Author Topic: Russian Segment  (Read 161889 times)

Offline Norm Hartnett

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #260 on: 08/18/2008 05:33 pm »
Just to be clear I started this line of inquiry in response to this line in the Novosti Kosmonavtiki article.

Quote from: Novosti Kosmonavtiki
Such projected configuration of the ISS RS allows, if required,  to start independent flight of the RS as a separate Russian orbital station.

There are other threads that discuss the current political situation and it’s ramifications for the ISS and still other threads that discuss NASA’s current intentions and capabilities with regard to the ISS. I am more interested in the current state of development of the Russian Segment and the possibilities of its independent operation as is appropriate for this thread.

As to Zarya, possession is nine-tenths of the law. If MMC-M has operational control of Zarya and if Russia determines that they are capable of maintaining an operational space station with the addition of Zarya I am pretty sure they would retain it. This all assumes that Russia has the political will to maintain a space station, of course, and further assumes that NASA has abandoned the station for whatever reason.

Thanks for the note that the HTV has de-orbit capability Danderman.
« Last Edit: 08/18/2008 06:09 pm by Norm Hartnett »
“You can’t take a traditional approach and expect anything but the traditional results, which has been broken budgets and not fielding any flight hardware.” Mike Gold - Apollo, STS, CxP; those that don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it: SLS.

Offline eeergo

Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #261 on: 08/18/2008 10:25 pm »

Thanks for the note that the HTV has de-orbit capability Danderman.

Is it now? I thought a bit about this last night, and actually I don't see it being as easy as it sounds.

On the one hand, HTV wouldn't have the chance to dock in the +/- X axis of the station. In its nominal configuration, it would be docked to Harmony nadir, and one could concievably think it could get attached to Harmony zenith, or any of Node 3 CBMs. But that gives an awkward position for reboosts, specially for one so long as a deorbit burn for the giant US segment. Plus, would the CMGs be able to account for the attitude control needed without RS thrusters?

HTV cannot transfer fuel, so there's the question of propellant availability, although I would think the unpressurized cargo container could easily be modified for bigger tanks if that was needed.

Just some things that came over the top of my head, perhaps they are easily solvable?
-DaviD-

Offline Danderman

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #262 on: 08/18/2008 10:41 pm »
Move the PMA currently attached to Node 2 forward CBM to another port. Berth HTV to the now unoccupied Node 2 forward CBM. Make sure that HTV has plenty of prop before launch.

Turn ISS 180 degrees, using HTV ACS.

Fire HTV engines.

Goodbye, ISS.


Offline eeergo

Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #263 on: 08/18/2008 11:07 pm »
Of course, that's an option, but that would involve disconnecting all the umbilicals with the Node (EVAs) and lots of robotics, not a straightforward, last-minute solution.

My point is if this situation were to happen, it would require quite a lot of previous cooperation between Russia and the US/IPs, and responsibilities would have to be taken on both sides... IMHO, I don't think this is a realistic scenario.

But it's fun to talk about :) Also, if HTV wasn't able to carry the propellants, perhaps some hypothetical COTS vehicule could.
-DaviD-

Offline DmitryP

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #264 on: 08/19/2008 07:11 am »
Just to be clear I started this line of inquiry in response to this line in the Novosti Kosmonavtiki article.

As to Zarya, possession is nine-tenths of the law.

Norm, I have posted your questions at the NK forum but I doubt there would be any answer. It is very difficult to get information about the current status of the RS modules... Depending on whether suppliers are asking for money or reporting about their achievements it could be from "huge efforts are still required" to "will be completed next year"....

Dmitry

One questions about Zarya. Being legally a US asset, can it be sold to Russia as a barter deal for Souzs (what is a correct spelling of Soyuz in plural ? )? Will this require same Congress waiver as a regular monetary deal? 
« Last Edit: 08/19/2008 07:12 am by DmitryP »

Offline Norm Hartnett

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #265 on: 08/19/2008 06:30 pm »
Thanks Dmitry, looking forward to any responses that may show up.

As to swapping the Zarya for Soyuz rides (one solution to the plural of Soyuz ;D), that is a question for congressional lawyers.
“You can’t take a traditional approach and expect anything but the traditional results, which has been broken budgets and not fielding any flight hardware.” Mike Gold - Apollo, STS, CxP; those that don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it: SLS.

