Author Topic: KH-11 KENNEN  (Read 114233 times)

Offline Star One

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Re: KH-11 KENNEN
« Reply #380 on: 03/06/2019 11:38 am »

Offline hoku

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Re: KH-11 KENNEN
« Reply #381 on: 03/06/2019 07:44 pm »
The Hexagon (KH-9) Mapping Camera Program and Evolution history lists the KH-11 System Technical Manual as a reference (see PDF). Thus it might be the right time for a FOIA request - after all more than 40 years have passed since a copy of this document has been sold to the Soviets back in 1978 ...
« Last Edit: 03/06/2019 08:05 pm by hoku »

Offline Star One

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Re: KH-11 KENNEN
« Reply #382 on: 03/06/2019 08:53 pm »
Can I ask a question how is it an on orbit image video of USA 186 can be hosted on You Tube without the NRO asking for it to be taken down?

Not going to post the link here.

Online edkyle99

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Re: KH-11 KENNEN
« Reply #383 on: 03/06/2019 09:20 pm »
Can I ask a question how is it an on orbit image video of USA 186 can be hosted on You Tube without the NRO asking for it to be taken down?

Not going to post the link here.
I hope they wouldn't ask.  If so, then I would be seriously bummed if YouTube complied.  It is something that anyone with a telescope and some initiative can see.  If an amateur can document it at this resolution, imagine what a State entity with substantial resources can see.  The secret isn't the box, it is what is inside the box, how the box is used, etc.
 - Ed Kyle

Offline Star One

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KH-11 KENNEN
« Reply #384 on: 03/06/2019 09:30 pm »
Can I ask a question how is it an on orbit image video of USA 186 can be hosted on You Tube without the NRO asking for it to be taken down?

Not going to post the link here.
I hope they wouldn't ask.  If so, then I would be seriously bummed if YouTube complied.  It is something that anyone with a telescope and some initiative can see.  If an amateur can document it at this resolution, imagine what a State entity with substantial resources can see.  The secret isn't the box, it is what is inside the box, how the box is used, etc.
 - Ed Kyle

Thanks Ed for the good explanation.

TBH I know from stuff I’ve read that high end amateur astronomy equipment these days has an extremely high performance but I didn’t think that would apply equally to fast moving targets like satellites, being as obviously it’s not something astronomy magazines generally cover.
« Last Edit: 03/06/2019 09:35 pm by Star One »

Online jg

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Re: KH-11 KENNEN
« Reply #385 on: 03/06/2019 10:01 pm »
Can I ask a question how is it an on orbit image video of USA 186 can be hosted on You Tube without the NRO asking for it to be taken down?

Not going to post the link here.
I hope they wouldn't ask.  If so, then I would be seriously bummed if YouTube complied.  It is something that anyone with a telescope and some initiative can see.  If an amateur can document it at this resolution, imagine what a State entity with substantial resources can see.  The secret isn't the box, it is what is inside the box, how the box is used, etc.
 - Ed Kyle

Thanks Ed for the good explanation.

TBH I know from stuff I’ve read that high end amateur astronomy equipment these days has an extremely high performance but I didn’t think that would apply equally to fast moving targets like satellites, being as obviously it’s not something astronomy magazines generally cover.
High end amateur astronomy equipment is easily able to track satellites, given an orbit.  Complete with point and click UI....

It is an amazing progress in technology from when I worked on one of the first computer controlled telescopes in the early-mid 1970's.

Offline gosnold

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Re: KH-11 KENNEN
« Reply #386 on: 03/07/2019 06:53 pm »

Thanks Ed for the good explanation.

TBH I know from stuff Iíve read that high end amateur astronomy equipment these days has an extremely high performance but I didnít think that would apply equally to fast moving targets like satellites, being as obviously itís not something astronomy magazines generally cover.

You don't even need to track. You can point at the location the satellite is going to pass and take a high framerate video.

Offline Star One

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Re: KH-11 KENNEN
« Reply #387 on: 03/07/2019 07:08 pm »

Thanks Ed for the good explanation.

TBH I know from stuff I’ve read that high end amateur astronomy equipment these days has an extremely high performance but I didn’t think that would apply equally to fast moving targets like satellites, being as obviously it’s not something astronomy magazines generally cover.

