Author Topic: Indian Human Spaceflight Program  (Read 204294 times)

Offline K210

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #500 on: 03/05/2019 06:09 am »
I think isro should go for suborbital manned mission before a orbital one

Why? Russia and China went orbital on their first go.

Because the 2022 deadline for a orbital manned mission is highly unrealistic in my opinion. Taking into account the third launch pad with facilities for human spaceflight will only come online by 2023 and the funding shortfall (approx $2 billion allocated vs 2.8 billion requested) i dont think this program in its entirety will occur any earlier than 2023-2024.

Besides a successful suborbital manned mission will give isro confidence and validate a lot of the tech needed for a orbital mission later on. They could do something similar to the CARE mission in december 2014 but this time with humans onboard.

Offline seshagirib

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #501 on: 03/06/2019 08:00 am »
IIRC, even USA went for sub orbital launches, prior to orbital launches,  mainly because they lacked a powerful enough booster at that time.

Offline sanman

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #502 on: 03/07/2019 02:46 pm »
IIRC, even USA went for sub orbital launches, prior to orbital launches,  mainly because they lacked a powerful enough booster at that time.

Alan Shepard and then John Glenn

Online Olaf

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Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #504 on: 03/09/2019 03:56 pm »
https://www.newsnation.in/science-news/gaganyaan-project-us-interested-in-forming-working-group-with-india-former-nasa-chief-maj-gen-charles-frank-bolden-jr-isro-article-216429.html
Gaganyaan project: US interested in forming working group with India
I think isro should go for suborbital manned mission before a orbital one

Why? Russia and China went orbital on their first go.

Because the 2022 deadline for a orbital manned mission is highly unrealistic in my opinion. Taking into account the third launch pad with facilities for human spaceflight will only come online by 2023 and the funding shortfall (approx $2 billion allocated vs 2.8 billion requested) i dont think this program in its entirety will occur any earlier than 2023-2024.

Besides a successful suborbital manned mission will give isro confidence and validate a lot of the tech needed for a orbital mission later on. They could do something similar to the CARE mission in december 2014 but this time with humans onboard.
An unmanned orbital mission will achieve lot more than manned suborbital mission.
There is no race, best take the time and do it right first time.

Offline sanman

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #505 on: 04/08/2019 06:56 pm »
NASA suspends HSF cooperation with ISRO, then quickly resumes cooperation:

https://spacenews.com/nasa-resumes-cooperation-with-isro-after-asat-test/



Quote
In a March 29 letter to K. Sivan, chairman of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), Al Condes, NASA associate administrator for international and interagency relations, said that NASA was suspending its participation in a working group between the two agencies related to human spaceflight issues, two days after India announced it had intercepted one of its satellites with a ground-launched missile.

“It is NASA’s view that human spaceflight is simply incompatible with the purposeful creation of orbital debris generated by anti-satellite testing,” Condes wrote in the letter, provided to SpaceNews by NASA.

“Consequently, the Administrator has asked me to inform you that NASA is immediately suspending activities under the NASA-ISRO Human Space Flight Working Group until it receives assurances from ISRO that India will refrain from future anti-satellite tests that could have an impact on human space flight activities in low Earth orbit,” he wrote. Other areas of cooperation between the two agencies, he added, were unaffected by this decision.

Condes noted in the letter that NASA estimated that the risk to the International Space Station from small debris would increase by 44 percent “over background” over the next 10 days as a result of the test. That was the same increase cited by Bridenstine in an April 1 town hall session where he criticized the test.

“That is a terrible, terrible thing, to create an event that sends debris into an apogee that goes above the International Space Station,” he said at the town hall meeting, in the sharpest criticism of the ASAT test by any U.S. government official. “It’s unacceptable, and NASA needs to be very clear about what its impact to us is.”

However, in a follow-up letter to Sivan dated April 4, Bridenstine said that that cooperation involving that working group would resume. “As part of our partnership with you, we will continue to work on issues using the NASA-ISRO Human Space Flight Working Group,” he wrote, along with several other working groups involving scientific cooperation not mentioned in the earlier letter. “Based on guidance received from the White House, I look forward to continuing these groups in the future.”

(I guess NASA's Bridenstine was off-trajectory and needed a guidance correction)
« Last Edit: 04/08/2019 07:00 pm by sanman »

Offline A.K.

