Author Topic: Blacklight Power  (Read 125189 times)

Offline hop

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #80 on: 07/04/2009 01:34 am »
Hop, I said that it in some small sense already exists.  I did NOT say what you inserted into the quote in brackets.  If you want to quote someone, especially with the quote bar here at NSF, then quote them.  Don't stick your words in their mouth.
Not my intention, and I honestly don't believe that I did. If anyone else thinks I've been way out of line here, feel free to let me know (via PM if you like). Here's the complete context, with links to the original posts:
GI-Thruster: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=17647.msg429920#msg429920
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A 50 kW BLP reactor is the size of a basketball so the power systems for this could, in that case be very small and hard to see.

Jim: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=17647.msg429971#msg429971
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3.  when will that be available?

GI-Thruster: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=17647.msg429981#msg429981
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I think it is in a small sense already available.  There's one running months now at Rowan University.  There's a utility doing assembly on a commercial plant in NM or NV, I forget which.  I don't know if there's anything one would want to launch quite yet but I'm sure CIA is fully aware of how close they are to access
I don't believe that [as a viable spacecraft power source] substantially misrepresented the position expressed above. The implication is clear that you are suggesting a basket ball sized "50kw" BLP reactor is a near term, plausible spacecraft power supply, and that the Rowan experiment somehow supports this.

The last is obviously untrue. To call the difference between what the Rowan test showed and a viable power supply a "fueling issue" is strange... the only thing that has been demonstrated is a "fuel" with lower energy density than existing, off the shelf technology.

AnalogMan:
Thanks for that. Do you have a source handy ?

Online AnalogMan

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #81 on: 07/04/2009 01:40 am »
AnalogMan:
Thanks for that. Do you have a source handy ?
Rowan University are quite open and above board with the grants that they receive for sponsored research.  You can find monthly and annual summary reports on their website here:
http://www.rowan.edu/open/provost/grants/quarterly_reports/quarterly_reports.cfm

Grants received from Blacklight Power, Inc. listed in these reports are as follows:

Date     Principal investigator(s)    Grant   

Jul 06   Jansson                     $ 75,000
Dec 07   Jansson                     $ 35,000
Jul 08   Mugweru                     $ 20,807
Sep 08   Mugweru & Ramanujachary     $ 50,028
Nov 08   Jansson                     $116,359
Nov 08   Mugweru & Ramanujachary     $ 54,104

Total                                $351,298
« Last Edit: 07/04/2009 02:44 am by AnalogMan »


Offline bad_astra

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #83 on: 08/21/2009 05:45 pm »
Rowan University conducted the experiment with their own equipment this time.
"Contact Light" -Buzz Aldrin

Offline Zachstar

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #84 on: 08/29/2009 12:11 am »
So where is it? Where is the stuff ready to use?

Offline GI-Thruster

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #85 on: 08/29/2009 05:28 am »
So where is it? Where is the stuff ready to use?

My quick scan of the most recent materials suggested that there is no stuff yet ready to use.  There was a comment in one of the most recent papers that the breakthrough with the feeding of the reactors would step them up in their schedule mightily which suggests that they are not at the point of commercial application.

I don't care.  If there is anything to these claims, the aerospace community should be looking at them.  I don't care about Mills' oddball physics.  I don't care about the bad press.  All I see is mounting evidence that they are onto something and it is an American tragedy that DOE, DOD, DOT, NASA and the American Academies of Science have not been tasked to look into this.  A careful and revealing study would cost a million or two and we'd have answers.  Likewise, it is near criminal negligence that we are not pressing for answers concerning the EEStor super-cap issue.  These are technologies that all evidence says are game changers and especially when our nation is under the economic gun, it only makes good sense to investigate technologies that could offer life changing solutions to our energy needs.

Offline alexterrell

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #86 on: 08/30/2009 09:52 pm »
Blacklight claim to take hydrogen down to a lower energy state, and that this energy state is stable. Taking hydrogen down to the lower energy state releases a lot of heat.

This would be unique, as it would be a phyiscal process that nature hasn't achieved. Fission, Fusion, etc, nature does them.

I can see how the lower state would be stable, as moving to the higher state would absorb energy, and send the temperature to below absolute zero, so it would be impossible.

So if this lower energy status were possible, would it not dominate the Universe?


Offline GI-Thruster

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #87 on: 08/31/2009 03:16 am »
Alex, I want to remind again that I did not start this thread.  I blundered onto the BLP subject in another thread and it generated so many posts that Chris snipped the posts and started this new thread.

I'm not a BLP cheerleader.  I believe in the scientific process and I believe that BLP does show the signs of revolutionary science as is outlined in Thomas S. Kuhn's landmark work "The Structures of Scientific Revolutions" however, I also realize that Mills' claims are somewhat startling and his critics past counting.  I realize that this bodes of either bad science or revolutionary science and honestly, the proof is in the empirical evidence generated.

