Author Topic: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2  (Read 523285 times)

Offline Lars_J

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6161
  • California
  • Liked: 665
  • Likes Given: 195
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #140 on: 01/30/2014 06:29 am »
Exactly. Doing it during construction is one thing. Between reuses it is a *whole* new ballgame.

Offline BrightLight

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1343
  • Northern New Mexico
  • Liked: 243
  • Likes Given: 367
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #141 on: 01/30/2014 04:10 pm »
If its welded and they do not use removable fasteners, how will they de-weld the clam-shell?

Online RonM

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
  • Atlanta, Georgia USA
  • Liked: 1488
  • Likes Given: 1128
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #142 on: 01/30/2014 04:46 pm »
What gives you that impression? (that they would open it up)

Doing so would be terribly inefficient. There is going to be so much wiring, pipes, and other interfaces that surround and connect the top part of the pressure vessel from the bottom part. Madness.

Just see how complex the Orion systems are (a similar design), and they aren't even done installing everything needed for EFT-1.

What makes me think that they will open the entire clamshell for access is Boeing's direct statement in the slide included in this post where they say  "Clam Shell CM Design allows easy hardware integration"
Frankly, I was amazed to have it shown that Boeing can do this.

I don't know why you would be amazed Boeing can do this. They are a major aerospace company.

If their engineers think the clamshell concept is better than how Orion is setup, it's a matter of engineering to get it to work. The proof, of course, will be in testing.

Offline Comga

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4608
  • Liked: 1846
  • Likes Given: 1549
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #143 on: 01/30/2014 05:22 pm »
If its welded and they do not use removable fasteners, how will they de-weld the clam-shell?
Read this post.
"The clamshell structure is weldless."
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline BrightLight

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1343
  • Northern New Mexico
  • Liked: 243
  • Likes Given: 367
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #144 on: 01/30/2014 07:41 pm »
If its welded and they do not use removable fasteners, how will they de-weld the clam-shell?
Read this post.
"The clamshell structure is weldless."
TY

Offline Lar

  • Fan boy at large
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11662
  • Saw Gemini live on TV
  • A large LEGO storage facility ... in Michigan
  • Liked: 8779
  • Likes Given: 7382
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #145 on: 01/30/2014 11:07 pm »
Also CST doesn't have to use its LAS to get into orbit like DC does.

I'm not sure I see how that's a drawback.. it seems like an efficiency to me. DC either aborts and uses the engines to do the abort, or doesn't abort and uses the engines to achieve orbit.  CST-100 throws away perfectly good engines unless they are needed in the abort. Those engines, not being used much, are likely to be less reliable on average than engines that get used a lot. All IMHO anyway.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline matthewbot

  • Member
  • Posts: 30
  • Liked: 7
  • Likes Given: 31
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #146 on: 01/30/2014 11:12 pm »
CST-100 may have an Abort-to-Orbit mode, where if the second stage under-performs by a small amount the LAS fires and allows the mission to continue, whereas DC might be forced to deorbit under the same scenario.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32636
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 11494
  • Likes Given: 340
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #147 on: 01/31/2014 12:39 am »
Those engines, not being used much, are likely to be less reliable on average than engines that get used a lot.

Not true at all for pressure fed thrusters

Offline Comga

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4608
  • Liked: 1846
  • Likes Given: 1549
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #148 on: 01/31/2014 06:12 am »
Also CST doesn't have to use its LAS to get into orbit like DC does.

I'm not sure I see how that's a drawback.. it seems like an efficiency to me. DC either aborts and uses the engines to do the abort, or doesn't abort and uses the engines to achieve orbit.  CST-100 throws away perfectly good engines unless they are needed in the abort. (snip)
Jim responded and objected to your last sentence. (which I did not quote above)

I am responding in support of the remaining bulk of your post.

It makes sense to me, too, to use the engines for two purposes that cannot overlap.

Someone might object that giving them two tasks makes them less than optimum for either task, and maximizing their performance and reliability as a LAS is a standard goal.  It doesn't have to be.
« Last Edit: 01/31/2014 06:12 am by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline joek

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3128
  • Liked: 874
  • Likes Given: 444
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #149 on: 01/31/2014 04:15 pm »
I'm not sure I see how that's a drawback.. it seems like an efficiency to me. DC either aborts and uses the engines to do the abort, or doesn't abort and uses the engines to achieve orbit.  CST-100 throws away perfectly good engines unless they are needed in the abort. Those engines, not being used much, are likely to be less reliable on average than engines that get used a lot. All IMHO anyway.

OTOH as Boeing has pointed out, the propellant could be used for ISS reboost.  Boeing has been consistent and particular in stating "propellant", so presumably the main LAS thrusters are inappropriate.  There are quite a number of smaller LAS control thrusters on the SM that might be appropriate for the job?  Not sure if using the CM RCS thrusters is feasible.

Offline newpylong

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1499
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 343
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #150 on: 02/13/2014 06:33 pm »
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=20295&item=128975

A picture of some hardware on the NASA Commercial Crew Facebook page.

Online robertross

  • Canadian Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17842
  • Westphal, Nova Scotia
  • Liked: 505
  • Likes Given: 5202
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #151 on: 02/13/2014 08:01 pm »
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=20295&item=128975

A picture of some hardware on the NASA Commercial Crew Facebook page.

full release:

Boeing Commercial Crew Program Passes NASA Hardware, Software Reviews


HOUSTON, Feb. 13, 2014 -- Boeing's [NYSE: BA] Commercial Crew Program (CCP) recently completed a hardware design review and software safety test, bringing it closer to launching the Crew Space Transportation (CST)-100 spacecraft that will return Americans to space.