You don't even need to track. You can point at the location the satellite is going to pass and take a high framerate video.

Are we talking about just a point of light though?

Offline Blackstar

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Re: KH-11 KENNEN
« Reply #388 on: 03/07/2019 08:10 pm »
Thus it might be the right time for a FOIA request - after all more than 40 years have passed since a copy of this document has been sold to the Soviets back in 1978 ...

I doubt that would be successful. I have heard that there is discussion of declassifying the early KH-11 program. But I've heard that for a few years now. And it's always easier for somebody to say no than to say yes.

I should add that I have written a lengthy (~20,000 words?) article about the decision to build the KH-11 KENNEN. I'll probably start publishing that in parts on TSR in the next few months and then get the whole thing into print. It is mostly about the decision-making, not about the technology or the actual spacecraft that flew in late 1976.
« Last Edit: 03/07/2019 08:12 pm by Blackstar »

Offline Star One

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Re: KH-11 KENNEN
« Reply #389 on: 03/07/2019 08:14 pm »
Thus it might be the right time for a FOIA request - after all more than 40 years have passed since a copy of this document has been sold to the Soviets back in 1978 ...

I doubt that would be successful. I have heard that there is discussion of declassifying the early KH-11 program. But I've heard that for a few years now. And it's always easier for somebody to say no than to say yes.

I should add that I have written a lengthy (~20,000 words?) article about the decision to build the KH-11 KENNEN. I'll probably start publishing that in parts on TSR in the next few months and then get the whole thing into print. It is mostly about the decision-making, not about the technology or the actual spacecraft that flew in late 1976.

How much does the present government administration in the US at any particular time impact the decision making process on declassifying projects?

Online Hobbes-22

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Re: KH-11 KENNEN
« Reply #390 on: 03/08/2019 07:11 am »


Thanks Ed for the good explanation.

TBH I know from stuff Iíve read that high end amateur astronomy equipment these days has an extremely high performance but I didnít think that would apply equally to fast moving targets like satellites, being as obviously itís not something astronomy magazines generally cover.

Astronomy equipment is not optimized for the task, so tracking mounts are usually too slow. Manual tracking is used to photograph satellites. Quality can be good enough to see an astronaut on a spacewalk. I've seen several of these efforts on astronomy websites.

« Last Edit: 03/08/2019 07:11 am by Hobbes-22 »

Online jg

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Re: KH-11 KENNEN
« Reply #391 on: 03/17/2019 07:48 pm »


Thanks Ed for the good explanation.

TBH I know from stuff I’ve read that high end amateur astronomy equipment these days has an extremely high performance but I didn’t think that would apply equally to fast moving targets like satellites, being as obviously it’s not something astronomy magazines generally cover.

Astronomy equipment is not optimized for the task, so tracking mounts are usually too slow. Manual tracking is used to photograph satellites. Quality can be good enough to see an astronaut on a spacewalk. I've seen several of these efforts on astronomy websites.
Depends on the equipment.  The Paramount MX+ we have can track even very fast moving objects.

Offline Star One

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Re: KH-11 KENNEN
« Reply #392 on: 03/23/2019 07:23 pm »
This article hasn’t been posted previously.

USA 290 (NROL-71)

Quote
So, there is something new under the sun, in more than one way. While the general consensus still is that USA 290 is an electro-optical bird in the ADVANCED CRYSTAL lineage, the radical break with previous orbital structures for this series of satellites is highly interesting. It will be interesting to follow this new object, and see how things develop with future launches.

Online SWGlassPit

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Re: KH-11 KENNEN
« Reply #393 on: 03/25/2019 09:33 pm »
This article hasnít been posted previously.

USA 290 (NROL-71)

Quote
So, there is something new under the sun, in more than one way. While the general consensus still is that USA 290 is an electro-optical bird in the ADVANCED CRYSTAL lineage, the radical break with previous orbital structures for this series of satellites is highly interesting. It will be interesting to follow this new object, and see how things develop with future launches.

The non-sun-sync nature of the orbit seems to suggest that something other than visible spectrum may be at play here.  I know there's quite a bit of atmospheric attenuation, but infrared maybe?

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