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #506 on: 04/11/2019 03:59 am »
How many of folks here think that we will be able launch manned orbital mission before 15th August 2022.

Offline K210

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #507 on: 04/11/2019 05:18 am »
How many of folks here think that we will be able launch manned orbital mission before 15th August 2022.

Impossible!

Infrastructure will not be ready till 2023 at the earliest. August 2022 date was unrealistic to start with.
« Last Edit: 04/11/2019 05:19 am by K210 »

Offline abhishek

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #508 on: 04/11/2019 05:40 pm »
How many of folks here think that we will be able launch manned orbital mission before 15th August 2022.

Impossible!

Infrastructure will not be ready till 2023 at the earliest. August 2022 date was unrealistic to start with.

If delayed beyond 2022,the entire program will loose it's political relevance which was the main driving force behind it.

I just cannot understand why in the world is ISRO focusing on reinventing the wheel rather than on bettering it's launch capabilities or focusing on some exiting missions like missions to Jovian planets or asteroids.

10, 9, ignition sequence start 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, all engines running Lift off, we have a lift off, lift off

Offline A.K.

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #509 on: 04/11/2019 06:48 pm »
I just cannot understand why in the world is ISRO focusing on reinventing the wheel rather than on bettering it's launch capabilities or focusing on some exiting missions like missions to Jovian planets or asteroids.
Those projects too are in pipeline.

The "reinventing" term is irrelevant here as no one is giving you their invention. Human Spaceflight capabilities are a means of projection of technological prowess as well as paving way for various sectors of research.

Offline notsorandom

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #510 on: 04/15/2019 06:46 pm »
I think isro should go for suborbital manned mission before a orbital one

Why? Russia and China went orbital on their first go.

Because the 2022 deadline for a orbital manned mission is highly unrealistic in my opinion. Taking into account the third launch pad with facilities for human spaceflight will only come online by 2023 and the funding shortfall (approx $2 billion allocated vs 2.8 billion requested) i dont think this program in its entirety will occur any earlier than 2023-2024.

Besides a successful suborbital manned mission will give isro confidence and validate a lot of the tech needed for a orbital mission later on. They could do something similar to the CARE mission in december 2014 but this time with humans onboard.
From a safety perspective an orbital mission would be better. If something goes wrong once the spacecraft is in space then there is plenty more time to work the problem. An example would be the CRS-2 Dragon. It's maneuvering system didn't power up correctly once it separated from the Falcon rocket. If that had been a suborbital mission it would be coming right back down before mission control could fix it.

Offline K210

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #511 on: 04/15/2019 11:48 pm »
How many of folks here think that we will be able launch manned orbital mission before 15th August 2022.

Impossible!

Infrastructure will not be ready till 2023 at the earliest. August 2022 date was unrealistic to start with.

If delayed beyond 2022,the entire program will loose it's political relevance which was the main driving force behind it.

I just cannot understand why in the world is ISRO focusing on reinventing the wheel rather than on bettering it's launch capabilities or focusing on some exiting missions like missions to Jovian planets or asteroids.

Quote
If delayed beyond 2022,the entire program will loose it's political relevance which was the main driving force behind it.

Yes that is kind of the point. I worry that political pressure is forcing isro to cut corners just to hit the 2022 deadline.

Offline JH

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #512 on: 04/16/2019 03:31 am »
If delayed beyond 2022,the entire program will loose it's political relevance which was the main driving force behind it.

If Chandrayaan-2 is any indication, I imagine that news of delays will break very late, after the project has too much momentum to be cancelled.

Offline HarmonicGF2

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #513 on: 04/18/2019 04:02 pm »
How many of folks here think that we will be able launch manned orbital mission before 15th August 2022.

Impossible!

Infrastructure will not be ready till 2023 at the earliest. August 2022 date was unrealistic to start with.

If delayed beyond 2022,the entire program will loose it's political relevance which was the main driving force behind it.

I just cannot understand why in the world is ISRO focusing on reinventing the wheel rather than on bettering it's launch capabilities or focusing on some exiting missions like missions to Jovian planets or asteroids.
Anything symbolic about the 2022 date?

Offline A.K.

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #514 on: 04/19/2019 07:57 am »
75 years of independence of India. May be if they do, they will set next target to land on Moon by 2047. Or may be something bigger if they do it earlier than 2047.