Boeing completed a Critical Design Review for the the system's Launch Vehicle Adapter (LVA), which connects CST-100 to the United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket. The CDR, which included wind tunnel tests verifying flight stability, confirmed that the LVA design is suitable for production.

Separately, the Atlas V rocket's emergency detection system, which communicates with the capsule and initiates emergency procedures, if needed, passed its evaluation.

"Safety is a key element of the CST-100, from the drawing board to design implementation and beyond," said John Mulholland, vice president and program manager, Boeing Commercial Programs. "These tests help to validate that the launch vehicle adapter and emergency detection system are fully functioning and able to ensure a safe launch for our future passengers."

These two milestones are part of NASA's Commercial Crew Integrated Capability (CCiCap) agreement with Boeing. Next in line for the program is a software review this spring and the more comprehensive Integrated CDR this summer. Boeing is on track to meet all 20 of its CCiCap milestones in 2014.

Visit www.beyondearth.com for more information about the future of human space exploration.

A unit of The Boeing Company, Boeing Defense, Space & Security is one of the world's largest defense, space and security businesses specializing in innovative and capabilities-driven customer solutions, and the world's largest and most versatile manufacturer of military aircraft. Headquartered in St. Louis, Boeing Defense, Space & Security is a $33 billion business with 58,000 employees worldwide. Follow us on Twitter: @BoeingDefense.
Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Online robertross

  • Canadian Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17842
  • Westphal, Nova Scotia
  • Liked: 505
  • Likes Given: 5202
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #152 on: 02/13/2014 08:02 pm »
I found this statement a bit bold & absolute (highlight mine):

"Boeing's [NYSE: BA] Commercial Crew Program (CCP) recently completed a hardware design review and software safety test, bringing it closer to launching the Crew Space Transportation (CST)-100 spacecraft that will return Americans to space."

Remembering those who made the ultimate sacrifice for our rights & freedoms, and for those injured, visible or otherwise, in that fight.

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28853
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 9044
  • Likes Given: 5798
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #153 on: 02/13/2014 08:44 pm »
Always better to be assertive. :)
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline arachnitect

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1445
  • Liked: 394
  • Likes Given: 465
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #154 on: 02/13/2014 10:06 pm »
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=20295&item=128975

A picture of some hardware on the NASA Commercial Crew Facebook page.

Here's the pic:

I can't seem to find a caption or hi res version, but maybe it's hiding somewhere I can't find it.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32636
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 11494
  • Likes Given: 340
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #155 on: 02/13/2014 10:11 pm »
That is the Centaur Forward Adapter with avionics.

Offline manboy

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2082
  • Texas, USA, Earth
  • Liked: 127
  • Likes Given: 539
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #156 on: 02/14/2014 04:26 am »
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=20295&item=128975

A picture of some hardware on the NASA Commercial Crew Facebook page.

Here's the pic:

I can't seem to find a caption or hi res version, but maybe it's hiding somewhere I can't find it.
Taken from here.

http://workplaceelements.com/united-launch-alliance-project-profile/
"Cheese has been sent into space before. But the same cheese has never been sent into space twice." - StephenB

Offline Lurker Steve

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1420
  • Liked: 35
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #157 on: 02/14/2014 06:16 am »
I found this statement a bit bold & absolute (highlight mine):

"Boeing's [NYSE: BA] Commercial Crew Program (CCP) recently completed a hardware design review and software safety test, bringing it closer to launching the Crew Space Transportation (CST)-100 spacecraft that will return Americans to space."
Why not?  They're in the lead.

 - Ed Kyle

I suppose if they really complete the integrated CDR in a April, and the only remaining milestone for them is a spacecraft safety review, then they just might be in the lead. They are closer to completing all of their milestones than any other vendor.

Offline woods170

  • IRAS fan
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9045
  • IRAS fan
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 6455
  • Likes Given: 2210
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #158 on: 02/14/2014 08:54 am »
I found this statement a bit bold & absolute (highlight mine):

"Boeing's [NYSE: BA] Commercial Crew Program (CCP) recently completed a hardware design review and software safety test, bringing it closer to launching the Crew Space Transportation (CST)-100 spacecraft that will return Americans to space."
Why not?  They're in the lead.

 - Ed Kyle
I found this statement a bit bold & absolute (highlight mine):

"Boeing's [NYSE: BA] Commercial Crew Program (CCP) recently completed a hardware design review and software safety test, bringing it closer to launching the Crew Space Transportation (CST)-100 spacecraft that will return Americans to space."
Why not?  They're in the lead.

 - Ed Kyle
Ed is correct, regardless of what all the SpaceX fanbois may think.
IMO: If and when down-select of CRS providers occurs to 1.5 competitors the 1.0 award will go to Boeing, with SpaceX getting the 0.5 award.

Offline Confusador

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 201
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 188
Re: Boeing's CST-100 capsule updates & discussion THREAD 2
« Reply #159 on: 02/14/2014 09:02 am »
I found this statement a bit bold & absolute (highlight mine):

"Boeing's [NYSE: BA] Commercial Crew Program (CCP) recently completed a hardware design review and software safety test, bringing it closer to launching the Crew Space Transportation (CST)-100 spacecraft that will return Americans to space."
Why not?  They're in the lead.

 - Ed Kyle

I assume the relative positions haven't changed since the last selection statement, where Boeing was further along in design but SpaceX was willing to invest more.  How those facts will be weighted in the CCtCap I couldn't say, especially because the program is starting to get more money, but regardless I think it's safe to assume that both vehicles will put Americans in space - just not necessarily govt employees.

Tags: