Author Topic: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)  (Read 45204 times)

Offline Bruce H

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RE: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #100 on: 04/14/2006 06:33 pm »
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rsp1202 - 31/3/2006  12:13 PM

I've never seen this image. Is it real or Photoshopped?

Looks real to me.

Offline rsp1202

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RE: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #101 on: 04/14/2006 07:45 pm »
Yeah, I finally tracked it down to an Apollo 15 panorama, but still haven't gotten the image number.

Offline hyper_snyper

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RE: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #102 on: 04/14/2006 08:29 pm »
The picture should be buried here somewhere ... http://www.apolloarchive.com/apollo_gallery.html

I think the numbers next to the pictures are image numbers.

Offline rsp1202

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RE: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #103 on: 04/14/2006 08:39 pm »
Thanks. I was there and couldn't find it, probably because I was constantly sidetracked by all the other great images available. I'll keep looking; it's a great perspective photo.

Offline modavis

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RE: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #104 on: 04/15/2006 06:59 pm »
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Do Shuttles Dream - 18/3/2006  7:33 PMMost designs seem to follow the Apollo pattern. Is this the case for all nations that have moon ambitions?

Engineering solutions tend to converge, given the same underlying technology (and a natural conservatism that goes with hardware operating far from home under extreme conditions).  Think of bird, bat and pterosaur wings...

Offline Jamie Young

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RE: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #105 on: 04/17/2006 08:55 pm »
Did they ever think about a moon base during the Apollo missions?

Offline Shuttle Man

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RE: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #106 on: 04/17/2006 08:57 pm »
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Jamie Young - 17/4/2006  3:55 PM

Did they ever think about a moon base during the Apollo missions?

Yes, but the program was ended for the Shuttle, remember. The ideas were there, but the cash wasn't.
Ex-Apollo, waiting for NASA to finish what we started.

Offline rsp1202

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RE: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #107 on: 04/17/2006 10:06 pm »
There was planning for a moon base even before Apollo. See:

http://www.astronautix.com/articles/propter1.htm

Offline James Lowe1

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RE: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #108 on: 04/20/2006 04:54 pm »
So many dreams lost through the problem of budgetry pressure.

Offline kraisee

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RE: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #109 on: 04/20/2006 07:25 pm »
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James Lowe1 - 20/4/2006  12:54 PM

So many dreams lost through the problem of budgetry pressure.

Not forgetting political agendas too.

Nixon is on record as wanting the very last US Astronaut to fly while he was in the White House.   He might have even succeeded with that goal if it weren't for Spiro Agnew, Thomas Paine and ultimately the Watergate Tapes.

Truly, we're lucky to have anything left at all.

Ross.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth -- the rest of us will go to the stars"
-Robert A. Heinlein

Offline Stowbridge

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RE: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #110 on: 07/25/2006 02:28 am »
Veteran space reporter.

Offline stargazer777

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RE: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #111 on: 07/25/2006 06:02 am »
Regarding Nixon's attempt to kill the manned space program: Thanks for nothing Tricky Dick.

Offline SimonShuttle

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Re: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #112 on: 07/30/2006 02:21 pm »
We've really not heard a thing about a moon base for a long time now. Who gets to work on this? Constellation?

Offline Jim

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Re: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #113 on: 07/30/2006 02:28 pm »
Constellation is charged with carring out the VSE.  But first you have to get to the moon.  Before that LEO.  Moon bases will have to wait a few years (3-8)  before they are past the powerpoint phase.  LSAM isn't even past the powerpoint phase as we speak

Offline Chris Bergin

RE: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #114 on: 07/30/2006 06:04 pm »
As Jim said, this is a loooooong way off. Although I know it's one of the really interesting elements, so I'll see what I can get hold of (even if its really preliminary).

Offline TyMoore

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RE: Moon/Mars Base (SHAB)
« Reply #115 on: 07/31/2006 12:17 am »
This is in regards to the molten carbonate waste disposal method mentioned earlier by several people:


I've heard about supercritical wet oxidation before, but I'm not clear as to what some of the risks could be. Obviously a suddel loss of pressure will result in flashing (loss of liquid due to vaporization,) also there is the question of oxidation rate which can be controlled by admitting metered amounts of pure oxygen. In an enclosed vessel pressurized by water heated to high temperature, a sparging circuit could be made of recirculating gasses which would of course be a mixture of CO2, N2, H2O vapour, etc. Adding a small amount of oxygen to this gas stream at the bottom of the vessel will support an exothermic reaction--this will of course heat the vessel.  The collected 'waste' stream of gasses could be directed to an expansion nozzle directed into a condensor where water and some water soluble gasses (like NH3 and some CO2) are removed.  CO2 could then be condensed from the remaining gas stream farther down the line, and the rest of the mostly inert gasses would be returned with the condensate water and makeup oxygen.

I can see how this could work.

The only advantages I suppose with the molten carbonate salt, is that it is potentially faster at combusting waste because of the catalytic effects of superoxide ions dissolved within the melt, but it is also conducted at much lower pressure than the wet oxidation method. In the paper it is suggested that the reaction vessel be electrically heated--a 'simple' solar furnace could supply all the heat necessary for waste incineration.

The only trouble is getting rid of the 'ash' which would be dissolved within the carbonate. My guess is that the ash will not be nearly as soluble in water as the carbonate, so simply dissolving this material in water and allowing insoluble material to settle will remove most waste products. Even contaminants such as Mercury should be almost entirely removed by precipitation by careful control of the pH in the resultant waste liquor, so I don't see mercury as being that big of a problem. Converting the dissolved hydroxides in the waste liquor back to carbonates ought to be a snap by first evaporating the water to retrieve the hydroxide solutes, and then treating the solutes with all of the CO2 collected during the previous processing run. Insoluble ash slurry ought to be easily removed by drying and then further processing (such as carbonate or chloride salt based electrolysis) to seperate out the metals from the oxides for reuse.

Sure, it takes a lot of energy, but the sun is free. And any decent moon base worth its salt is going to have to have atleast a small nuclear power plant for safety and additional power during the two week lunar 'night' every month.


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