Offline abhishek

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #515 on: 04/20/2019 12:39 pm »
I just cannot understand why in the world is ISRO focusing on reinventing the wheel rather than on bettering it's launch capabilities or focusing on some exiting missions like missions to Jovian planets or asteroids.
Those projects too are in pipeline.

The "reinventing" term is irrelevant here as no one is giving you their invention. Human Spaceflight capabilities are a means of projection of technological prowess as well as paving way for various sectors of research.


I think leading space powers are  ready to share critical technologies related to human spaceflight. Infact  CNES,NASA,ROSCOMOS are actively helping us in our manned program.

These days human spaceflight to low earth orbit is no longer a tool of power projection as it used to be during the cold war era primarily because it has become so frequent and so many private entities are entering this sector.

10, 9, ignition sequence start 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, all engines running Lift off, we have a lift off, lift off

Offline abhishek

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #516 on: 04/20/2019 02:39 pm »
If delayed beyond 2022,the entire program will loose it's political relevance which was the main driving force behind it.

If Chandrayaan-2 is any indication, I imagine that news of delays will break very late, after the project has too much momentum to be cancelled.


India has a history of cancelling projects after investing huge sums and decades of R&D.

You have to keep in mind that this project is more political than scientific in nature ,if there is a cost escalation ,so much so that it starts affecting other programs,then there is a huge chance of the project getting scrapped.
10, 9, ignition sequence start 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, all engines running Lift off, we have a lift off, lift off

Offline K210

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #517 on: 04/21/2019 04:58 am »
Quote
These days human spaceflight to low earth orbit is no longer a tool of power projection as it used to be during the cold war era primarily because it has become so frequent and so many private entities are entering this sector.

Thats simply not true. Till date there are only 3 countries that have successfully developed man LEO capablity: Russia, US and China. I think manned LEO missions will remain a prestige symbol for at least a few more decades....

No fully private entity i know of is even close to putting humans in LEO. I'm not counting spaceX here because of the large amounts of money and assistance they have been receiving from NASA.

Offline A.K.

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Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
« Reply #518 on: 04/22/2019 05:59 am »
I think leading space powers are  ready to share critical technologies related to human spaceflight. Infact  CNES,NASA,ROSCOMOS are actively helping us in our manned program.
Not really, they aren't "actively" helping us in anyway. It's us who are just negotiating with them for some consultancy as they have more experience.

They neither have ever nor will ever share critical technologies and IPRs with us.
These days human spaceflight to low earth orbit is no longer a tool of power projection as it used to be during the cold war era primarily because it has become so frequent and so many private entities are entering this sector.
So far there are three countries only with active human spaceflight program. Sending humans in space, staying there and doing experiments and bringing them back safely is no less than of a technological milestone even today. Not easy at all.

As far as private companies are concerned, none of them has done yet as well as they have technological assistance from US government. US even spends on R&D of private companies.
Indian private sector  has just started to emerge. Do you actually think that any Indian compnay will deliever spaceflight if Indian government shelves its own projects?
India has a history of cancelling projects after investing huge sums and decades of R&D.
India has rarely cancelled any project till date. Yeah, projects were delayed for sure being brutally underfunded as compared to West, Russia & China.
Not to forget, India is new to all these fields.
You have to keep in mind that this project is more political than scientific in nature.
This project has existed far before than PM's statement. It was just not on priority list earlier. The project was envisaged as early as in early 2000s, however the GSLV Mk3, which was supposed to get ready before end of previous decade just took first flight in mid of this decade.

There have been repeated statements from ISRO's officials pitching for human spaceflight.
Only unrealistic thing here is the timeline of 2022 that even for required parameters. We are too new for it. For remaining for weeks and carry out experiments in orbit.

For parameters and situations we want to achieve in first attempt, not like touching space for few hours in Iranian and DPRK's programs.
,if there is a cost escalation ,so much so that it starts affecting other programs,then there is a huge chance of the project getting scrapped.
Technologies are too matured to cause a cost overrun at least.

Vehicle is there and infrastructure is there. Only thing left is extensive testing which should delay mission well beyond 2022.

Cost overruns will come into play only when India goes for setting up space station like things.
« Last Edit: 04/22/2019 06:00 am by A.K. »

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