS rocket development.

The recommendation also includes funding for ongoing activities of the International Space Station and other important science research missions.

I want to commend the Chair for working with me to include language that provides greater accountability and budgetary transparency in the commercial crew program and future commercial cargo missions.

We must ensure that taxpayers are getting the best value for their dollar and I believe that this language will make that happen.

I'd be more concerned about greater accountability and budgetary transparency (along with "taxpayers getting the best value for their dollar") in other parts of the program than Commercial Cargo or Crew, which are huge successes in terms of value for dollar. But that's just me.
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Offline yg1968

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« Last Edit: 06/04/2014 02:19 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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The bill now goes to the full committee which has scheduled a hearing for Thursday at 10AM:
http://www.appropriations.senate.gov/event/full-committee-markup-cjs-and-thud

Offline yg1968

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Shelby says that there is language requiring transparency for the commercial crew program (it's not clear what he means by that).

I had a feeling this would be bad news. Shelby is requiring full-cost accounting for commercial crew and cargo:
http://yellowhammernews.com/nationalpolitics/big-news-huntsville-shelby-announces-1-7-billion-space-launch-system/

See this link as to why this is bad news for commercial crew and cargo (it increases paperwork tremendously):
http://www.space-access.org/updates/sasalert060414.html

See also this tweet (Simberg is calling it a poison pill for commercial crew and cargo):
https://twitter.com/Rand_Simberg/status/474301055027531777
« Last Edit: 06/04/2014 10:23 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Prober

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Shelby says that there is language requiring transparency for the commercial crew program (it's not clear what he means by that).

I had a feeling this would be bad news. Shelby is requiring full-cost accounting for commercial crew and cargo:
http://yellowhammernews.com/nationalpolitics/big-news-huntsville-shelby-announces-1-7-billion-space-launch-system/

See this link as to why this is bad news for commercial crew and cargo:
http://www.space-access.org/updates/sasalert060414.html

See also this tweet:
https://twitter.com/Rand_Simberg/status/474301055027531777

NASA is getting decent increases

Here is a quick breakdown of NASA funding in the subcommitteeís appropriations bill:
◾NASA is funded at $17.9 billion, which is $254 million (1.4%) above its current funding level.
◾Space exploration is funded at $4.4 billion, a $254 million (6.2%) increase above the current level, including $1.7 billion for the SLS Rocket, $1.2 billion for the Orion Capsule, and $805 million for commercial crew.
◾The bill includes language requiring NASA to ensure that companies participating in the competition for the development of Commercial Crew launch vehicles be required to submit certified cost and pricing data.
◾The bill includes language requiring NASA to demand certified cost and pricing data for the new round of contracts for future cargo resupply missions.

But while these men and their companies are worthy of much of the praise being heaped upon them, itís important to keep in mind that over 90% of the money being spent on the Commercial Crew program is coming out of the pockets of the taxpayers, not from the private companies themselves.


if true its skewed the wrong direction. :(
« Last Edit: 06/04/2014 10:23 pm by Prober »
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Offline butters

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So NASA is getting a 10% discount on crew transport for being an early adopter. Kickstarter would have thrown in a free T-shirt.

Offline JBF

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Can anyone clarify exactly what is certified cost and pricing data?
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Offline butters

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Can anyone clarify exactly what is certified cost and pricing data?

I don't know what certification is exactly, but I think it involves two years, a staff of 100, and $60M.

I'm in a snarky mood today.

Offline Coastal Ron

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But while these men and their companies are worthy of much of the praise being heaped upon them, itís important to keep in mind that over 90% of the money being spent on the Commercial Crew program is coming out of the pockets of the taxpayers, not from the private companies themselves.


if true its skewed the wrong direction. :(

What is the source for your claim that "90% of the money being spent on the Commercial Crew program is coming out of the pockets of the taxpayers, not from the private companies themselves"?

I ask because on the COTS program NASA only ended up paying for 47% of the total cost for the SpaceX system, and 43% of the Orbital system.

And based on comments we've heard from NASA, we know that Boeing has not been co-investing a significant amount (but we don't know the value), which means that both SpaceX and Sierra Nevada have been perceived as co-investing a significant amount.  Still I'd think that Boeing would be co-investing more than just 10%, which is why your claim seems suspect.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline yg1968

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Can anyone clarify exactly what is certified cost and pricing data?

It's explained in the link that I provided.

http://www.space-access.org/updates/sasalert060414.html

Quote
To be absolutely clear, imposing full FARs cost-plus contract-type accounting controls on a commercial-style operation increases costs from 50% to 200%, depending on the size and details of the commercial operation.  It will also delay the commercial operation for months or longer while the intensely detailed account-for-every-rivet procedures are being imposed.

It also potentially reveals to both domestic and international rivals a great deal of competition-sensitive confidential commercial information.

Offline yg1968

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But while these men and their companies are worthy of much of the praise being heaped upon them, itís important to keep in mind that over 90% of the money being spent on the Commercial Crew program is coming out of the pockets of the taxpayers, not from the private companies themselves.


if true its skewed the wrong direction. :(

What is the source for your claim that "90% of the money being spent on the Commercial Crew program is coming out of the pockets of the taxpayers, not from the private companies themselves"?

I ask because on the COTS program NASA only ended up paying for 47% of the total cost for the SpaceX system, and 43% of the Orbital system.

And based on comments we've heard from NASA, we know that Boeing has not been co-investing a significant amount (but we don't know the value), which means that both SpaceX and Sierra Nevada have been perceived as co-investing a significant amount.  Still I'd think that Boeing would be co-investing more than just 10%, which is why your claim seems suspect.

It was mentionned in a House hearing. But this was on average. Boeing is believed to have invested very little in the CST-100. SpaceX much more. I believe that skin in the game will be more important for CCtCap.
« Last Edit: 06/05/2014 03:34 am by yg1968 »

Offline RocketEconomist327

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<snip>

But while these men and their companies are worthy of much of the praise being heaped upon them, itís important to keep in mind that over 90% of the money being spent on the Commercial Crew program is coming out of the pockets of the taxpayers, not from the private companies themselves.

Not true.  In the case of SpaceX its about 50/50. 

What ticks off a lot of people inside the beltway is how SpaceX is using its CRS money.  It isn't "profit" but being recycled into the Commercial Crew Effort.  This is how SpaceX is advancing so rapidly.  And on a side note - Boeing does not have a lot of its own skin the Commercial Crew game.

The COTS model works.  Don't fall for the FUD.

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You can talk about all the great things you can do, or want to do, in space; but unless the rocket scientists get a sound understanding of economics (and quickly), the US space program will never achieve the greatness it should.

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