So to answer your question, I can't answer your question without re-igniting the firestorm of controversy that always surrounds discussion of BLP.  I suggest instead if you have an interest, spend the time to better understand BLP's claims by reading some of the volumous detail available on the BLP website or by simply reading back through this thread.

For my part, I'm content to call for good science.  I think BLP has indeed earned the ear of the scientific community (even though they haven't recieved a fair hearing--they have earned one) and even if Mills' physics is flawed, it is worth looking at the evidence.  It's also always worth reconsidering the current scientific paradigm.  Unfortunately as Kuhn explains, it is not until the current paradigm is shown to be inadequate, that most people will even consider a critical view of the paradigm of their time.  We always presume we're the enlightened generation with the real answers, even when our ignorance is pointed out to us.  This is what all humans do, throughout the ages, scientists and religious folk alike--cling to what they believe until they simply cannot so cling anymore.  It's a shame we call this "science" but that's just the way we are.

Offline tamarack

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #88 on: 08/31/2009 10:03 am »
...
This would be unique, as it would be a phyiscal process that nature hasn't achieved. Fission, Fusion, etc, nature does them.
...
So if this lower energy status were possible, would it not dominate the Universe?

BlackLight Power claims to have detected emissions in the high UV / low X-ray spectrum (BlackLight) suggesting three things:
1) Energized Hydrinos emit photons when the e-shells(another topic)return to their base orbit. The papers I've read are fuzzy as to a single, or multiple, stable Hydrino orbits.
2) Empty deep-space and the Sun's corona emit these wavelengths making this a natural-occurrence that was previously unexplained.
3) Since 90% of the Universe is dark matter(another topic) and 90% of known matter in the Universe is Hydrogen, BlackLight theorizes that dark matter is actually Hydrinos, the lowest-energy matter possible.

Offline bad_astra

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #89 on: 02/18/2010 03:04 pm »
Technical presentation was added to their site, yesterday. Interesting reading, I think many would agree:

http://www.blacklightpower.com/presentations/TechnicalPresentation021710.pdf
"Contact Light" -Buzz Aldrin

Offline Zachstar

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #90 on: 02/19/2010 12:06 am »
A presentation with lots of math but where is the real evidence? Why is he not hopping from college to college to prove this?

Maybe its because even if it does work hes got his cozy new bank account full of money from industry that wants to use something or another and like for reasons unrelated to power generation.

The website gets updated what? Once every few months? Heck atleast the "Overunity" people are trying.

People the point is most of the time these people are out to get money and lots of it. Using the internet as a means of amassing suckers is a good way to do it. And even if they don't suddenly fly to a country that does not have extradition treaties with us to "retire" tell me have you seen ONE of these magical devices make it to general market? Where is the "Water Car" where is the "Zero Point Energy" generator in that youtube video? where almost every comment was that this machine was going to break the back of the oil or coal or whatever industry....

Now please don't get me wrong. I do not assume man is god.. The laws of physics stand but that is only because they had broken the "laws" before it. I am fully willing to keep an open mind and hey I might even be interested in investing! But you don't get Investments from sane people when you think a single university is validation. When your website is more about who has "Partnered" with you instead of ways to validate.

You have to understand there has been scam after scam after scam after scam before now.

Offline bad_astra

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #91 on: 01/14/2014 04:41 pm »
Suppsedly (source: http://www.financialpost.com/markets/news/BlackLight+Power+Announces+Game+Changing+Achievement+Generation+Millions/9384649/story.html )
Blacklight will have a live demonstration on the 28th of January.

Research published here:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/er.3142/abstract;jsessionid=E17D2817E628B7C19EF31DAAFAEE57D7.f02t02


I realize this and the LENR stuff is on the margins, and for all I know, 99% of the researches in this field cling to incorrect theories while continuing to plod along in an Edisonian fashion, but in the last 12 months too much has gone on to ignore, and what it may mean to space exploration and colonization is intriguing. I remain skeptical, but open eyed.

"Contact Light" -Buzz Aldrin

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #92 on: 01/14/2014 06:17 pm »
All the validations they listed are about 2 years old somewhat brief. Mills has a long history of overpromising and not delivering. The underlying "theory" is anything but mainstream. I remain extremely skeptical. On the other hand, the power levels they are reporting are quite big. I would certainly like to see what people attending their presentation have to say. Provided they have full access to the equipment and that the presentation keeps running long enough, it should be possible to assess whether there is something to it. I would however require something a lot better than a "Rossi- demo" to even consider them to be real.
Anyone here, who can attend the demo?