Offline eeergo

Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #266 on: 09/07/2008 10:27 pm »
Interesting presentation by Energia's Nikolai Bryukhanov with many future concepts outlined, including a detailed outline of the new RS modules, posted by pm1823 in this thread: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=14256.msg313156#msg313156

http://www.senkyo.co.jp/ists2008/pdf/2008-o-3-06v.pdf
-DaviD-

Offline pippin

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #267 on: 09/08/2008 12:29 am »
Looks a bit like I posted my original question in the wrong thread so I continue here - just to cause some more confusion :)
Is all of the near term stuff really in the making?
I'm talking about the "under development" stuff:
Cargo Return Vehicle
Node Module
Multi-Purpose Laboratory Module
Mini Research Module 1 (to be launched by Shuttle, I assume this is on ULF4?)
Mini Research Module 2 (2009, shouldn't that one be manifested already? Can't find it on the "Plan of Russian Launches" thread.

See this reply by Danderman: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=2881.msg307376#msg307376

Both MRMs are quite quoted in Russian media, and their launches are pretty soon (MRM-1 should be finished more or less at the same time as -2, given it has to be shipped to KSC, checked... before the mission) MLM is the main Russian module, to be launched with the European Robotic Arm, and is quoted to be around 70-75% development, so I would assume its launch is certain, perhaps with a longer delay than advertised. The node would be pretty cheap to launch (Soyuz, small volume) so that wouldn't be much of a stretch. I pretty much agree with pm1823's view on this, although I'm under the impression he has more in-depth info than I do. :)

You say the node would be cheap to launch:
Do all Russian modules have "free-flyer" capabilities, that is: can they rendezvous with ISS on their own?

Offline nacnud

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #268 on: 09/08/2008 12:42 am »
No, only DOS (Zvezda) or TKS (Zarya) based modules have 'free-flyer' capabilities. Other modules, so long as they are light can use a donor Progress for docking or have to be brought up on the Shuttle. I don't know how the science power modules are to be delivered to station.
« Last Edit: 09/08/2008 12:43 am by nacnud »

Online Ronsmytheiii

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #269 on: 09/08/2008 01:04 am »
No, only DOS (Zvezda) or TKS (Zarya) based modules have 'free-flyer' capabilities. Other modules, so long as they are light can use a donor Progress for docking or have to be brought up on the Shuttle. I don't know how the science power modules are to be delivered to station.

By the way, what ever happened to the 37KE line?  they were supposed to start cranking them out by the hand full, however after Kvant-1 nothing was heard of them.

Offline pm1823

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #270 on: 09/08/2008 08:05 am »
37КE was experimental module... too heavy, with bad useful payload mass/volume coef. Next 77KS had better design, but anyway, to make new modules on those old designs is irrational.

Offline pm1823

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #271 on: 09/08/2008 08:45 am »
I don't know how the science power modules are to be delivered to station.

Yeah, good question. Early it was expected to do with Parom help.

Offline anik

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #272 on: 09/08/2008 05:11 pm »
Mini Research Module 1 (to be launched by Shuttle, I assume this is on ULF4?)

Yes, MRM1 will be launched aboard Discovery (STS-132/ULF4) on April 8, 2010.
 
Mini Research Module 2 (2009, shouldn't that one be manifested already? Can't find it on the "Plan of Russian Launches" thread)

MRM2 will be launched together with Progress M-SO2 cargo ship-module by Soyuz-FG rocket on August 15, 2009.

Offline marsavian

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #273 on: 01/06/2009 01:08 am »
Russian Mini Research Module (MRM1) schematic

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=27297

Offline marsavian

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Offline Stephan

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Best regards, Stephan

Offline Danderman

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Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #276 on: 01/14/2009 02:37 am »
By the way, what ever happened to the 37KE line?  they were supposed to start cranking them out by the hand full, however after Kvant-1 nothing was heard of them.

Another flew in orbit in 1988.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline bobthemonkey

Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #277 on: 01/14/2009 11:40 am »
By the way, what ever happened to the 37KE line?  they were supposed to start cranking them out by the hand full, however after Kvant-1 nothing was heard of them.

Another flew in orbit in 1988.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Really? I didn't think that flight (assuming we are talking of the same flight) had a payload.

Offline eeergo

Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #278 on: 02/09/2009 01:57 pm »
More delays for MLM (now November 2012) :/

From today's ISS Status Report:

12/XX/11-- Proton 3R/MLM w/ERA.
-DaviD-

Offline bobthemonkey

Re: Russian Segment
« Reply #279 on: 02/09/2009 02:01 pm »
??? 12/XX/11 is still 2011, or is the delay from another source?

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