Author Topic: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2  (Read 523429 times)

Offline sublimemarsupial

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #400 on: 06/19/2014 06:20 pm »

1) Don't believe any of the pricing info you think you know, especially on Dragon+Falcon.


Why not? SpaceX has signed a contract with NASA for its CRS deliveries that anyone can access that lists the prices per Dragon+Falcon mission exactly in line with what we think we know.

Offline Jim

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #401 on: 06/19/2014 06:37 pm »

Why not? SpaceX has signed a contract with NASA for its CRS deliveries that anyone can access that lists the prices per Dragon+Falcon mission exactly in line with what we think we know.

The prices are redacted in the public releases of the CRS contracts

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #402 on: 06/19/2014 07:16 pm »

Why not? SpaceX has signed a contract with NASA for its CRS deliveries that anyone can access that lists the prices per Dragon+Falcon mission exactly in line with what we think we know.

The prices are redacted in the public releases of the CRS contracts
I though the combined prices for all the launches in the CRS contracts (per provider) are known.
NASA has ordered eight flights valued at about $1.9 billion from Orbital and 12 flights valued at about $1.6 billion from SpaceX. Not sure what is unknown here...

Offline Jim

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #403 on: 06/19/2014 07:54 pm »

I though the combined prices for all the launches in the CRS contracts (per provider) are known.
NASA has ordered eight flights valued at about $1.9 billion from Orbital and 12 flights valued at about $1.6 billion from SpaceX. Not sure what is unknown here...


That was the maximum price, the actual per mission (per kg) is not known

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #404 on: 06/19/2014 08:20 pm »

I though the combined prices for all the launches in the CRS contracts (per provider) are known.
NASA has ordered eight flights valued at about $1.9 billion from Orbital and 12 flights valued at about $1.6 billion from SpaceX. Not sure what is unknown here...


That was the maximum price, the actual per mission (per kg) is not known
Well at least we know that it cant be more than that then ;)

Offline catdlr

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #405 on: 06/19/2014 09:43 pm »
Boeing Details Its Plans for CST-100 Assembly at Kennedy

The Boeing Company anticipates using the Orbiter Processing Facility 3 and adjacent engine shop as the main manufacturing and assembly facility for the CST-100 spacecraft now in development.

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Offline Prober

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #406 on: 06/19/2014 10:46 pm »
So if we sum thing up...Boeing & SpaceX both have pressure hulls built, plus a couple of mock ups.

Would that be agreeable?

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Offline guckyfan

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #407 on: 06/20/2014 01:58 am »
So if we sum thing up...Boeing & SpaceX both have pressure hulls built, plus a couple of mock ups.

Would that be agreeable?

It sounds like they are head to head and I think they are not. That Dragon V2 is well advanced from the "pressure hull" stage.

Online QuantumG

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #408 on: 06/20/2014 02:05 am »
How so?

I think SpaceX's considerable lead has been eaten up by all this v2 nonsense.

I think that was by nefarious design.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Online notsorandom

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #409 on: 06/20/2014 03:31 am »
Indeed Falcon and Dragon are quite different from the COTS-D proposal and what Elon talked about before the Augustine committee. Of course they still thought parachutes were the way to go back then too.

Offline Comga

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #410 on: 06/20/2014 05:25 am »
How so?

I think SpaceX's considerable lead has been eaten up by all this v2 nonsense.

I think that was by nefarious design.

"nefarious"?
On whose part?

(I might use nefarious to describe the combining of "V" and "2" on a rocket project.  :P  Nefarious or unaware)
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Online QuantumG

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #411 on: 06/20/2014 09:05 am »
Indeed Falcon and Dragon are quite different from the COTS-D proposal and what Elon talked about before the Augustine committee. Of course they still thought parachutes were the way to go back then too.

Parachutes, for capsule landing, are still the way to go. That's why the v2 still has them.

Vertical landing is great, and I too look forward to the day when a stage flies back to the launch site and lands on its tail as God and Robert Heinlein intended, but for Dragon it's just a boondoggle. It's not "safe", it's not "how a 21st century spaceship should land" or whatever stupid sales gimmick they're using now. Considering that they're still going with toxic propellants, I don't think it's even sensible. Why the double standard? Because those stages are supposed to be able to be restacked and refly the same day (eventually), or at least the same week. There's absolutely no need for a crew vehicle to be able to do that. Ya want pinpoint landing? Buy an off-the-shelf GPS guided parachute. Ya want softer landings? Use airbags or a parawing.

They'll never get back the years they've wasted developing the SuperDracos.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Mader Levap

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #412 on: 06/20/2014 09:21 am »
They'll never get back the years they've wasted developing the SuperDracos.
Then propose how they would abort without SuperDracos.
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Offline docmordrid

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #413 on: 06/20/2014 09:22 am »
^^ this

Having been a skydiver, the confidence that parachutes have fewer failure modes than a cluster of redundant,  pressure fed, hypergolic engines is unfounded. Are mortars 100%? Doubt it. Canopies collapse, drogues fail, canopy lines tangle, secondaries tangle with primaries and sometimes s*** just happens.
« Last Edit: 06/20/2014 09:25 am by docmordrid »
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Online QuantumG

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #414 on: 06/20/2014 10:21 am »
Yeah? Well, rockets explode and take entire vehicles with them.

If you want reliability, use a solid.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline JBF

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #415 on: 06/20/2014 10:30 am »
They'll never get back the years they've wasted developing the SuperDracos.
Then propose how they would abort without SuperDracos.

Exactly, they had to develop an abort system. At that point they had a choice, throw it away or dual purpose it.
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Offline tobi453

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #416 on: 06/20/2014 10:35 am »
The toxic propellant at landing is definitely an issue.

Also the long term goal is Mars, how do you make N2H4/N2O4 easily on Mars? I think they need to look for another solution in the long term.

But the same is true for a solid, how do make/fill a solid on mars?

Offline Kryten

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #417 on: 06/20/2014 10:46 am »
It sounds like they are head to head and I think they are not. That Dragon V2 is well advanced from the "pressure hull" stage.
Isn't CST? They revealed the pressure hull three years ago, I can't imagine they haven't done anything with it since.

Offline Star One

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #418 on: 06/20/2014 10:58 am »

It sounds like they are head to head and I think they are not. That Dragon V2 is well advanced from the "pressure hull" stage.
Isn't CST? They revealed the pressure hull three years ago, I can't imagine they haven't done anything with it since.

A few articles I saw around the time of Dragon V2 announcement were quoting CST-100 as being neck & neck with Space X.

Offline sghill

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #419 on: 06/20/2014 01:17 pm »
The toxic propellant at landing is definitely an issue.

Please name a propellant that is not toxic and can be stored for extended periods of time.  To slam any company for making a chemical reaction based engine (terrestrial or aerospace for that matter) is just a thread troll.

Handling toxic propellants is something you do every day when you go to the pump.  That's why we have gas tanks.  This is a non-issue.

And as far as solids fuels being safer than liquids, the body count comes down in favor of liquids.
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