Offline aceshigh

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #93 on: 01/15/2014 05:52 pm »
Attend the demo? Am I the only one skeptical enough to doubt they would allow anyone interested to attend the demo? From where Blacklight gets the money to keep running? Probably from charging people that want to attend their demos. I bet you either pay to attend the demo or you are SELECTED from a list of people who subscribed... and they probably make a good selection, only letting in people who will make press and NOT DOUBT their nonsense.

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #94 on: 01/15/2014 06:07 pm »
Attend the demo? Am I the only one skeptical enough to doubt they would allow anyone interested to attend the demo? From where Blacklight gets the money to keep running? Probably from charging people that want to attend their demos. I bet you either pay to attend the demo or you are SELECTED from a list of people who subscribed... and they probably make a good selection, only letting in people who will make press and NOT DOUBT their nonsense.
I agree to be skeptical. They do claim that they will live broadcast it on the web, though. Not sure that means much though. Either way, if I was in the area, I would certainly apply for a seat at the demo. I would probably bring James Randi with me ;)

Offline hop

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #95 on: 01/16/2014 03:14 am »
Back in 2009, it was noted that BLP claimed to have "licensed" their technology to several utilities http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=16535.msg430000#msg430000 (links have broken, but the corresponding press release appear to be available from http://www.blacklightpower.com/press/ )

The suggestion was made that the utilities would begin generating power with BLP tech Real Soon Now and all the naysayers would sit down to a large helping of crow.

Anyone one want to bet that any of those utilities are actually generating power using the BLP system?  ::)

Almost 5 years ago I said it had all the trappings of the a scam. I don't see anything that would cause me to change that opinion.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #96 on: 01/16/2014 08:07 am »
You really just can't get more crackpot than this.

Offline bad_astra

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #97 on: 01/16/2014 03:34 pm »
How long ago did Virgin Galactic start selling seats on their spaceship?

I'll wait for the demo.
"Contact Light" -Buzz Aldrin

Offline hop

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #98 on: 01/16/2014 08:22 pm »
How long ago did Virgin Galactic start selling seats on their spaceship?
This isn't a good analogy at all. Suborbital flight is demonstrably possible, without any new physics. Before VG started selling seats, SS1 showed that it could be done with a vehicle similar to what VG proposed to use. VG is unquestionably building and flying real hardware that has a realistic chance of accomplishing their stated objectives.

That doesn't mean VG will succeed, or that they haven't over-promised or engaged in misleading spin, but it would be very difficult to make the case that VG is an outright scam or crackpot invention.
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I'll wait for the demo.
Highly unlikely a stage managed demo will provide conclusive evidence. This kind of thing is SOP for crackpots and scammers.

Offline sanman

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Re: Blacklight Power
« Reply #99 on: 01/17/2014 05:33 am »
How can you go lower than ground? By definition, ground is the lowest state, and any deviation from it amounts to higher energy potential.

If he's so smart, let's see him build some working device with it.

Their ridiculous lawsuit against the US Patent Office says they're just a bunch of aggressive fast-talkers, just like that Wolf of Wall Street movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackLight_Power#Patents

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BLP holds several patents based on graphic modelling software,[20] but has had problems with other patents. A 2000 patent based on its hydrino-related technology[21][22] was later withdrawn by the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) due to contradictions with known physics laws and other concerns about the viability of the described processes. A column by Robert L. Park[23][24] and an outside query by an unknown person[25] prompted Group Director Kepplinger of the USPTO to review this new patent herself. Kepplinger said that her "main concern was the proposition that the applicant was claiming the electron going to a lower orbital in a fashion that I knew was contrary to the known laws of physics and chemistry", and that the patent appeared to involve cold fusion and perpetual motion.[24] She contacted another Director, Robert Spar, who also expressed doubts on the patentability of the patent application. This caused the USPTO to withdraw from issue the patent application before it was granted and re-open it for review, and to withdraw four related applications, including one for a hydrino power plant.[23] One of the four applications was so near to issuance that it appeared in the USPTO's Gazette as US 6,030,601.[23]

BlackLight filed suit in the US District Court of Columbia, saying that withdrawal of the application after the company had paid the fee was contrary to law. In 2002, the District Court concluded that the USPTO was acting inside the limits of its authority in withdrawing a patent over whose validity it had doubts, and later that year, the United States Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit ratified this decision.[24][25][26][27] Applications were rejected by the UK patent office for similar reasons.[24][28][29][30][31] The European Patent Office (EPO) rejected a similar BLP patent application due to lack of clarity on how the process worked. Reexamination of this European patent is pending.[24]

In 2014 BLP announced having lodged applications for multiple worldwide patents covering power generation systems based on their SF-CIHT cells.[32]

What kind of brazen chutzpah argues that because a patent fee has been paid, that the filer deserves credibility from the Patent Office? Ugh, the stupid, it burns...

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